Quinn & Russell vs. Top Defenses | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Quinn & Russell vs. Top Defenses

Da 'Fins said:
Don't know what your background is.

My background is an M.A. in Economics and work in government auditing - as well as statistical analysis related to both sports salaries and the Public Choice field (extra work done for a professor while I was working on my M.A.).

I've also spent some time talking medical data (hence the analogical reference) with two close friends - one with a PHD in Biostatistics; the other an MD who is finishing up 6 extra years of work in specialized cancer research.
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I was curious because of your mention of Econometrics. I've got a B.A. in Economics from Georgetown and work as an Equity Research Analyst at Raymond James Financial for a 10-man team that manages $5.5 billion of institutional and high net worth assets in small and mid cap stocks.

I have a strong enough background in statistics, especially in my job, to pretty much disregard your criticisms as insignificant. The criticisms you mounted can be said literally about every conclusion or observation ever made about any two players in comparison with each other, because the conditions will never be exactly the same.
 
UF Fin Kat said:
yes, just ask ken dorsey!
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If there's 2 minutes left in a game and my team is down by 5, I would take dorsey as my QB over quinn, that's for damn sure.

everybody knew dorsey didn't have fantastic arm strength, had a phenomenal supporting cast, and a great defense. but dorsey also had poise in the pocket, and stepped up in big games, despite not having great arm strength. Dorsey actually hasn't even played that bad considering he was on the worst team in the NFL for 3 years, and now on another terrible team. Let's see how good Quinn is when he gets drafted by a terrible team.
 
kpcane said:
If there's 2 minutes left in a game and my team is down by 5, I would take dorsey as my QB over quinn, that's for damn sure.

everybody knew dorsey didn't have fantastic arm strength, had a phenomenal supporting cast, and a great defense. but dorsey also had poise in the pocket, and stepped up in big games, despite not having great arm strength. Dorsey actually hasn't even played that bad considering he was on the worst team in the NFL for 3 years, and now on another terrible team. Let's see how good Quinn is when he gets drafted by a terrible team.
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LOL. Like Dorsey is an NFL QB.
 
kpcane said:
If there's 2 minutes left in a game and my team is down by 5, I would take dorsey as my QB over quinn, that's for damn sure.

everybody knew dorsey didn't have fantastic arm strength, had a phenomenal supporting cast, and a great defense. but dorsey also had poise in the pocket, and stepped up in big games, despite not having great arm strength. Dorsey actually hasn't even played that bad considering he was on the worst team in the NFL for 3 years, and now on another terrible team. Let's see how good Quinn is when he gets drafted by a terrible team.
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Dude c'mon...I cant believe you said that. I was a Dorsey fan myself when he was at the "U". But you honestly cant compare him to Quinn, get with it man. Youre livin in denial here!
 
Boomer said:
If in doubt, be faecitious.

:rolleyes2

The point being, that to compare Dorsey to Quinn is like comparing Avril Lavigne to The Beatles.
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I always wondered how to spell that word :D
 
Finsfan1984 said:
Dude c'mon...I cant believe you said that. I was a Dorsey fan myself when he was at the "U". But you honestly cant compare him to Quinn, get with it man. Youre livin in denial here!
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"get with it"? I didn't bring Dorsey into the conversation, and I'm not comparing him to Quinn. All I'm saying is Dorsey was clutch when he needed to be. I never said he was a great QB, I never said he had superior talents, and I never said he'll make it in the NFL. But then again, I feel the same way about Quinn.
 
Boomer said:
If in doubt, be faecitious.

:rolleyes2

The point being, that to compare Dorsey to Quinn is like comparing Avril Lavigne to The Beatles.
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if in doubt be facetious? what the....

are you the one in doubt, because I certainly wasn't being facetious. I can compare the poise of QBs under pressure if I want to. Just because Quinn is garbage with the game on the line, doesn't mean that he can't be compared to a guy who actually won a national title (and should have won 2).
 
kpcane said:
"get with it"? I didn't bring Dorsey into the conversation, and I'm not comparing him to Quinn. All I'm saying is Dorsey was clutch when he needed to be. I never said he was a great QB, I never said he had superior talents, and I never said he'll make it in the NFL. But then again, I feel the same way about Quinn.
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Hey man, Im not putting words into your mouth...You did compare Dorsey to Quinn, and by doing that, you are saying in essence that you think he has better/superior talents.

Like I said, I too liked Dorsey, but I would never compare his "NFL" Potential to that of Quinns. Never!!!
 
am I taking crazy pills or isn't this:

Finsfan1984 said:
you are saying in essence that...
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putting words in someone else's mouth?

I NEVER compared NFL talents between the two. In fact, all I was saying was that Dorsey was never considered a great QB, but when the game was on the line he stepped up. It's not that complicated of an argument.
 
kpcane said:
if in doubt be facetious? what the....

are you the one in doubt, because I certainly wasn't being facetious. I can compare the poise of QBs under pressure if I want to. Just because Quinn is garbage with the game on the line, doesn't mean that he can't be compared to a guy who actually won a national title (and should have won 2).
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When is Quinn "garbage" with the game on the line?
 
Da 'Fins said:
No, I don't think you've understood the crux of the criticism unless you factor in all the points. However, the fact that you consider them insignificant is a non-argument. It it is a rhetorical dismissal, but not an argument, that they could be used to discard any statistical evidence. This is simply not the case.

The fact is, the two points you note do invalidate the study. If you can't see that, I think you are being emotionally defensive of your own post. To stretch the logic - if Brady were playing against Division II, points/game would be meaningless - we understand that clearly. But, then you have conferences that are stronger in some years than others. However, even if 1 is granted as a non-factor, #2 is a factor because of the significantly small # of games you are factoring in. If you had 10 games against 10 common opponents, that would be a better factor. Or, if you had the last two years, even better.

Ultimately, no legitimate statistician in the world would take anything significant from your analysis. I'd have been laughed out of class if I had presented something like that in my old Econometrics classes.

These are equivalent to the arguments that people make about some natural ingredient that will prevent or help cure cancer. There is anecdotal evidence but it does not rise to validity b/c of the lack of consistent statistical data over a large number of people.

And, you also failed to factor in the distinctions between how Auburn played against LSU versus other quarterbacks. Florida and Auburn both had great defenses, playing at home, who rose to the occasion in highly emotional games.

It's a nice try, but your info makes no argument from a statistical viewpoint. 3 games against uncommon opponents with defenses difficult to compare across conferences do not make a valid argument.

It's purely anecdotal. It's interesting. It may or may not say something. But, ultimately not something one can give much credence to.

Film study of each player in these and other games and the game situation play is what will really tell the true story. Statistical evidence can give us robust data - much closer to a good statistic.
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I'm no statistician (unless you count 2 classes of upper division biostatistics that I took for pre-med requirements), but as far as the baseless arguments made by people who claim that Russell has played far greater competition than Quinn who they claim played against all easy teams, these stats yield a bit more credence. But at best it's like comparing 0.1 over 0. Not much but still something.

It's pretty much impossible to compare the two statistically considering the lack of commonality and almost non-existant sample size. But again, compared to the "Quinn had too easy of a competition/sucks against non-easy opponents" arguments, it carries a bit more weight.
 
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