You must have missed the win over #3 Michigan, 2x vs Tennessee who were ranked in the top 5 and top 10 respectively, etc. And last time I looked, USC have been in the top 3 for about the past 5 years and have won 2 National Championships.
Quinn & Russell vs. Top Defenses
- Thread starter ckparrothead
- Start date
You must have missed the win over #3 Michigan, 2x vs Tennessee who were ranked in the top 5 and top 10 respectively, etc. And last time I looked, USC have been in the top 3 for about the past 5 years and have won 2 National Championships.
I doubt anybody missed those wins. What I saw, and many informed and knowledgeable football fans saw was a victory over a Michigan team, whose defense was putrid. It was just awful. It was so bad that the defensive coordinator was fired at the end of the season. Interestingly, this soft defense, whose biggest weakness was its secondary, basically shut down Quinn as the game progressed. It was the same secondary that struggled against other lesser know Qbs throughout the season.
Tell me Boomer, how did Quinn fare in his other games versus Michigan?
Ah I see. Now the goalposts are moving. The question was, how did Quinn do in big games? All of a sudden, when you get proven wrong, you need to shift the emphasis to prove your point.
But hell, this is your classic tactic.
No posts are moving Boomer; if they are I suggest you get the peepers checked out mate; they may be interfering with your evaluation of game tape.
The question was indeed how Quinn performed in big games. You quoted Michigan in 2005. I was just looking out for you pal. I'm sure you wanted to be as accurate as possible. In the spirit of accuracy, I simply wanted to note that you had overlooked what took place in that game. SInce you say you watch so much game tape of Quinn, I'm sure you already knew this. If you don't have the tape of the 2005 game, I'll gladly send you a copy. You can credit me on Paypal.
Is that another one of your propaganda DVD's? You still at the iamfactuallyincorrectandhavenoargument@hotmail.com e-mail addy?
You must have been asleep when he beat 20th ranked Pitt, 5th ranked Michigan, 24th ranked Michigan State, 9th ranked Tennessee, 3rd ranked Michigan, 23rd ranked Pitt, 22nd ranked Purdue, lost on a miracle 4th and 9 to number 1 ranked USC, Tennessee again, 19th ranked Penn State, 17th ranked MSU and a UCLA team that stopped #2 ranked USC from going to the BCS Title Game.
So the argument that he can't win a big game is pretty stupid.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Listen, I think some people are really misunderstanding the scope of this study, especially Da Fins here. This isn't my once-and-for-all proof that Brady Quinn is the end-all, be-all of quarterback prospects. This isn't even a proof that Brady Quinn is better than Jamarcus Russell.
An active criticism about Brady Quinn is that he performs poorly during games against quality defense.
I'm not talking about the "plays bad during big games" thing. I'm talking about how some people think that when Quinn goes up against a good defense, he performs poorly from a personal responsibility perspective (e.g. throwing interceptions, not completing passes, not pushing the ball down the field, not scoring TDs, etc).
All this study was meant to show was that if you're going to go with that criticism against Brady Quinn, you have to recognize that the criticism is just as sharp, if not sharper, against Jamarcus Russell. That's it.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Yikes. You're awful sharp this morning. Would hate to argue against you right now...
EDIT: Sharp as in you're on top of your game. I'd hate to argue with you when you're on top of your game, would just make me look bad...
1) Yes, Michigan was ranked #3 at the time, but ended up with 5 losses and unranked in both polls. Bottom line - Michigan was vastly overrated, and they were not as great as their #3 ranking. Therefore - this was not a big game.
2) Yeah he went into Tennessee and beat a pretty good team in 2004. Tennessee was #9 going into the game, and finished at #13. A good win.
The second time he beat them, he beat an unranked, non-bowl eligible team. They were unranked when they played them, and finished the season unranked. Not sure where this 'top 5 and top 10' is coming from.
3) Yeah USC was pretty good. Not good enough for Vince Young and even (gulp) Aaron Rodgers. You want to say that Aaron Rodgers had a better supporting cast than Quinn?
4 years, 1 big win, 0 bowl wins. Hmm...sign him up.
So the ranking at the time of the game is all that matters? Hell, let's credit FSU with it's huge win over #12 miami last year, and clemson with it's huge win over #10 FSU last year. Obviously, FSU and Miami, were NOT the 10th and 12th best teams at the country. Polls in the beginning of the year mean nothing. He only beat MSU and UCLA last year because of absolutely horrific coaching. I didn't watch the MSU game, but it was so bad, that they were calling for the coach's head after the game. The UCLA game - whew. The UCLA coach handed Notre Dame the game. He looked like a deer in headlights. He called the most conservative gameplan in the waning minutes I have ever seen. He gave Quinn multiple opportunities against his prevent defense. And as the saying goes - the only thing a prevent defense does is prevent wins. Quinn should never have been losing to UCLA in the first place.
Did you just say anything of importance? Man, and you're on the other guy for not knowing how to defend himself :rolleyes2
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Care to clarify here? Which argument are you taking? That Brady Quinn does not perform well during big GAMES, or that Brady Quinn does not perform well against good defenses?
If Michigan is ranked #3 at the time Notre Dame plays them, you can DAMN WELL expect everyone in South Bend were treating it like the biggest damn game of the year, at the time they were playing them.
And if you want to know how Quinn did against good defenses in general, you can just scroll right up and read the first post in this thread.
Either way, this argument you've made here is defunct.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
It is extremely germane to the theory that Brady Quinn sucks during "big games".
If Miami hosts, let's say, the Raiders in Week 3 of the 2007 NFL season...at the time they play the Raiders, they're probably considering the Raiders to be a pretty bad team.
But what if the Raiders end up going 12-4 and doing some damage in the playoffs? Does that game become argument that Miami "can't win big games"?
Fact of the matter is the Raiders game would NOT have been a big game at the time we played it because nobody thought the Raiders were anything special.
The opposite is true of games like the Michigan and Tennessee games. If the argument is that Brady Quinn chokes when he plays a big team, how does it really matter that Michigan ended the season unranked after playing Notre Dame while ranked #3? Really, how does that matter? All Notre Dame and Brady Quinn know, heading into that game, is that they're playing the #3 team in the country...a game for the ages, a game where nobody is giving them a chance to win.
So all the sudden, winning a game under those circumstances just gets tossed out the window, simply because it's convenient to you?
What's a big game if the team is overrated? Either the quality is there or it isn't. A big game by definition is playing a great team.
All you're talking about is the hype surrounding the game. This does not matter. It is the quality of the opponent.
To answer your Oakland and Miami analogy - the answer is yes, that Miami could not win big games. If Oakland was great and Miami could not beat them, the answer is pretty apparent.