RE-thinking Eugene Monroe & The OL? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

RE-thinking Eugene Monroe & The OL?

Southbeach 2 said:
Do you belive that someone on the fringe, who isn't bad should be our first round pick? For me, I'm not sure I would take him in the second round, and would take Hurst over him.
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I think we over analyze what is needed in a ZB OL. He's essentially Jake Long lite, it's hardly square peg round hole. I personally wouldn't take him at #19 unless most of my options are off the board or we don't address a tackle spot in FA. Second round I'd run to the podium, I'm as high on Hurst as anyone (he's my #4 OT) but you can't disregard Lewan's talent and power.
 
123phins said:
Well really what is athleticism? Footwork, speed, strenght, and technique to me are all a part of athleticism
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A guy isn't gonna get that much faster or improve his foot speed all that much, that's why natural athleticism is so highly valued. Usually when I look at a guy I'm trying to figure out what his technique is like and if it's bad if he's athletic and smart enough to overcome it. You fix technique, once guys get to the NFL they're not really developing physically nearly as much and you have a rough idea of how physically gifted they are. An unathletic guy isn't gonna become athletic all of a sudden from a variety of drills.
 
FearTheBeard said:
To a degree....but for the most part what you see is what you get regarding athleticism once these guys are coming out. No drills or workouts are going to make a guy that much more athletic, stronger ya but aside from that not much. Technique and all that other stuff is a lot more coachable.
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IF you figured out a way to coach athleticism, I REALLY want to be your partner as we can split a BILLION dollars.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
IF you figured out a way to coach athleticism, I REALLY want to be your partner as we can split a BILLION dollars.
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Haha I'm agreeing with you man. You can make guys a bit more flexibile, a little more explosive but in reality it's not gonna change them much as a prospect, especially regarding an OL. The biggest thing you can fix is technique and strength with the guys coming out.
 
FearTheBeard said:
A guy isn't gonna get that much faster or improve his foot speed all that much, that's why natural athleticism is so highly valued. Usually when I look at a guy I'm trying to figure out what his technique is like and if it's bad if he's athletic and smart enough to overcome it. You fix technique, once guys get to the NFL they're not really developing physically nearly as much and you have a rough idea of how physically gifted they are. An unathletic guy isn't gonna become athletic all of a sudden from a variety of drills.
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Its not like your taking a guy who has never worked out and trying to make him athletic. But boosting a guy from one level of athleticism to another just takes work and focus. Alot of tim(not saying in this case) you have guys who use their strength only because thats all they need in certain styles.

Like here you have a guy who is more of a power guy, is that hiding some athleticism? maybe. with some work can you have his feet moving better and have him kicking out to block faster? most definitely.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
You have never been an athlete. It cannot.
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You think everyone is just born an athlete? it takes work and coaching for every single guy who comes in this league to become the athletes that they are.
 
123phins said:
Its not like your taking a guy who has never worked out and trying to make him athletic. But boosting a guy from one level of athleticism to another just takes work and focus. Alot of tim(not saying in this case) you have guys who use their strength only because thats all they need in certain styles.

Like here you have a guy who is more of a power guy, is that hiding some athleticism? maybe. with some work can you have his feet moving better and have him kicking out to block faster? most definitely.
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I'm sorry man I can't agree with you. I agree with you when guys are developing and going through adolescence then sure, but that's biology and that's when people develop. When you're getting a 21 year old kid you're not all of a sudden gonna boost his athleticism significantly through an NFL training program. You can make him more flexible to a minor degree, maybe a little quicker but in reality it's not gonna make a noticeable difference. The only things you can change that will make a noticeable difference is the weight training to make guys stronger and their technique. The technique is the most important part and the only thing you can change significantly.

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123phins said:
You think everyone is just born an athlete? it takes work and coaching for every single guy who comes in this league to become the athletes that they are.
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That is true, but the big gains aren't made in the NFL athletically. They're made from a younger age and genetically.
 
FearTheBeard said:
Haha I'm agreeing with you man. You can make guys a bit more flexibile, a little more explosive but in reality it's not gonna change them much as a prospect, especially regarding an OL. The biggest thing you can fix is technique and strength with the guys coming out.
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Just playing a bit. For some to better understand, it;s somewhat like dancing. You have rhythm or you don't. and you can take all the dancing lessons in the word, and they ain't gonna give it to ya.
 
FearTheBeard said:
I'm sorry man I can't agree with you. I agree with you when guys are developing and going through adolescence then sure, but that's biology and that's when people develop. When you're getting a 21 year old kid you're not all of a sudden gonna boost his athleticism significantly through an NFL training program. You can make him more flexible to a minor degree, maybe a little quicker but in reality it's not gonna make a noticeable difference. The only things you can change that will make a noticeable difference is the weight training to make guys stronger and their technique. The technique is the most important part and the only thing you can change significantly.

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That is true, but the big gains aren't made in the NFL athletically. They're made from a younger age.
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True that it is mostly the athleticism is from younger ages. But to say you cant coach it is ludacris.

If it wasnt possible do you think athletes all over the world in different sports be 1 upping themselves in their respectives sports?
Its not as noticable in the NFL because there really isnt a way to measure it. How much faster are you gonna see an offensive lineman move? All of the movement is done in a few steps at most unless its a screen or a pull. fractions of a second is all an O-lineman needs for the edge over a rusher.
 
123phins said:
True that it is mostly the athleticism is from younger ages. But to say you cant coach it is ludacris.

If it wasnt possible do you think athletes all over the world in different sports be 1 upping themselves in their respectives sports?
Its not as noticable in the NFL because there really isnt a way to measure it. How much faster are you gonna see an offensive lineman move? All of the movement is done in a few steps at most unless its a screen or a pull. fractions of a second is all an O-lineman needs for the edge over a rusher.
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By your estimation everyone is getting coached to that level so the effects would be nullified since everyone's getting the same training, no? If athleticism was so easy to gain, then why every year do we have the debate with draft prospects over if they're athletic enough or not? A lack of athleticism is one of the biggest red flags for a prospect, and that's because it isn't something you can correct. If everyone is getting this training and becoming more athletic and a guard is moving a fraction quicker, isn't the same true for the defensive lineman too?
 
FearTheBeard said:
By your estimation everyone is getting coached to that level so the effects would be nullified since everyone's getting the same training, no? If athleticism was so easy to gain, then why every year do we have the debate with draft prospects over if they're athletic enough or not? A lack of athleticism is one of the biggest red flags for a prospect, and that's because it isn't something you can correct. If everyone is getting this training and becoming more athletic and a guard is moving a fraction quicker, isn't the same true for the defensive lineman too?
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Athleticism can be coached, you get any average joe with drive the best coach in the sport and he will be turned into an athlete guarenteed. Some players have more limitations than others but thats the same as every other ability. Its more so the raw talent that separates the good from the bad. Look at Antonio richardson he is said to be a row talent with coaching over time he can be a great football player.

I get what your saying in that you cant coach a guy like Hartline to run like Wallace, but you can coach a guy how to move laterally quicker.

When i was playing i was a WR and when moved to TE i didnt have the athleticism to do the blocking at the start but with coaching i was able to get my feet moving faster underneath me to block effectively
 
123phins said:
Athleticism can be coached, you get any average joe with drive the best coach in the sport and he will be turned into an athlete guarenteed. Some players have more limitations than others but thats the same as every other ability. Its more so the raw talent that separates the good from the bad. Look at Antonio richardson he is said to be a row talent with coaching over time he can be a great football player.

I get what your saying in that you cant coach a guy like Hartline to run like Wallace, but you can coach a guy how to move laterally quicker.

When i was playing i was a WR and when moved to TE i didnt have the athleticism to do the blocking at the start but with coaching i was able to get my feet moving faster underneath me to block effectively
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I'm sorry but considering the definition of athleticism if you had the athleticism to play WR you have enough athleticism to play TE. What you may have lacked was the functional strength, coordination and technique. Are you saying you were a WR but didn't have quick enough feet for TE? That doesn't make a lot of sense. What it sounds like you were taught is the proper footwork and understanding of body positioning. You already had the athleticism to do that, you got coached to use it effectively, you didn't get coached into a better athlete. You learnt how to use your tools effectively.

With a guy like Richardson, you can see the untapped potential because your can see the raw athleticism. When a guy doesn't have that raw athleticism you can see it too, and if you can see that he isn't all of a sudden going to learn it. The raw athleticism becomes better represented through good coaching, but you're not becoming more athletic...that's ridiculous, you're just learning the correct technique and how to apply it effectively. You're more efficient with your movement, but you're still the same athlete you were before, you're just more coordinated and polished. If you don't agree I don't know what to tell ya, a guy like Richardson isn't gonna get more athletic, the same way Chris Borland's arms aren't gonna grow, he's gonna learn how to apply his athleticism effectively and play controlled.

My point is, you're not becoming more athletic through coaching, you're harnessing your existing athleticism. You harness it through coaching because you're learning technique, leverage and all that.
 
Athleticism: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina.

I'm sure as **** not confused on the definition of athleticism. Athleticism pertains to an individual's physical capabilities. You're not being turned into a more physically gifted athlete through coaching, you're learning how to apply the athletic skills you already have in an effective manner. A natural athlete may have better technique because their body can easily adapt to new adjustments but their technique isn't making them more athletic. When you enter the NFL your physical tools are known commodities, with limited room for growth in most cases. Through improved technique you maximize that athleticism. If you don't get that fine, but you're mistaken. Hopefully SB can jump in and help me out.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Facts? As to why you are posting your opinion, with nothing to back it up, as such? What do you base your opinion on? Are you a Ravens fan who follows their every move? I think not.
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Sorry I should make up a random number like 50% and do it properly
 
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