Rivers, Losman, Schaub, whoever...

[ZOD]

There is another Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Trent Dilfer, or some other QB "has been" who can still do something in this league. The aforementioned names were all trades and you can come up with a couple more "average" starters in the NFL to add to the list of trades. Throw in the CFLers (Garcia) and Arena Leaguers (Warner, Maddox) and you have a couple more starters.

Behind a good pass blocking offensive line-there's one on the Dolphin bench.

Why waste-I mean WASTE a draft pick?


You think one of these guys that will be available in the first round for us will be a Manning, Vick, McNabb, Pennington or Mcnair? One who does well with the team that drafted him? It's a rarity. It's not commonplace. More often than not the 1st rounders are busts. Not little "busts".

Monumental Busts!

You could put them right up there beside Dolly Parton and compare.

Let's go back prior to 2000 so we can give these guys a "fair shake". You know, a couple of years to prove their abilities.

99

Tim Couch- Competing with a relative no name for a starting role.

Donovan Mcnabb- He's lucky he's built like a truck.

Akili Smith-Monumental Bust

Daunte Culpepper-Some Minnesotans prefer to have the journeyman in there rather than this guy. And really, what has he done? I think I could complete alot of passes to Randy Moss.

Cade Mcnown-Look! It's Dave Wannestadt's Monumental Bust.

98

Peyton Manning- What you are dreaming for.

Ryan Leaf- Your worst nightmare.

97

Jim Drunkenmiller-Uh....We had him...For camp!

96

Tony Banks- He's out there. You want to give him a try in Miami?

95

Steve Mcnair- Hey look! Another one that worked out.

Kerry Collins- Whew! What a fiasco he had to go through to get to where he is (and he's still not that good).

94

Heath Shuler- WAHOO! Monumental bust.

Trent Dilfer-of the Dilferization of football fame.

93

Drew Bledsoe-Big arm. You got anything else nice to say?

Rick Mirer-I remember Bill Walsh saying that this kid would be the next Joe Montana. Sure Bill .

92

David Klingler-Monumental

Tommy Maddox-it only took him 11 years to get a starting gig.

91

Dan Mcgwire-who?

Todd "tasty bud and cool waves" Marinovich

90

Jeff George-Big arm. You got anything else nice to say?

Andre Ware-um.........Barry Sanders sure was good.


Do you notice how ugly the names get the further you go back?

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for wanting to drag your team through that sh*t. :tongue:

 

[Pink_Dove]

Agreed...
QB the glamour position..most dolfans look at recent years where is seems we havnt drafted a QB not only in the early rounds but in the late rounds as well and ask themsleves It<s about time we drafted one...
Have we had a legitimate QB prospect since Dan the Man ??? Scott Mitchell, Sage Rosenfels, Damon Huard, Jay Fiedler ?? All those guys were free agent pickups or trades that frankly are short on talent (jury is still out on Rosenfels but I don<t like his prospects)...
Now most people are pressing for a legitimate prospect who could be our starting QB for the next 10 years...
Can Rivers, Losman or Schaub be that guy???
It"s a possibility butwith the plethora of WR prospects out there we would be foolish not to adress that position...As long as we don<t draft a guy named Yatil...

 

[Bowl_Bound]

You can say the same thing about other positions also. Therefore perhaps we should trade all picks for older talent every year. Or perhaps we should trade the draft for the other manning (Eli) and hope we just netted a franchise QB that we can keep. :D

 

[ZOD]

Originally posted by dreadlockera
You can say the same thing about other positions also.

I don't think you are correct there....

Wide receivers

99

Tory Holt
David Boston
Troy Edwards

98

Kevin Dyson

97

Ike Hilliard
Yatil (oof) Green
Reidel Anthony
Rae Carruth (off the field)

96

Meshawn Johnson
Terry Glenn
Eddie Kennison
Marvin Harrison
Eric Moulds

95

Michael Westbrook
Joey Galloway
JJ Stokes

94

Charles Johnson
Johnnie Morton
Thomas Lewis
Derrick Alexander

93

Curtis Conway
Sean Dawkins
OJ Mcduffie

92

Desmond Howard

I like these percentages a whole lot better. Most produced.

 

[ZOD]

Tackles

99

John Tait
Matt Stinchcomb
Luke Petitgout
LJ Shelton
AAron Gibson

98

Kyle Turley
Tra Thomas
Mo Collins
Victor Riley

97

Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Tarik Glenn

96

Jonathan Ogden
Willie Anderson
Jon Michels
Andre Johnson

95

Tony Boselli
Korey Stringer
Billy Milner
Blake Brockermeyer
Trezell Jenkins

94

Bernard Jenkins
Wayne Gandy
Aaron Taylor
Todd Steussie

93

Willie Roaf
Lincoln Kennedy
Brad Hopkins
Ernest Dye


Are you seeing the percentages I'm seeing?

 

[Bowl_Bound]

I see what you are saying.
I guess its a high risk high reward situation. Its unlikely a premiere franchise QB will become a free agent. You wont see Mcnair, Payton etc in those situations (not for nothing but two of the top teams in the AFC). I guess Payton may be a FA but its only b/c they F*** up contract negotiations. Therefore it becomes a question of how you want to approach the draft. High risk and reward or no. If you are close and are only missing a QB (mas or menos) and have been forced to watch the Fiedler experiment go horribly awry I say yes. The QB is the most important position on the field. The one most likely to kill you team (Jay) but also the one that can lift it to the next level. If and I mean IF you get the feeling that a QB has that intangible it, the only thing you cant get at the combine I say pull the trigger. I dont need the entire O line to have "it" but the QB needs it.

 

[SMadison29]

I like your WR percentages a lot better too ZOD even though you left off Moss.

 

[ZOD]

Really, I see high risk and no reward on that list.

Not one has won a SB with the team that drafted him.

And only one has won a SB.

It's all risk to me and I don't want to be asscociated with the Bengals, Browns, Seahawks, and Buccaneers (prior to Dungy) franchise history.

 

[ZOD]

Originally posted by SMadison29
I like your WR percentages a lot better too ZOD even though you left off Moss.

How did I leave off that one?

O' well, I left Marcus Nash off too.

 

[Frayser]

Originally posted by dreadlockera
I see what you are saying.
I guess its a high risk high reward situation. Its unlikely a premiere franchise QB will become a free agent. You wont see Mcnair, Payton etc in those situations (not for nothing but two of the top teams in the AFC). I guess Payton may be a FA but its only b/c they F*** up contract negotiations. Therefore it becomes a question of how you want to approach the draft. High risk and reward or no. If you are close and are only missing a QB (mas or menos) and have been forced to watch the Fiedler experiment go horribly awry I say yes. The QB is the most important position on the field. The one most likely to kill you team (Jay) but also the one that can lift it to the next level. If and I mean IF you get the feeling that a QB has that intangible it, the only thing you cant get at the combine I say pull the trigger. I dont need the entire O line to have &quot;it&quot; but the QB needs it.

Our team is not close to the point that we use our only pick in the first two rounds to draft a guy that could be there through a lot of the second. We have offensive concerns . . . making a guy like Vernon Carey a much better option in my opinion. We have wide receiver needs . . . making Rashaun Woods (I'm assuming Williams will still be gone even with Fitzgerald now in) a good selection. Like I said in another thread, I would take a playmaker like DeAngelo Hall before I would take Rivers or Losman at this point. We would finally have a threatening kick returner and someone to take over for Madison after another season or two. In my opinion, taking Rivers or Losman would only be smart if we have the extra 1st and 3rd for Ogun . . . and even then it still might be a stretch. The extra first could be used on a WR or OL, or we could trade down for a 2nd, 3rd, and a high pick next year possibly. That gives us a bit of room to fill out our areas with depth issues.

"Franchise QB" is a sexy term, but we shouldn't get too enamored with that idea when it comes to the draft. We have a far better chance of finding a guy that could develop into a talent through FA and/or trades then we do with the 20th pick in the draft. While Eli might be great, I just don't see us getting him. We would have to give up too much, and there are too many teams at the top of the board with QB needs (which also kills our shot at Ben). I say we give a guy like Volek a year to develop and learn Norv's system under Brunell. After a year, we'll see where he is. Maybe the top tier QBs in the draft won't be so far out of reach then. My point is . . . dont' force things. We are not close enough to just draft Eli and win the Super Bowl, but we are not so far away that we should risk a bust with our 1st round pick.

 

[ZOD]

*whistle*

"Personal foul"

Illegal Bumping




But, but, It's to subvert all support for wasting a draft pick.

 

[Phishstix]

Originally posted by ZOD

91

Dan Mcgwire-who?

you missed bret farve in '91. to break down 99's class, mcnabb and culpeper have taken their teams to 3 and 2 nfc title games respectively, are both pro-bowlers, and i'd love to have either of them. couch has struggled at times but has showed signs that he can play,, and he's only 25 so he could stil come up. wanny didn't draft mcnown, he was already gone. and akili was just a terrible pick, it was then and it is now. drafting a qb is a crap shoot, but keep this in mind, 17 out of the 30 starting qbs are former 1st rounders, and 5 out of the 6 probowlers were 1st rounders. the whole draft is a crapshoot, nobody knows how these guys will respond or how injuries will arise, remember yatil. some go from rags to riches, others riches to rags, so i guess we'll see.

 

[Bowl_Bound]

Originally posted by ZOD
Really, I see high risk and no reward on that list.

Not one has won a SB with the team that drafted him.

And only one has won a SB.

It's all risk to me and I don't want to be asscociated with the Bengals, Browns, Seahawks, and Buccaneers (prior to Dungy) franchise history.

Keep in mind the teams that typically draft a franchise QB are not close to winning a SB. Additionally it takes time to develop a young QB. Combine the two things and you have teams QBs that are SB winning QBs in terms of talent that have not gotten it done yet. Hech Danny never won one but got there in his second year. I wouldn't have traded him for anything, and I dont think he didn't win one b/c HE couldn't. His teams couldn't but he certainly could.

 

[ZOD]

Brett Favre-2nd round, pick number 6

Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington
Tim Couch
Donovan Mcnabb
Daunte Culpepper
Peyton Mannning
Steve Mcnair
Kerry Collins
Drew Bledsoe
Tommy Maddox


There are your 16 starters drafted in the first round.

I see 6 that are worth the pick.

The other 10 QB haven't proven a damn thing.

Let's look at last years passer rating, since it seems to be the fairest judgement.

Mcnair
Manning
Culpepper
Okay that's the top three that are indeed number 1's.

Next-
Trent Green
Jake Plummer
Brett Favre
Matt Hasselbeck
Aaron Brooks
Jon Kitna
Tom Brady

Hey wait.....Here's another number 1
Chad Pennington

Back to not number 1's
Brad Johnson
Marc Bulgar
Jake Delhomme
Jeff Garcia

And here comes another cluster of number 1's
Donovan Mcnabb
Patrick Ramsey
Tommy Maddox

Back to not number 1
Kelly Holcombe-BTW...Notice you will not see Couch's name on this long list.
Rich Gannon


Drew Bledsoe=1
Byron Leftwich=1

Jay Fiedler=not
Quincy Carter=not

Kerry Collins=1

Jeff Blake=not

David Carr=1

Drew Brees=not
Doug Johnson=not

and let me stop here at the bottom with one of the more recent number 1's

Joey Harrington

That is the order of QB ratings of 2003. Success and failures can be attributed to whereever you want. But it does not change the mistakes or positive results that warrant the QB rating stat. It's still a waste.

 

[minus]

Excellent post Zod...