DefensiveEnd76
Football Guru
We've seen and heard enough of Richie's antics. Time to wash our hands of him.
Report: Dolphins players may have harassed team staffer
- Thread starter Casas9425
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JTC111
Viva la resistance!!!
What did I cop out on? Going round in circles with someone setting up strawmen?
Everyone is blinded somewhat by their own prejudices and worldview, but his post contained a lot more nuance than the usual tenor of the opposing view, which is that Martin is a money grubbing snake who needs to grow a pair.
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Ultimately, we are doing nothing but trading opinions, which is why it's laughable that some folks will pop in merely to call everyone who doesn't agree with them a bunch of rubes. The only time such rhetoric is warranted is when one is arguing with junc.
In this sort of conversation, nuanced opinions carry no more weight than stark ones. As Thucydides once lamented, the bluntest wits often prevail, especially when social and cultural traditions have been broken.
NYinBostonFin
Playoffs Please!!
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Well, an open minded person would've said....if that is the situation and how it plays out, then maybe Martin's case is not valid. I might have to rethink that.
or you could just use your silly strawmen symbol. There was no going around in circles....we were having a back and forth conversation that you didn't like the outcome.
Comon JD
The people on this board standing up and defending JMartin outnumber the few defenders about 20:1
Most of the prominent VIP folks and mods are firmly in the JMartin villain camp.
You are a smart guy and typically have well reasoned posts. Where did I say the JMartin villain crowd were simpletons. I do believe that they are jumping to conclusions that are convenient(either pro dolphins) or fitting with their personal experience(they have experienced some form of hazing in the past).
A third aspect could be an element of groupthink that has manifested due to a bunker mentality of the fans feeling that the team they love is under assault.
I will stand by what I said. The whole situation sucks. It will be no one to blame and everyone to blame.
Look at my posts on VIP I have consistently said that the national media's attempt to caricature-ize Incognito as a racist psychopath are off base.
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I guess I am defending Incognito, but it is not so much that...I think Jon Martin is a snake and think people like him are just as dangerous as Incognito.
* He never let the team know there were issues with him and other team members
* He stormed out team headquarters and told Incognito "it was not about him"
* He lawyered up and has a had steady morphine drop of information to the media
* He has not let anyone hear the voice mail that its context is everything to the story
* He bantered with Incognito in the same manner as Incognito
* His tactics will undoubtedly ruin the careers and well-being of members of the Dolphins FO and coaching staff...many that had NOTHING to do with this situation
* Claiming PTSD is disgusting and an insult to any veteran or individual that went through a life or death experience
* Clowning around at the Stanford/SC game in obvious good spirits....yet he is collecting a paycheck weekly that many people make in a year
So my issue is not defending Incognito...it is I think Jon Martin is a snake.
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To be fair, you're not the person I'm specifically thinking of when I say that some posters like to drive by and paint everyone who disagrees with them with the brush of idiocy. I actually enjoy reading the posts of the person I'm thinking of who likes to do that, but it's still laughable.
I have been hazed. I have been harassed. I didn't like it. I have also seen people do horrible things for financial gain, and I have seen how people acted when they did that to their own damn family. Everyone brings their personal experiences into a discussion like this, and most folks will also project what they themselves would do in a similar situation. I can be a bit of a stoic, so I think I understand where Martin is coming from to some degree, but I can absolutely see where the "the guy is a huge blubbering *****" crowd is coming from, too.
I really don't think it's an element of groupthink. Agree or disagree with "Martin is a vagina" camp, but almost all of them have given their own reasons for why they feel this way and IMO have not been posting like a bunch of mindless groupthinking drones. I also think there is enough evidence (much of it kindly provided by Jon Martin's attorneys and agent) to rip on all parties involved.
enigmatics
Go get me a juice box!
I think some are reaching too hard to paint a supposed transitive picture of the "corporate" code of conduct in normal businesses to that of NFL locker rooms. The cultures are not even remotely similar and neither are the personalities involved.
I hear you, but some of those points have yet to be proven as fact as of yet and the clowning around is probably just what the doctor ordered, get out and hang around the game you love so much and be normal for the first time in 3 weeks.....I say good for him.....the innocent people who will be hurt by this sucks and I hope that's kept to a minimum and i'm sure he does to....
phishxhead
Ring Of Honor
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I though he did though his agent, when dumbass Ireland proposed punching RI as the solution.
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NO!!!!! PFT ****ed up the story. The agent called Ireland AFTER Martin left the team and that is when Ireland mentioned that Martin should have "punched him". Again, we need to know IF that did happen AND the context of how Ireland said it.
JTC111
Viva la resistance!!!
Two things made continuing the conversation with you pointless. First, you brought up the dock workers strawman. If Incognito had been suspended solely for cursing, that would have been appropriate. But we both know that there's more to the suspension than that. The second thing was the vilification of Martin's parents. Not you nor anyone else on this board has any idea what role his parents have or haven't played in this, yet person after person vilifies them as if they have facts that warrant the stream of offensive commentary polluting the conversation.
I have no idea how this is going to play out. Neither you, I, nor anyone here has heard all the evidence. Martin has no history of similar behaviors so I'm going to reserve judgement on his actions until we see what the NFL report says. Incognito, on the other hand, came to us with a history that made this situation, or at least something like it, none too surprising. Prior to this incident, I didn't want either player on the team. I didn't want Martin because he's not a very talented tackle. I said so during training camp; I say so now. He was yet another bad draft pick by Ireland. I don't want Incognito on this team because he's a schmuck who brings trouble wherever he goes. He was bounced out of Nebraska, he was bounced out of Oregon in record time, he made himself unwelcome in Buffalo, and he made himself unwelcome in St. Louis. That's enough of a track record for me to know that I didn't want him anywhere near the Dolphins. And whether he's guilty of something or not in this latest case, I still don't want him on the Dolphins. I'd prefer he take his circus act elsewhere. Bottom line is this: I didn't want either guy on my team before this crap; I don't want either on the team after this crap.
And with that, we can end this conversation.