ckparrothead
Premium Member
I would rather have Rivers too. He's the future for this team. He is the real deal, not a system QB. A system QB doesn't rack up a 9.3 yard per attempt on 4400 yards in the defense-tough ACC.
Ramsey is in the cards
- Thread starter SMadison29
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Phin19
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If the redskins let Ramsey go to grab Brunell. they are making a big mistake, which is good for us :D
i`d love to have Ramsey in the dolphins. i prefer him over Rivers cause he`s proven that he is good. we still don`t know how Rivers is gonna do in the NFL
I hope we get Ramsey (this is a good chance the Reds are giving) and draft Rivers if possible. that`d be superb
i`d love to have Ramsey in the dolphins. i prefer him over Rivers cause he`s proven that he is good. we still don`t know how Rivers is gonna do in the NFL
I hope we get Ramsey (this is a good chance the Reds are giving) and draft Rivers if possible. that`d be superb
SMadison29
What Sherman aspires to be
Rivers has decent pocket awareness but he'd get killed too. At least we already know that Ramsey can take a beating.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Thats a pretty bold statement. I'm as forgiving to Ramsey for putting up with Spurrier's offense as anyone, but I doubt that "no QB" could perform well in that system with that kind of talent in the WR corp and a tackle tandem like Jansen and Samuels.
BTW be careful when you toss around the word "proven" about Ramsey. All he's really proven so far is that he can take a bunch of sacks and not turn in any pro bowl performances. We could forgive him for that cuz of circumstances, but that doesn't mean he's PROVEN anything other than he has a lot of talent that hasn't been balled up into a consistent talent, and that a football guru like Joe Gibbs doesn't trust him to lead his football team. Again I love Ramsey too but lets be fair here.
In college he was known as a guy that held onto the ball too long. In the pros he held onto the ball too long. Did he prove anything beyond the fact that he's got a great arm, talent, and will hold onto the football too long? Not really, those are things we knew about him coming out of college.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Its a pretty valid concern SMadison29. Ramsey is known for holding onto the ball too long, was known for that in college and is known for it in the NFL. Put him behind a shoddy OL like ours, and OUCH. Rivers has never been known as a guy that gets sacked a lot though.
Still I think this talk of Rivers leading us in his first year is kinda not realistic. I'm all for it if our choices are between him and Fiedler (or Griese) because I'd rather get the rookie some experience if all things are equal, and with Fiedler at the helm we have a snowballs chance in he|| of doing anything meaningfull for the season except assuring ourselves the #17 through #23 position in the draft order.
Still I think this talk of Rivers leading us in his first year is kinda not realistic. I'm all for it if our choices are between him and Fiedler (or Griese) because I'd rather get the rookie some experience if all things are equal, and with Fiedler at the helm we have a snowballs chance in he|| of doing anything meaningfull for the season except assuring ourselves the #17 through #23 position in the draft order.
Maybe I should've used "no YOUNG QB" in that sentence, because that's actually what I meant. Of course a veteran QB might be different in the system, because they've worked in the NFL already, but under Spurrier's system, it is very poor for an inexperience QB to work in.
The word "proven" was being used in comparison to Rivers. Ramsey is more proven than Rivers because he has shown he can be great in the league, while Rivers hasn't played one NFL game yet. It was directed to people who would rather have Rivers than Ramsey. That was basically the point of my post, not to show that Ramsey should be starting for Miami.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I really don't think Ramsey has shown that. Again he's shown some of his assets, but he's also shown some of his weaknesses. When a guy struggles in a bad offense even if they show flashes of talent like he has, you can't say he's PROVEN or actually shown that he can be great. You don't say that til he packages everything together, which to this point Ramsey has not done.
I would rather have Rivers than Ramsey. Rivers is a better prospect for the future IMO than Ramsey. Just harping on what Ramsey has or has not proven that Rivers has not is kind of not a complete argument...because by that logic, Eli Manning hasn't PROVEN anything yet. Neither has Ben Roethlisberger. Yet if you asked 32 GMs if they had a top pick in the draft, a need at QB, and the ability to either draft Manning or trade for Ramsey, I'd be willing to bet that like 31 of 32 say Manning (there's always one odd ball).
Would San Diego, who needs a QB, trade the #1 pick for Ramsey? Very very very doubtful...
DeDolfan
Practice Squad
We can not trade ogun. He is not under contract.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Yes we can. We can do a sign and trade. Been done before, can easily do it again.
DeDolfan
Practice Squad
CK, i don't recall anyone saying that Rivers would start right away, ie next yr. Get him now, let him deveolope so he is ready to go when Wanny et al is finally gone.
Nobody is expecting Ramsey to "package everything together" yet. The guy is 24 years old with plenty of NFL left in him. He has experience in the NFL and has the potential to be great. You can't deny that. That's the only point I'm making; He has had great spurts where he has made the great passes and made the great decisions during his career already and those are worth pointing out, because it clearly shows that potential. If it didn't, then why do teams harp about him and what kind of QB he could be?
Yes, it is a complete argument. No disrespect to any QB in the draft, but it's a clear fact that none of them have proven their NFL skills yet. No player in the NFL Draft has yet. Ramsey, however, has proven he can take on the NFL. He has shown he is not a complete bust, and you can't say that about anybody in the draft, because any of them could turn into a bust. While it is not likely, it is still possible. The names Ryan Leaf, Eric Crouch and Andre Ware come to mind, because all 3 were hyped to be great QBs in the NFL, but none of them turned out that way.
We are not talking about Eli Manning, we are talking about Philip Rivers. Eli has shown better skills and intangibles than Rivers, so obviously more teams are going to hype him over Rivers, and for good reason. Besides, many teams look at Eli and see the next Peyton, and some of them even conclude that he can be even better! These same teams have actually questioned Rivers and his delivery, and how it could go against him in the NFL, and those are one of the things keeping his stock value from raising too high.
Again, you're taking it off topic. We're talking about the possibility of Miami acquiring Ramsey, not San Diego. And furthermore, Miami would not trade a #1 pick for Ramsey. Some people think it's reasonable, but I don't, and Miami certainly shouldn't, either.
DeDolfan
Practice Squad
But that's not what was talked about really. We'd have to tender him first and hOPE we could match to keep him. Otherwise we'd have to put a huge offer on the table for him to sign which in all likelyhood a big one to get him to sign only to have the deal fall thru cuz the other team thinks it's too high. IMO, i would rather tender Ogun and hope Gibbs signs him and we get the #5 pick. that would be alot better than Ramsey and we'd be in good position for a definite QB, maybe even Eli or Ben. I think alot of sign and trades are previously worked out ahead of time with stipulations that the signing would be limited in total $$$. You'd have to have both teams and the player/agent involved in it. Alot of if's involved!
Snickersbps
Pro Bowler
or another option with Ogun would be to have a three way agreement on the contract between Miami, Ogun, and the team interested. This way, he signs a contract that the receiving team has a approved and helped put together. More likely than not, Miami wouldnt have much to do with the contract agreements at all. Just as long as they dont get the short end of the stick
DeDolfan
Practice Squad
True but then again, why not let ogun go to that team, make his deal and the Fins would then have the option. That would seem to be less confusing.