Rivers is still a possibility | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rivers is still a possibility

Oh man, if Reggie Williams falls to us... we'd be getting a major steal. This guy would be a top 5 pick any other draft. Some people think he's actually better than Roy Williams.

I'd be happy with Michael Clayton though too... he's going to be very good and we'd be keeping the family together :)
 
T.O. doesn't just drop some balls occassionally. He drops them regularly. Usually, a couple a game. I know stats inc. says fewer drops, they only listed about 15 drops in 13 or 14 games, but I find them to be very forgiving. Also, that doesn't include the plays where T.O. just stops running. I remember two ints last year where the pass was good but T.O. had slowed down or even stopped. Bill Walsh said that T.O. has talent, but he is too inconsistent to pay big bucks to.

I'm surrounded by Niner fans out here and everytime somebody lists Miami as a possible T.O. destination one of them comes into my office to laugh at me (they know I'm a Miami fan). They are tired of being teased by occassional incredible plays and regular drive stopping plays. He will do nothing for our O and if he gets big money he'll kill our salary cap.
 
Looks like Rivers will be gone by #20. :(

"I think the Chargers are pretty solidly on the fence about their No. 1 overall pick, but here's my guess: They'll trade down to the middle or lower part of the first round and get multiple picks in exchange for the first choice. This comes from a gut feeling I got here from San Diego GM A.J. Smith, who didn't seem married to any player or pick, and from the fact that the Chargers have asked the agent for North Carolina State quarterback Philip Rivers if Rivers would be amenable to a plane-full of Chargers coaches and execs flying to Raleigh for a personal workout and get-to-know-you session."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/02/23/mmqb/index.html
 
Originally posted by Boomer
There is no way on earth, after spending a 2nd rounder on Feeley that we draft Rivers as well, even if we get a first for Ogunleye. Those 2 picks will be used on a Lee Evans or a Reggie Williams at 20 and then a Justin Smiley, to bolster that OL. Anyone who thinks we will still draft a passer in R1 needs to lie down in a room.
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Assuming JF leaves then it is clear we are getting one more QB. The question is where. If Rivers is the highest rated player on your board and you already have one of the top 5 wrs from this draft, you take him. The only way you don't is if you have another player at a need position rated close to Rivers. I haven't read anything to indicate that Miami likes any of the OL men in this draft enough to be a first rounder (other than Gallery or Andrews). If that's true and you can't trade down, do you take a player you have highly rated or do you reach for a position of need?
 
It may be clear Rafael that if Jay leaves we'll be getting another QB, but it won't be Philip Rivers. In fact it won't be any QB in R1. If we take say a Lee Evans at 20 and then Rivers is there at for arguments sake 25, we still don't take him. That would be dumb. You take OL, or DT of S. You don't use a 1st round pick on a QB 2 months after you've used a 2nd round pick on a QB who is 26. This Miami team has way too many holes to be as dumb as to do that. You take a Dwan Edwards or a Randy Starks or a Justin Smiley or a Jake Grove or a Chris Snee. The fact that you haven't read anything to indicate that we like any linemen in R1 is neither here nor there - I wouldn't expect Miami to reveal it's draft strategy or who they like to anyone.
 
Boomer, do you really think they like Feeley that much?

The lineman you list are nice, but I'd have to say if we got a chance to get a QB to groom especially when we essentially ar eonly giving AJ two years to prove himself would lend itself to taking a guy and then having great trade bait if AJ pans out.

Starks though has all-world talent and could really bring something to us. Most G are not first round picks and I'd be dissapointed if we used the draft and not FA to upgrade our OL.
 
all this draft talk is fun but we really don't know if we are going to have 1 or 2 first round picks yet after the OGUN situation is finished, FA period is done then we can see were we stand. Who know we could have a starting WR two new OL and we use the pick on a DL or LB DB but as of right now we have the 20 pick that we should use on the the offense somewhere WR OL.
 
Originally posted by Boomer
It may be clear Rafael that if Jay leaves we'll be getting another QB, but it won't be Philip Rivers. In fact it won't be any QB in R1. If we take say a Lee Evans at 20 and then Rivers is there at for arguments sake 25, we still don't take him. That would be dumb. You take OL, or DT of S. You don't use a 1st round pick on a QB 2 months after you've used a 2nd round pick on a QB who is 26. This Miami team has way too many holes to be as dumb as to do that. You take a Dwan Edwards or a Randy Starks or a Justin Smiley or a Jake Grove or a Chris Snee. The fact that you haven't read anything to indicate that we like any linemen in R1 is neither here nor there - I wouldn't expect Miami to reveal it's draft strategy or who they like to anyone.
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The reasons I don't see a OL in the first are several.

First, I don't have a 1st rd grade on any of the guys you mentioned.

Second, Miami said they were going to concentrate their OL search in FA. This has been validated by reports of players they are allegedly targeting (G/C Woody and G Chris V.) This is coupled with almost zero news from the combine about Miami interviewing OL players.

Finally, when it comes to draft strategy, it's dumb to pass up the best player on your board for a reach. It all comes down to Miami's board. Where are Rivers and the OL players rated? I assume that Miami hasn't revealed their ratings to you either, so the you can only go by your own ratings. If you have OL players rated in the 1st, you take one. If you don't you try to trade down or get the highest rated player at a position of need. Since, I don't have any OL rated that high I try to trade down or failing that take Rivers. It would be dumb not to.
 
Originally posted by phunwin
If we get a pick for Ogun, I would be shocked if we don't go WR and OL in round 1. I like Rivers and all, but you don't make a serious investment in one young QB, then go out and grab another one.

Good point, finsnchips, about Mike Williams pushing someone down to us at 20. Another possibility is that we trade down with whichever first round pick is lower and get someone like Rashaun Woods or Mike Jenkins, who will probably be pushed down to early second round.

Of course, we could sign T.O. somehow, and carpet bomb the offensive line with high draft picks. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
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We need OL before WR. Yes, the sexy pick is always WR, but we need an OL first.

Also, why do some people think they shouldn't draft a QB now? Does anyone remember a QB by the name of Scott Mitchell who lit it up on the field before crashing back down to earth in Detroit? We don't know what we have in Feeley yet. I rest my case...
 
I've not seen ANY report in ANY newspaper that has talked about us going for Damian Woody. It's ALL been fan conjecture.

You may not have other OL in the first round, but Chris Snee, Justin Smiley and Jake Grove all carry 1st round grades. How do you know who Miami is interviewing in Indy? I know for fact that they have talked to Vernon Carey, Grove, Sean Bubin and Smiley in long interviews, as well as Randy Starks, Dunta Robinson, Roy Williams, Lee Evans.

How is Dwan Edwards or Randy Starks a reach at say 25? They aren't.

As for the best player available argument, that's something that teams trot out but it's not true. You think say Indy would take Rivers just because he's higher rated on their board or do you think they'd actually fill a need, like CB or DT?

Phin Missed - to answer your question.....I think if they invest a 2nd round pick in a QB via trade then they better like him that much. With FA, draft picks are too valuable to be wasted like that. If Spielman used a 2nd rounder on a guy who was then the 2nd stringer, or if he used a 2nd rounder, then used another 1st rounder on a QB 2 months later, the front office would be the laughing stock of professional sports, especially when we have so many holes on the offensive line that need filling, that we have 3 DT's on the roster, two of who are 32 or above and one of which has been talking of retiring, that we have two slow safeties, both having seen better days, etc. And even if we DO draft a WR at 20, there are still holes to fill there as well.

It would be the most laughable move in sports history to draft Rivers and it isn't going to happen. If it does, I will mail you $10,000.
 
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Originally posted by rafael
I'm anticipating that Miami will have two #1s (Ogun). With two #1s I'm assuming that we use one on a stud wr, the other on Rivers. Sorry I wasn't clear. I said the part about having two #1s in my head I just didn't type it.

As for the wrs, I'm hoping for Reg. Williams or Clayton as well.
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Great...if we do that we can watch that great reciever and future QB produce squat behind our joke of an O-line. Bottom line, I said this last year(and was proven right), and I'll say it again...NOTHING we do on the offensive side of the ball is going to matter ONE bit, unless we fix the O-line and get it at LEAST in the top 3rd of the league. We do that and the existing players automatically get MUCH better. If we don't do that than Ramsey throwing to TO won't produce any better numbers than Feeley to Thompson will.
 
Originally posted by Boomer
I've not seen ANY report in ANY newspaper that has talked about us going for Damian Woody. It's ALL been fan conjecture.

You may not have other OL in the first round, but Chris Snee, Justin Smiley and Jake Grove all carry 1st round grades. How do you know who Miami is interviewing in Indy? I know for fact that they have talked to Vernon Carey, Grove, Sean Bubin and Smiley in long interviews, as well as Randy Starks, Dunta Robinson, Roy Williams, Lee Evans.

How is Dwan Edwards or Randy Starks a reach at say 25? They aren't.

As for the best player available argument, that's something that teams trot out but it's not true. You think say Indy would take Rivers just because he's higher rated on their board or do you think they'd actually fill a need, like CB or DT?

Phin Missed - to answer your question.....I think if they invest a 2nd round pick in a QB via trade then they better like him that much. With FA, draft picks are too valuable to be wasted like that. If Spielman used a 2nd rounder on a guy who was then the 2nd stringer, or if he used a 2nd rounder, then used another 1st rounder on a QB 2 months later, the front office would be the laughing stock of professional sports, especially when we have so many holes on the offensive line that need filling, that we have 3 DT's on the roster, two of who are 32 or above and one of which has been talking of retiring, that we have two slow safeties, both having seen better days, etc. And even if we DO draft a WR at 20, there are still holes to fill there as well.

It would be the most laughable move in sports history to draft Rivers and it isn't going to happen. If it does, I will mail you $10,000.
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Woody was linked to Miami on ESPN Sportscenter and NE newspapers reported that the Pats would let him walk.

I haven't read that they are interviewing OL, but if they are then maybe they have one of those guys rated high enough.

I didn't say best player available regardless of need. I said best player available at a position of need. QB is still a position of need.

Many teams have used multiple picks or a combo of picks and FA pick ups at a single position in the hopes that at least one guy will pan out. In the 80s the Giants ( I believe) used that successful strategy regularly. I haven't done any research to see who's done it lately, but sports history would indicate it is a an effective strategy.
 
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227


Great...if we do that we can watch that great reciever and future QB produce squat behind our joke of an O-line. Bottom line, I said this last year(and was proven right), and I'll say it again...NOTHING we do on the offensive side of the ball is going to matter ONE bit, unless we fix the O-line and get it at LEAST in the top 3rd of the league. We do that and the existing players automatically get MUCH better. If we don't do that than Ramsey throwing to TO won't produce any better numbers than Feeley to Thompson will.
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Nobody is arguing that we don't need to upgrade the OL. I'm saying that FA is the more effective route to pursue b/c the of the likely available talent in the draft vs. FA. I don't like the T that are likely to be available in the 1st and I have the G rated as 2nd rounders. I do like a couple of the G potentials in FA.
 
With Pitt at #11, Buff at #13 possibly interested in Rivers, we are out of gas. Also, remember that when a team really likes a player they keep it hush hush so it would not surprise me seeing SD trading down to mid first or TB (reports are that they are looking for a QB too) to draft him before the Fins have any chance. Thats why Spielman pulled the trigger and i dont blame him. Rivers , IMO, would've been the only QB in the draft that could've started right away b/c of his 4 years as starter in college and his smarts.
 
Originally posted by MARLINSFAN305
With Pitt at #11, Buff at #13 possibly interested in Rivers, we are out of gas. Also, remember that when a team really likes a player they keep it hush hush so it would not surprise me seeing SD trading down to mid first or TB (reports are that they are looking for a QB too) to draft him before the Fins have any chance. Thats why Spielman pulled the trigger and i dont blame him. Rivers , IMO, would've been the only QB in the draft that could've started right away b/c of his 4 years as starter in college and his smarts.
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There are only 2 teams with the draft power using THIS years picks that would meet the trade down and draft criteria for SD. THat would be NE and us. Spielmen should have been negotiating a trade-up wtih SD or Arizona, allowing us to nab Eli (could start now) or Ben (start in a year). We'll have 2 firsts, NE has 2 firsts. We should have been looking to trade up, but if we were going QB in the first, Feeley wouldn't be getting a 5 million dollar bonus.
 
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