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Question From a Lions Fan

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Detroit1811

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As a Detroit fan and with everything that's being talked from the front office and head coaches, we know this year is all about purging this roster and building for the future. With that said I wanted to get some opinions from Dolphins fans of a trade idea I floated on a Lions forum. The Dolphins are clearly on the upswing, and if Tua takes a step forward this year you guys should have a real shot at making the playoffs. There are two guys on our roster that I think would make a really good fit for you guys, Trey Flowers and Jamie Collins. Both guys are still playing at a pretty high level (especially Flowers), have played for Flores, would have no trouble fitting into that defense, and happen to fill the most pressing needs on that defense. Plus I do know that Flores had a ton of interest in Flowers in free agency, so you know he is a big fan. For us they do not fit in our long term plans. We are a team looking 2-3 years down the line and Collins would be 33ish by then (and contract would be up) and Flowers contract would be up. As a Lions fan taking a realistic approach, getting their contracts off our books and some draft capital for them is the best long term approach. With the Lions taking on all their dead money from signing bonus's, their base salaries are not crazy for the players they still are. Also you guys would have plenty of cap space to take on their contracts.

www.spotrac.com

Trey Flowers

Trey Flowers contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

www.spotrac.com

Jamie Collins

Jamie Collins contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

I would think as a fan getting Pro Bowl edge rusher who is only 27 (Trey Flowers) would be really enticing. Also getting a LB'er in Collins (31) who is extremely versatile, and coming off a couple pretty good seasons is appealing. That would make you guys really flexible on your approach in the draft filling probably the two biggest defensive needs. So my question is as fans, would you be on board with a move like this? If so what is the most draft capital you would be willing to give up? Is this something that seems way off and has no chance of coming to fruition?

My thought process was the mid second rounder would be reasonable compensation for both sides. You guys would still have your two first rounders, plus that high second. On top of that you guys are in really good position to trade down from #3 and still get a top WR or OT and potentially pick up that second rounder back and more.
 
I rather not trade for a guy in Flowers who is paid like a top 5 DE but does not produce like a top 5 DE. Thats a hard pass especially when we can just use that mid second rounder for a younger cheaper player. If nothing else I rather save the pick and get a DE in free agency who can give me 6-7 sacks and won't cost $16M a year.

Collins being 31 is the opposite of the what were trying to build so I don't see any reason to go this route.

Ultimately we have enough picks and money to utilize the draft or free agency so I don't see the need for this trade especially with the price tag these players come with.
 
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I like Flowers, but not at that price. Detroit gave him too much money.
 
He would make 14mil this year and 16mil the following two. He hasn't had the sack numbers here, but he can been a consistent force off the edge and against the run. Lions defense is very barren and its tough to get sacks when the secondary can't cover and they have nobody at DT to take of double teams.

I do understand the preference to go younger and cheaper though.

Also Kenny Golladay could be an option. It is possible they let him walk, but I think they at least tag him and either keep him on a one year deal or trade him. He was a little old for a rookie so he's entering FA at 27, and this team might not want to invest long term in a WR that age who is gonna cost a lot of money. I could see him being tagged and flipped for a 2nd.
 
Sending draft capitol for overpriced players is something we would have done in the past. Not sure it fits what we are doing now in the front office. Now if you were to cut those players and they were available via free agency where we could negotiate a better price tag then I'd be all for kicking those tires.
 
I'm of the view that both players, Flowers and Collins are very good and come with a Patriot heritage playing under Coach Flo. However, the bigger problem for the Dolphins to address now is finding the specific offensive weapons for Tua to get the Offense rolling. With the exception of the awful final season game against the Bills, we have a pretty decent Defense (top 5). Big money was invested in Kyle Van Noy to help build the culture that Coach Flo wants. With limitations on expenditure, via the salary cap, to just keep spending huge on Defense and not look at Offense, especially in a year when the salary cap declines significantly, seems out of balance. This is about extracting value with good Draft selection, not just about spending big on established players.
 
Flowers is over paid for his production. It seemed like Detroit and Matt Patricia threw money at him to keep him from going to Miami, who were also in pursuit.

Not sure I'd want to take on that contract with everything that potentially happening with a cap reduction. Good player, but not interested.
 
I don’t think Grier’s business model is about paying top dollar for older, high priced free agents on long term deals. Those days are over.
 
Well this definitely gives me better perspective on what the fan base thinks. On the outside looking in, you guys were pretty good with below average play from Tua most of the year. If he can take a step forward, and you guys fill out some needs on the defense you guys could compete for a wild card spot at least. Filling out the defense with veterans, and trading down to say 8 and taking one of the top three guys that are left at WR (Chase/Smith Waddle) or Pitts would be a nice start. Say Pitts at #8, then an OT at #19 (T Christian Darrisaw), and finishing off with someone like Kadarious Toney at the top of the 2nd. I think that would be one hell of an off-season, IMO.
 
Not really interested as I don't see either as enough of an upgrade to use draft capital and kill cap space. Now, I would be good having a conversation about Ragnow
 
How did Flowers do in Detroit? I didn't follow the Lions. Collins is too old.

I could see Miami having some interest in Flowers, but likely for a lower draft pick, maybe a 6th.

I don't mean that to be insulting, but that's based on taking on a big salary.
 
Detroit1811 said:
As a Detroit fan and with everything that's being talked from the front office and head coaches, we know this year is all about purging this roster and building for the future. With that said I wanted to get some opinions from Dolphins fans of a trade idea I floated on a Lions forum. The Dolphins are clearly on the upswing, and if Tua takes a step forward this year you guys should have a real shot at making the playoffs. There are two guys on our roster that I think would make a really good fit for you guys, Trey Flowers and Jamie Collins. Both guys are still playing at a pretty high level (especially Flowers), have played for Flores, would have no trouble fitting into that defense, and happen to fill the most pressing needs on that defense. Plus I do know that Flores had a ton of interest in Flowers in free agency, so you know he is a big fan. For us they do not fit in our long term plans. We are a team looking 2-3 years down the line and Collins would be 33ish by then (and contract would be up) and Flowers contract would be up. As a Lions fan taking a realistic approach, getting their contracts off our books and some draft capital for them is the best long term approach. With the Lions taking on all their dead money from signing bonus's, their base salaries are not crazy for the players they still are. Also you guys would have plenty of cap space to take on their contracts.

www.spotrac.com

Trey Flowers

Trey Flowers contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

www.spotrac.com

Jamie Collins

Jamie Collins contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

I would think as a fan getting Pro Bowl edge rusher who is only 27 (Trey Flowers) would be really enticing. Also getting a LB'er in Collins (31) who is extremely versatile, and coming off a couple pretty good seasons is appealing. That would make you guys really flexible on your approach in the draft filling probably the two biggest defensive needs. So my question is as fans, would you be on board with a move like this? If so what is the most draft capital you would be willing to give up? Is this something that seems way off and has no chance of coming to fruition?

My thought process was the mid second rounder would be reasonable compensation for both sides. You guys would still have your two first rounders, plus that high second. On top of that you guys are in really good position to trade down from #3 and still get a top WR or OT and potentially pick up that second rounder back and more.
Click to expand...

The 1st hurdle is, i think, Miami won't be in the high-priced player market. 2nd, I think DET would want too much in return. Not a bad idea, but I suspect there's no acceptable middle ground
 
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