QBs Drafted to be back ups?

[SCall13]

i still think the problem with this is you guys are just looking at teams depth charts and not the players talent level... matt shaub if hes on the cardinals is probably a starter, but he ends up on atlanta and hes a backup...

but talent wise he has starter skill level... and thats why atlanta would draft him...

again what team wants a backup that cant play in the NFL and have any kind of success, your just asking for trouble

When talking about talent, you also have to keep in mind there is more than one level of talent. There is Marino/Montana talent. There is Peyton Manning/Brett Favre talent. Then you drop down a level to the Daunte Culpepper, Mike Vick, McNabb. Then you drop to another level like Bledsoe, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell. Then yet another drop to the Gus Frerotte, Fiedler, Feeley, Josh McCown. All of the latter mentioned QBs, amongst others, are typical of having backup QB abilities - not starters abilities. These guys are/were starters out of neccessity more than desire of the coaches. (Except Fiedler who was Wanny's boy) Feeley is a backup QB, IMO. And so is Gus. But Gus is a slight level above Feeley.
This is how coaches/GMs/Scouts assess the QBs before they are drafted: what level are they/ will they be. They already know - or have a pretty good idea- where a QB will be skill level wise and what category his will fall in to. The need for servicable back ups is obvious and teams do not hesitate to draft one if the need arises.
I disagree the Schaub is starter material. Not long term. He can manage a few games if Vick were to go down. But he lacks the skill to be a long term starter.
Jim Miller is a good example of a guy who over achieved for a year but is at the level of being a back up QB. He will never be a true starting caliber QB. He never was. he just had one decent season.

 

[Eshlemon]

i still think the problem with this is you guys are just looking at teams depth charts and not the players talent level... matt shaub if hes on the cardinals is probably a starter, but he ends up on atlanta and hes a backup...

but talent wise he has starter skill level... and thats why atlanta would draft him...

again what team wants a backup that cant play in the NFL and have any kind of success, your just asking for trouble

But the threads question was would a team only draft a QB to be the back up. How can anyone vote no when the Atlanta-Schaub situation shows that yes, at least one team would spend a 1rst day draft pick on a backup QB. Doesn't matter if he'd be a starter in Arizona or because Vick is injury prone, the fact is Schaub was drafted to be the backup to Vick.

 

[AZfinfan]

It sounds like regardless what anyone else believes you have made up you mine. And thats fine, you certainly have made some good points. However, I strongly disagree.

 

[inFINSible]

But the threads question was would a team only draft a QB to be the back up. How can anyone vote no when the Atlanta-Schaub situation shows that yes, at least one team would spend a 1rst day draft pick on a backup QB. Doesn't matter if he'd be a starter in Arizona or because Vick is injury prone, the fact is Schaub was drafted to be the backup to Vick.

Two days I've been trying to get this point across....Esh, read what you wrote, please...

Now, think about what I'm saying...Shaub might have been drafted to back-up Vick but, he was also drafted with the idea that he had the talent to be a quality starter if Vick goes down so, the answer is NO, Shaub was not drafted to never be anything more than a back-up. He WAS drafted to be a quality starter if Vick is injured.

Here's another point...."Back-up" is short for "back-up starter" That automatically rules out anyone being drafted to be anything but, an eventual starter. Every team in the league wants there to be no drop off from the starter to the second string starter. If they could make it happen, there'd be no diffrence in the starters and the back-up starters. Is it realistic? Is it fool proof? Is it always going to turn out great? NO, of course not but, if you ever draft anybody thinking he's got no talent to ever be a starter, then you're simply wasting picks.

 

[Trackstar]

Two days I've been trying to get this point across....Esh, read what you wrote, please...

Now, think about what I'm saying...Shaub might have been drafted to back-up Vick but, he was also drafted with the idea that he had the talent to be a quality starter if Vick goes down so, the answer is NO, Shaub was not drafted to never be anything more than a back-up. He WAS drafted to be a quality starter if Vick is injured.

Here's another point...."Back-up" is short for "back-up starter" That automatically rules out anyone being drafted to be anything but, an eventual starter. Every team in the league wants there to be no drop off from the starter to the second string starter. If they could make it happen, there'd be no diffrence in the starters and the back-up starters. Is it realistic? Is it fool proof? Is it always going to turn out great? NO, of course not but, if you ever draft anybody thinking he's got no talent to ever be a starter, then you're simply wasting picks.

I Agree, and to add on to what you just said: They will also draft him with the intent of developing him into a player that is capable of starting for any team, which means he could be traded for another starter. So even if someone, like the falcons who already have Vick, draft a QB it could also be with the belief that if he develops as planned he could be kept as a full time starter or traded.

 

[SCall13]

I Agree, and to add on to what you just said: They will also draft him with the intent of developing him into a player that is capable of starting for any team, which means he could be traded for another starter. So even if someone, like the falcons who already have Vick, draft a QB it could also be with the belief that if he develops as planned he could be kept as a full time starter or traded.

Every player is drafted in HOPES of being developed into a good or great player. But coaches know that isn't always going to happen. In fact, a higher percentage of players drafted after the 3rd round, including QBs are not nearly as successful as players drafted rounds 1-3. When a QB is drafted in the 4th round or later, it is almost always to be a back up. If a coach were to go into a draft and be quoted as saying "We hope to grab us a starting QB in the 4th or 5th round" -we'd all say, "this guy is crazy." But a coach who says we're going into the draft to this, this, this, and pick up a QB in the later rounds to be a back up and contribute in certain situations, then we'd be like -"good idea."
Again, coaches have optimism for any and all of their picks. But they are also realistic and rational. To expect a starting caliber QB to last until the 4th or later rounds, developmental or not, is a crap shoot. It just doesn't normally happen. QBs ARE drafted to be backups.

 

[LarryFinFan]

THis is being argued in anohter thread. My argument is that teams draft QBs in the later round to BE BACKUPS. The coaches/GMs have no real intentions of this guy ever making it past 2nd string. He is drafted for the intentions of only being a backup. THere are plenty of examples.
The other side of the argument is that NO team would ever draft a QB without the intention that the QB will eventually be a starter. I say QBs, like any other position, can be drafted for depth. SOme Teams need backs ups. I mean look at us. We have 3 of them. :D So lets see what everyone thinks....

I think teams draft a QB in the later rounds in the hope that the light's come on for the guy, or the hope that if he spends some time in NFLE he can develop into a solid backup to your #1 guy...But that is the reason for taking ANY player in the later rounds..that he will develop into something better than he appears to be...(ZT in the 5th...Brady in the 6th, etc)....

 

[SCall13]

I think teams draft a QB in the later rounds in the hope that the light's come on for the guy, or the hope that if he spends some time in NFLE he can develop into a solid backup to your #1 guy...But that is the reason for taking ANY player in the later rounds..that he will develop into something better than he appears to be...(ZT in the 5th...Brady in the 6th, etc)....

I agree- that is the hope. But the odds are slim. That is why coaches realize they are drafting backup QBs. THey know what they are getting and then HOPE it can become better.

 

[PhinBeck]

It's funny because I can name quite a few who were drafted this year that, unless they absolutely set the world on fire, are going to be carrying a clipboard for many years to come.

I asm sorry but this is a ridiculous argument that makes no sense. Period. You dont draft someone that you feel will never play for you and not just play due to injury. You draft rookies that you hope develop. Yes in later rounds you expect that many wont start because the odds are against many, especially qbs, from reaching the mountain. But teams that need backup can get them cheaply in FA. They dont draft a guy because they want him to backup for ten years, they are hoping to find an unpolished gem that they can mold and develop into a very solid player. NE didnt take Brady because they felt he carried a good clipboard. They drafted him because they saw some skills, tho raw, thought he could develop with the right tuteledge. Were they banking their future on him? No. neither was Reid when he drafted AJ, but he saw some talent and where they went in teh draft thought their talent was worth taking a chance on. Oh and teams will take a flyer on a qb they think has some talent and develop that talent and get value from them in trade because they know the value of talented qbs.

Teams DO NOT draft a player that they feel wiill NEVER develop into a starter, it is a wasted pick. Backup FA qbs that are career backups are a dime a dozen.

 

[PhinBeck]

Every player is drafted in HOPES of being developed into a good or great player. But coaches know that isn't always going to happen. In fact, a higher percentage of players drafted after the 3rd round, including QBs are not nearly as successful as players drafted rounds 1-3. When a QB is drafted in the 4th round or later, it is almost always to be a back up. If a coach were to go into a draft and be quoted as saying "We hope to grab us a starting QB in the 4th or 5th round" -we'd all say, "this guy is crazy." But a coach who says we're going into the draft to this, this, this, and pick up a QB in the later rounds to be a back up and contribute in certain situations, then we'd be like -"good idea."
Again, coaches have optimism for any and all of their picks. But they are also realistic and rational. To expect a starting caliber QB to last until the 4th or later rounds, developmental or not, is a crap shoot. It just doesn't normally happen. QBs ARE drafted to be backups.

Yes they know it isnt always going to happen, they are realistic. But they dont say, " I really dont believe this kid will ever be able to start in this league ever but I will draft him cause he may make a decent backup" to do that would be to pass on a guy they thought had a chance of being a solid starter. What, you think all those late rd picks at all those positions, those coaches basically were shocked when they developed into great players?

 

[SCall13]

I asm sorry but this is a ridiculous argument that makes no sense. Period. You dont draft someone that you feel will never play for you and not just play due to injury. You draft rookies that you hope develop. Yes in later rounds you expect that many wont start because the odds are against many, especially qbs, from reaching the mountain. But teams that need backup can get them cheaply in FA. They dont draft a guy because they want him to backup for ten years, they are hoping to find an unpolished gem that they can mold and develop into a very solid player. NE didnt take Brady because they felt he carried a good clipboard. They drafted him because they saw some skills, tho raw, thought he could develop with the right tuteledge. Were they banking their future on him? No. neither was Reid when he drafted AJ, but he saw some talent and where they went in teh draft thought their talent was worth taking a chance on. Oh and teams will take a flyer on a qb they think has some talent and develop that talent and get value from them in trade because they know the value of talented qbs.

Teams DO NOT draft a player that they feel wiill NEVER develop into a starter, it is a wasted pick. Backup FA qbs that are career backups are a dime a dozen.

HOPING HOPING HOPING. Keyword. QBs are drafted to be back up QBs. There is no way around it. It happens. Whether you agree or not has nothing to do with it. Sure, like I have said, all coaches want to "polish" their player, regardless of it's a QB or OT. But just like ANY position, teams need depth at QB. If they turn out to be diamonds in the rough, great. But that isn't the only hope of a team that drafts a QB late. Their biggest and first hope is to draft someone who can manage an offense for them for a few game...and yes, improve. Obviously they want them to improve. But like I have said in other posts, some guys top out at a certain ability and that is it. He will be a servicable back up and that is all. Much like...let's see...dare I say....AJ Feeley.

 

[SCall13]

Yes they know it isnt always going to happen, they are realistic. But they dont say, " I really dont believe this kid will ever be able to start in this league ever but I will draft him cause he may make a decent backup" to do that would be to pass on a guy they thought had a chance of being a solid starter. What, you think all those late rd picks at all those positions, those coaches basically were shocked when they developed into great players?

Not all teams pass on a better player to do this. If a team has a need as more deoth at QB, they will draft a QB to add that depth. WOuld you want Vick playing without a backup? McNabb? Of course not -so you use a later round pick to fill a need: a back up QB. People, it really happens all the time.

 

[PhinBeck]

HOPING HOPING HOPING. Keyword. QBs are drafted to be back up QBs. There is no way around it. It happens. Whether you agree or not has nothing to do with it. Sure, like I have said, all coaches want to "polish" their player, regardless of it's a QB or OT. But just like ANY position, teams need depth at QB. If they turn out to be diamonds in the rough, great. But that isn't the only hope of a team that drafts a QB late. Their biggest and first hope is to draft someone who can manage an offense for them for a few game...and yes, improve. Obviously they want them to improve. But like I have said in other posts, some guys top out at a certain ability and that is it. He will be a servicable back up and that is all. Much like...let's see...dare I say....AJ Feeley.

You dont hope he turns out to be a starter and then say he was drafted to be a backup. Dude common sense? anyone? Common sense? is it present? Eeven if a coach think that the most likely result is that qb would be a backup, he see some talent that tells him he could possibly play. Just because a qb is drafted and isnt annoited the future at the draft, doesnt mean that he is to be a backup only, that the coach thought he would never be able to play.

I am sorry but you dont draft a player hoping he never has to play. Drafting a qb to only be a backup forever is saying exactly that. Most teams also want a solid vet as their backup. Teams dont want their starters to go out, so if you draft a qb to be a backup, you hope he never plays, what exactly is his value then? If you dont think he can start, then he doesnt have value.

 

[PhinBeck]

Not all teams pass on a better player to do this. If a team has a need as more deoth at QB, they will draft a QB to add that depth. WOuld you want Vick playing without a backup? McNabb? Of course not -so you use a later round pick to fill a need: a back up QB. People, it really happens all the time.

So you think Atl would go into a panic if Vick got hurt? No because they have a guy they are confident in that can come in and start a full season and play well and keep them in contention/make them contenders. Vick went down with injury for most of 2003, they had no other starting calibur qb on their roster, they blew. Shaub was drafted to be a career backup? Wanna bet he isnt always a backup? That he gets a chance to start at some point in his career?

I am sorry your argument is wrong, it is sorry. You are right that many or even a majority of late rds qbs are never anymore than backups, but that is because they didnt develop, so be it, they took a chance, it didnt work, hge didnt develop into a starting calibur qb, it happens, but that isnt saying that is what teh coach wanted when he drafted him, you dont draft a guy hoping or even thinking this guy cant become a starting calibur player.

If you need a backup qb because you dont have one, you dont look for him in the 5th and 6th rds, you go and sign a vet FA, not depend on a raw kid that isnt polished even as a college qb.

 

[SCall13]

You dont hope he turns out to be a starter and then say he was drafted to be a backup. Dude common sense? anyone? Common sense? is it present? Eeven if a coach think that the most likely result is that qb would be a backup, he see some talent that tells him he could possibly play. Just because a qb is drafted and isnt annoited the future at the draft, doesnt mean that he is to be a backup only, that the coach thought he would never be able to play.

I am sorry but you dont draft a player hoping he never has to play. Drafting a qb to only be a backup forever is saying exactly that. Most teams also want a solid vet as their backup. Teams dont want their starters to go out, so if you draft a qb to be a backup, you hope he never plays, what exactly is his value then? If you dont think he can start, then he doesnt have value.

I hate repeating myself. YOu should read all the posts before you come in to something and only catch part of it.
A coach will draft a QB to be a back up QB nad he will HOPE that he turns out to be even better. But his initial intentions will be to have him as a back up. It happens. Really it does. ALL the time. Common sense? Common SENSE? This has nothing to do with common sense. IT has to do with the fact the QBs are drafted to be backups. ANything more out of those QBs are a bonus. According to the poll 65% agree that this is the case, so I must be onto something...