Report: Dolphins players may have harassed team staffer

[MD]

I read that fans should allow the facts to come out; however, without those facts coming out Jon Martin is a POS because he quit and the media got involved. Apparently it's okay to make the assumption that Martin never informed any of the coaching staff or team management that there were issues resembling what is now surfacing publicly. Lets not ignore the fact that the Dolphins covered up a sexual assault or that Ireland told Martin's agent to use violence to resolve the issue. How anyone can have any trust in the management of this team is beyond me.

As for this ridiculous notion that the victim of off handed comments is responsible for informing the subject that he doesn't like it, wrong. He/she only needs to report it to their supervisor or manager who is then, by law, required to address it. Although off handed comments or simple teasing are not illegal, harassment is when it is so severe or frequent that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment.

What is being described sounds like the Dolphins have allowed an offensive environment to exist and it extends beyond the locker room. Jon Martin may have done this as a last resort but we won't know that until the final report is published. Richie Incognito has a history of bullying and is clearly wrong here. Though not finalized yet, if Jeff Ireland knew and did nothing about this, or in fact encouraged it being resolved physically, he may have broke a federal law depending on what exactly he is/was aware of.

Try stepping back and looking at this objectively instead of what you may or may not hope happens so as not to interfere with the season. This season is lost. This investigation goes far beyond this season and is far bigger than football.

 

[dlockz]

Well, after hearing all these "inappropriate work environment" arguments, I've come to the conclusion that the NFL should be disbanded. If ugly words and harsh terminology can not be tolerated, neither should grown men assaulting and taking from each other with out consent.

Fricken wussies man.

big difference between that and racist comments along with bullying. The nations military is doing fine without that bull****

 

[GoonBoss]

big difference between that and racist comments along with bullying. The nations military is doing fine without that bull****

Different military than I was in I suppose?

There is all kinds of bullying, and the military is the showcase for it.

Bullying. It's not just for privates anymore.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I read that fans should allow the facts to come out; however, without those facts coming out Jon Martin is a POS because he quit and the media got involved. Apparently it's okay to make the assumption that Martin never informed any of the coaching staff or team management that there were issues resembling what is now surfacing publicly. Lets not ignore the fact that the Dolphins covered up a sexual assault or that Ireland told Martin's agent to use violence to resolve the issue. How anyone can have any trust in the management of this team is beyond me.

1. Jon Martin's own attorney has admitted that he never told anyone. He uses the reasoning that Martin was bullied and was 'trying to befriend' the bullies. So yes, it is okay to make that assumption, because Jon Martin's lawyer has confirmed it.

2. The team didn't 'cover up' an assault. The victim went to the police, and filed a report. The team reported the incident to the league and took some sort of disciplinary action (we don't know what yet). The team or Richie (we don't know which) reached a settlement with the victim and they signed the standard confidentiality agreement about it. You can say that confidentiality agreements concerning criminal matters are unethical, and I would agree with you, but it's nothing uncommon or out of the ordinary in America.

3. Jeff Ireland never actually said Martin should have punched Richie. When he was informed of the situation after the fact he asked why Martin didn't handle the situation in another way. Jeff Ireland is still an idiot, but let's at least be fair to him. The originally reported story that Jeff Ireland told Jon Martin to punch Richie has already been taken back and revised by Mike Florio's original source who reported it.

I feel like Nubs, but the facts are the facts. Of course, none of these things should have ever happened, because Richie Incognito is clearly not the kind of idiot who should have been given that second chance. I pity whichever team is foolish enough to take him on after we cut him. But if we want to look at things objectively, let's look at things objectively rather than through the emotional prism of the way this story was originally reported -- a story that has changed quite a bit since it's been public.

I did step back and look at this objectively, which is why I changed my stance from 'fire everyone now' to my 'evaluate them based on job performance and fire them for that at the end of the season' line.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

big difference between that and racist comments along with bullying. The nations military is doing fine without that bull****

What does that have to do with football?

Clamoring for workplace environment laws to be applied to football without deviation are helping to secure it's demise, all because of some rat fink wuss that can't pull away from mommies teet. He's a quitter who used a lifetime engrained excuse of a victimization mentality to leave his team mates then cry foul because he didn't have the stones to tell mommy and daddy he couldn't cut it. Give me a fricken break.

Reminds me of many runaways with overbearing, over expecting, control freak parents, I helped as a cop. Me - "why did you runaway?" Kid - "I was failing math". Me - "Why didn't you get help?" Kid - "I didn't want mommy to be mad at me".

The slippery slope is here and football won't survive the next 20 years, and advocating this, we will deserve not to have football available as a sport. Or Hockey or any other sport or "workplace" where there is physical and/or verbal confrontation, because I got news .... anything anyone says, anything anyone does and anything anyone perceives as negative towards them can be deemed offensive and hostile.

Mark my words, the locker room dumbsh**ery is just the beginning. Soon players will quit because their coaches are yelling emasculating names at them or their team mates are telling them to "man-up" and they will demand they keep their scholarships (or pay) and .... oh wait ...

 

[JTC111]

Clamoring for workplace environment laws to be applied to football without deviation are helping to secure it's demise...

Is it your position that football can't survive unless we allow guys like Incognito to continue to say things to other players like, "I'm going to **** your sister without a condom and *** in her *****!" and if we don't allow them to shake down rookies for money? Football breaks down if we insist on even the barest minimum standards of decency in the locker room? A multi-billion dollar dollar business goes into the toilet if we don't allow unchecked behaviors like groping female volunteers at team-sponsored events? I don't see how any of that is an integral part of the game, so if that's what you're saying, I'd love to hear why it will secure football's demise as you said.

 

[retarmyfinfan]

If you work somewhere in a ghetto it might happen at your work place. If I claimed a co-workers wife is sleeping with everybody in the work place I would get fired. Slandering somebody's reputation like that is illegal. My company will not put themselves in a position to get sued for ruining a reputation. Some ignorant people here might think it's ok to do I guess.

 

[retarmyfinfan]

Not necessarily. IF nobody is objecting to the jokes it is not illegal.

Where the **** do you work? It is illegal.

 

[truedolfan57]

Is it your position that football can't survive unless we allow guys like Incognito to continue to say things to other players like, "I'm going to **** your sister without a condom and *** in her *****!" and if we don't allow them to shake down rookies for money? Football breaks down if we insist on even the barest minimum standards of decency in the locker room? A multi-billion dollar dollar business goes into the toilet if we don't allow unchecked behaviors like groping female volunteers at team-sponsored events? I don't see how any of that is an integral part of the game, so if that's what you're saying, I'd love to hear why it will secure football's demise as you said.

Guys like Incognito? what about guys like Martin, who reply with threats as well? Seems that both were wrong in that regard. Not sure why Martin should get a pass, and incognito should get castrated. I think everyone that Jeff Duhnam joked to, that he would "kill you" when using his Achmed the Dead terrorist should sue him for all he's worth. See how stupid that sounds? The fact that they both had texts similar to each other, shows they were just joking with each other. And since no one, not Richie, not other teammates, not the coaches, knew about this hurting Martins weak feelings, how would they know it needed to stop, if it seemed like harmless fun to all parties that knew about it.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Where the **** do you work? It is illegal.

If people are not offended from what is being said, how is it an issue? If someone states that the joke is not welcomed, then the behavior needs to stop.

BTW, you just used a swear word in your comment...would you fired for using that word at work?

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

If you work somewhere in a ghetto it might happen at your work place. If I claimed a co-workers wife is sleeping with everybody in the work place I would get fired. Slandering somebody's reputation like that is illegal. My company will not put themselves in a position to get sued for ruining a reputation. Some ignorant people here might think it's ok to do I guess.

BTW, I am offended by the "ghetto" comment. What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Pelorus Jack]

The NFL has always had men that played the game with all out intensity on the field but still were able to maintain a high level of professionalism and humanity.

They were tough men but honorable men both on and off the field.

There is nothing wrong with enforcing honorable behavior at all times. It will only make the game better.

 

[where's th'fish]

In other news, another player is suspected of having broken Will Yeatman's knee and could be facing charges. Oh, wait, that's within the rules. It's perfectly all right, then!

My point is that it's very hypocritical to condone people for breaking each other's knees, legs, and get their brains full of holes leading to depression and suicide because we have fun with it, but it's a moral outrage if these same people cuss and insult co-workers and staffers.

To hell with that. Ban this sport of learn to accept for what it is, with all it implies.

 

[JTC111]

Guys like Incognito? what about guys like Martin, who reply with threats as well? Seems that both were wrong in that regard. Not sure why Martin should get a pass, and incognito should get castrated. I think everyone that Jeff Duhnam joked to, that he would "kill you" when using his Achmed the Dead terrorist should sue him for all he's worth. See how stupid that sounds? The fact that they both had texts similar to each other, shows they were just joking with each other. And since no one, not Richie, not other teammates, not the coaches, knew about this hurting Martins weak feelings, how would they know it needed to stop, if it seemed like harmless fun to all parties that knew about it.

First, Jeff Dunham is an entertainer and what you described is what people are paying to see. No one is paying to see the crap that goes on in a locker room. Second, I'm not giving anyone a pass, I reference Incognito because he's the guy with the history. In every stop of his football career, he's caused trouble.

As to the "they were just joking with each other" defense, it's not at all unusual for the victims of bullies to go along with their antagonist in order to lessen the aggression pointed their way. Now we have no idea if that's the case here, the NFL will make that determination, but given the track records of both guys, the good money is on Incognito being the instigator as he has been in other places. If the report shows otherwise, I have no issue with that. As I've said before, I didn't want either guy on the team before this happened; I don't want either on the team after.

Finally, you responded to my post but made no attempt at answering the question I posed, which was: why would the NFL suffer a demise if there were minimum standards of locker room conduct to which players had to adhere?

 

[spiketex]

Is it your position that football can't survive unless we allow guys like Incognito to continue to say things to other players like, "I'm going to **** your sister without a condom and *** in her *****!" and if we don't allow them to shake down rookies for money? Football breaks down if we insist on even the barest minimum standards of decency in the locker room? A multi-billion dollar dollar business goes into the toilet if we don't allow unchecked behaviors like groping female volunteers at team-sponsored events? I don't see how any of that is an integral part of the game, so if that's what you're saying, I'd love to hear why it will secure football's demise as you said.

JTC - I think that you underestimate the importance of having trainee sociopaths, on the team. Boys will be boys and this was just part of building hierarchical respect within the locker room. Richie was showing leadership and a few tweets may be misinterpreted by some in the real world who don't understand "the context". The barest standards of decency are inappropriate for the NFL.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

Is it your position that football can't survive unless we allow guys like Incognito to continue to say things to other players like, "I'm going to **** your sister without a condom and *** in her *****!" and if we don't allow them to shake down rookies for money? Football breaks down if we insist on even the barest minimum standards of decency in the locker room? A multi-billion dollar dollar business goes into the toilet if we don't allow unchecked behaviors like groping female volunteers at team-sponsored events? I don't see how any of that is an integral part of the game, so if that's what you're saying, I'd love to hear why it will secure football's demise as you said.

My point is simple. EEOC Law dictates that the harasser's conduct must be unwelcome. If we are not careful, in a necessarily violent and intimidating sport such as football, there are many avenues for people to claim unwelcomed conduct. The slippery slope is a fact of life and we've seen this in many instances in the NFL and in society in general.

You can pretend it doesn't happen all you want, but that doesn't change the reality. Claiming I'm for this or that, doesn't detract from the fact that once the genie is out of the bottle and if players develop victim mentalities rather than that of warriors, and their agents/mommies/lawyers begin nit-picking NFL behavior in the work place, the NFL is in big, big trouble.

You have to keep in mind that the NFL work place extends beyond the locker room to the practices and the games and there are many, many people in this country that view football as a outdated, brutish, overly violent scourge on society that teaches children the wrong lessons in life. This is not arguable.

Until now, this Martin fueled moment, the NFL has been relatively immune from outside influences regarding it's outside the norm traditions and practices. Their biggest outside pressure has been safety and profit sharing related. But thanks to mommy Martin, this has changed ... and as with all self assigned changers of societal blights, this is just the beginning.

As for the golf incident. That is a separate matter completely. There is, in my most humble opinion a massive difference between the behavior in private between team mates and their professional public behavior. Had the victim been willing, Cogs should have been charged. Frankly, Cogs should have been dismissed from the team by Philbin/Ireland/Ross.