Rosen should be the Dolphins long term answer

[mrbunglez]

I vote for a ROSEN SUPER THREAD. Too many of these Rosen threads popping up everywhere.

 

[Dolphins81]

Personal insults. Sweet. Marino did start out with an awesome team, but guess what? He put up points for the rest of his career, even when that "awesome team" left and retired around him. He was the constant.

Russell Wilson as a quick example, after Lynch left and his line was worse than ours, he still produced despite not having a lot of top end talent on offense which is my entire point. Really good QBs produce NO MATTER WHAT. Good talent and protection allows them to take it to the next level and put up even crazier stats and gets them into an obscene offense that puts up 30+ points a game, but at no point is a really good QB sitting there struggling to hit 20 points a game, let alone double digits.

You talk about my football IQ, but I'd ask you if you have a tough time learning lessons if you're really going to start throwing the same excuses at Rosen that Tannehill was getting without realizing that it didn't matter who was around him. He just wasn't that good. Seven years of that garbage, and you're right back ready to do it again. For what? What do you hope to gain out of sticking your head in the sand?

Actually, I never once defended Tammy. He was never a real QB. However our team is clearly worse than it ever was when Tammy was here. Plus, I have seen enough of your post to know that you need to learn a lot more about football before you should post again.

I believe that QBs drafted later go to better teams and have a higher chance of success because of those teams already have a supporting cast. These QBs usually set and learn for a season or 2.

QBs drafted in the top 5

2018 Baker Mayfield and Sam Dumba$$
2017 Mitchell Trubisky
2016 Goff and Wentz
2015 Winston and Mariota
2014 Blake Bortles LMAO
2013 ZERO!
2012 Luck and RGIII lmao
2011 Cam
2010 Sam Bradford
2009 Matt Stafford and Marky Sanchez
2008 Matt Ryan
2007 JaMarcuss Russell
2006 Vince Young
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning SB winner and Rivers
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr and Joey Harrington
2001 Micheal Vick
2000 ZERO
1999 Tim Couch and Akili Smith
1998 Peyton Manning SB winner and Ryan Leaf
1997 ZERO
1996 ZERO
1995 Steve McNair and Kerry Collins
1994 Heath Shuler
1993 Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer
1992 ZERO
1991 ZERO
1990 Jeff George
1989 Troy Aikman SB winner

In the past 30 years, only 3 QBs that were drafted in the top 5 have won SBs. Most of these QBs were bust.

 

[russianbear]

Actually, I never once defended Tammy. He was never a real QB. However our team is clearly worse than it ever was when Tammy was here. Plus, I have seen enough of your post to know that you need to learn a lot more about football before you should post again.

I believe that QBs drafted later go to better teams and have a higher chance of success because of those teams already have a supporting cast. These QBs usually set and learn for a season or 2.

QBs drafted in the top 5

2018 Baker Mayfield and Sam Dumba$$
2017 Mitchell Trubisky
2016 Goff and Wentz
2015 Winston and Mariota
2014 Blake Bortles LMAO
2013 ZERO!
2012 Luck and RGIII lmao
2011 Cam
2010 Sam Bradford
2009 Matt Stafford and Marky Sanchez
2008 Matt Ryan
2007 JaMarcuss Russell
2006 Vince Young
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning SB winner and Rivers
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr and Joey Harrington
2001 Micheal Vick
2000 ZERO
1999 Tim Couch and Akili Smith
1998 Peyton Manning SB winner and Ryan Leaf
1997 ZERO
1996 ZERO
1995 Steve McNair and Kerry Collins
1994 Heath Shuler
1993 Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer
1992 ZERO
1991 ZERO
1990 Jeff George
1989 Troy Aikman SB winner

In the past 30 years, only 3 QBs that were drafted in the top 5 have won SBs. Most of these QBs were bust.

Let's first consider that only 19 "different" QBs have won Superbowls in the past 30 years.

So, 15% of those Superbowl winning QBs were drafted picks 1-5.

What percentage were drafted 6-10? 11-15? 16-20?

If you applied the same narrow scope to every other grouping of 5 specific picks in the NFL draft, you'd realize that our best odds at drafting a Superbowl Winning QB are clearly and demonstrably within the first 5 picks.

I don't understand why people throw logic under the bus to somehow rationalize their arguments based on which QB they prefer.

 

[dirkey]

Listen, if you look at the last few years of Arizona production and you see that by pure coincidence that Fitzgerald and Johnson had down seasons when Rosen happened to be the QB and you can't put 2 and 2 together, then that's on you.

Did you buy a Rosen jersey and you're trying to justify the purchase or something? Nothing you said makes any sense otherwise.

That's just such a disingenuous point, and I think you know it. You're glossing over the injuries to an already bad o line not to mention an awful head coach, oc combo. Things don't happen in a vacuum.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Actually, I never once defended Tammy. He was never a real QB. However our team is clearly worse than it ever was when Tammy was here. Plus, I have seen enough of your post to know that you need to learn a lot more about football before you should post again.

I believe that QBs drafted later go to better teams and have a higher chance of success because of those teams already have a supporting cast. These QBs usually set and learn for a season or 2.

QBs drafted in the top 5

2018 Baker Mayfield and Sam Dumba$$
2017 Mitchell Trubisky
2016 Goff and Wentz
2015 Winston and Mariota
2014 Blake Bortles LMAO
2013 ZERO!
2012 Luck and RGIII lmao
2011 Cam
2010 Sam Bradford
2009 Matt Stafford and Marky Sanchez
2008 Matt Ryan
2007 JaMarcuss Russell
2006 Vince Young
2005 Alex Smith
2004 Eli Manning SB winner and Rivers
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr and Joey Harrington
2001 Micheal Vick
2000 ZERO
1999 Tim Couch and Akili Smith
1998 Peyton Manning SB winner and Ryan Leaf
1997 ZERO
1996 ZERO
1995 Steve McNair and Kerry Collins
1994 Heath Shuler
1993 Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer
1992 ZERO
1991 ZERO
1990 Jeff George
1989 Troy Aikman SB winner

In the past 30 years, only 3 QBs that were drafted in the top 5 have won SBs. Most of these QBs were bust.

I need to learn football? Close to a quarter of the Super Bowls in the modern era have been won by #1 picks. Dude, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Kamelion4291]

That's just such a disingenuous point, and I think you know it. You're glossing over the injuries to an already bad o line not to mention an awful head coach, oc combo. Things don't happen in a vacuum.

Disingenuous is looking at a bad team and a bad offense, choosing to blame the Oline, head coach, and offensive coordinator, but not the QB. You're the one showing your bias.

 

[dirkey]

Disingenuous is looking at a bad team and a bad offense, choosing to blame the Oline, head coach, and offensive coordinator, but not the QB. You're the one showing your bias.

Please point me to where I stated any of the following :
A: that rosen did well in arizona
B: that I don't blame him for any failings / issues in arizona
C: that I believe rosen is the one for Miami
D: that I don't think we should draft tua

Perhaps you're mistaking me with someone else? Not sure what I'm biased about?

 

[Dolphins81]

I need to learn football? Close to a quarter of the Super Bowls in the modern era have been won by #1 picks. Dude, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Looks at the list again and use some comprehension skills.

In 30 years only, 35 QBs were drafted in the top 5. Only 3 won SBs! Of those 3, none would have won without the teams that they were on, especially Aikman! Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and won almost the same amount as these 3 QBs combined. Not because Tom was better but because of the TEAM he was on. 8% turned out to be winners! Where in the hell did you dream up 25%??? I would say that out of the 35, 19 of these QBs were bust or at best backups. So, over 50% chance your draft pick was wasted. The vast majority of superbowl winning QBs have been drafted outside of the top 5. Why, simple, football is a TEAM sport and it takes a TEAM to win. We don’t have a team! Our team between offense and defense, we have approximately 18 players on the field that are at the practice squad level. This is something posters like yourself fail to realize. Posters like you think that Tua is going to save us. He won’t! Tua and/or any QB will be a bust here. But with ungrateful fans like you, I say trade Rosen to the Patriots. He would set a year behind Brady and then rape us for 17 more years.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Looks at the list again and use some comprehension skills.

In 30 years only, 35 QBs were drafted in the top 5. Only 3 won SBs! Of those 3, none would have won without the teams that they were on, especially Aikman! Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and won almost the same amount as these 3 QBs combined. Not because Tom was better but because of the TEAM he was on. 8% turned out to be winners! Where in the hell did you dream up 25%??? I would say that out of the 35, 19 of these QBs were bust or at best backups. So, over 50% chance your draft pick was wasted. The vast majority of superbowl winning QBs have been drafted outside of the top 5. Why, simple, football is a TEAM sport and it takes a TEAM to win. We don’t have a team! Our team between offense and defense, we have approximately 18 players on the field that are at the practice squad level. This is something posters like yourself fail to realize. Posters like you think that Tua is going to save us. He won’t! Tua and/or any QB will be a bust here. But with ungrateful fans like you, I say trade Rosen to the Patriots. He would set a year behind Brady and then rape us for 17 more years.

You're cherrypicking to prove your own make believe point. And since I ACTUALLY know more football than you, here is the 25%...

Terry Bradshaw - 4 Super Bowls
Jim Plunkett - 2 Super Bowls
John Elway - 2 Super Bowls
Troy Aikman - 3 Super Bowls
Peyton Manning - 2 Super Bowls
Eli Manning - 2 Super Bowls

That's 15 Super Bowl victories by #1 overall QB picks. There have been 53 Super Bowls. Wait for it... 15/53 = 28.3%!

What do you know! Kid, if you're going to say I don't know football, at least come hard. You're a joke.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

You're cherrypicking to prove your own make believe point. And since I ACTUALLY know more football than you, here is the 25%...

Terry Bradshaw - 4 Super Bowls
Jim Plunkett - 2 Super Bowls
John Elway - 2 Super Bowls
Troy Aikman - 3 Super Bowls
Peyton Manning - 2 Super Bowls
Eli Manning - 2 Super Bowls

That's 15 Super Bowl victories by #1 overall QB picks. There have been 53 Super Bowls. Wait for it... 15/53 = 28.3%!

What do you know! Kid, if you're going to say I don't know football, at least come hard. You're a joke.

You do know 81 stated in the 'last 30 years' and you respond with Bradshaw and Plunkett. Looks like you confirmed his point.
But I don't lke the SB hurdle. Marino was an elite QB, but never won a SB. I'd like a few people to lokk at 81's list and name the elite QBs coming from top 5 picks. Not Pro Bowl. Not top 10. ELITE. I see PManning.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Dolphin fans of all people acting like it's Superbowl or bust for quarterbacks is hilarious. You're not guaranteed a superbowl no matter what.

The goal should be to have a QB that puts up points and wins games. Somebody that makes the games interesting and fun to watch - a QB that makes you feel like you always have a chance. Even down 3 TD's. A true franchise player.

Stop with the superbowl ring nonsense. That's a team accomplishment.

 

[mrbunglez]

Looks at the list again and use some comprehension skills.

In 30 years only, 35 QBs were drafted in the top 5. Only 3 won SBs! Of those 3, none would have won without the teams that they were on, especially Aikman! Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and won almost the same amount as these 3 QBs combined. Not because Tom was better but because of the TEAM he was on. 8% turned out to be winners! Where in the hell did you dream up 25%??? I would say that out of the 35, 19 of these QBs were bust or at best backups. So, over 50% chance your draft pick was wasted. The vast majority of superbowl winning QBs have been drafted outside of the top 5. Why, simple, football is a TEAM sport and it takes a TEAM to win. We don’t have a team! Our team between offense and defense, we have approximately 18 players on the field that are at the practice squad level. This is something posters like yourself fail to realize. Posters like you think that Tua is going to save us. He won’t! Tua and/or any QB will be a bust here. But with ungrateful fans like you, I say trade Rosen to the Patriots. He would set a year behind Brady and then rape us for 17 more years.

People said that about Tannehill and Henne, where are they now?

 

[Kamelion4291]

You do know 81 stated in the 'last 30 years' and you respond with Bradshaw and Plunkett. Looks like you confirmed his point.
But I don't lke the SB hurdle. Marino was an elite QB, but never won a SB. I'd like a few people to lokk at 81's list and name the elite QBs coming from top 5 picks. Not Pro Bowl. Not top 10. ELITE. I see PManning.

You seemed to have missed it. I stated that a quarter of Super Bowls in the "modern era", not the last 30 years, have been won by #1 overall picks. He responded asking me how I even came up with that. I listed it since apparently he was clueless.

He wanted to skew the argument in his favor by cherry-picking a more recent time frame which is kind of silly since a 30 year time frame means that QBs drafted #1 overall in the last decade that are currently playing could still end up winning a Super Bowl to further discredit him, just not right now, so really his "real" time frame is even smaller. Flat out, it's a dumb argument. #1 overall QBs historically give the best chance at a Super Bowl victory over any other draft position. That's inarguable.

Drafting one #1 guarantees nothing, obviously, but it's still your best shot.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

You seemed to have missed it. I stated that a quarter of Super Bowls in the "modern era", not the last 30 years, have been won by #1 overall picks. He responded asking me how I even came up with that. I listed it since apparently he was clueless.

He wanted to skew the argument in his favor by cherry-picking a more recent time frame which is kind of silly since a 30 year time frame means that QBs drafted #1 overall in the last decade that are currently playing could still end up winning a Super Bowl to further discredit him, just not right now, so really his "real" time frame is even smaller. Flat out, it's a dumb argument. #1 overall QBs historically give the best chance at a Super Bowl victory over any other draft position. That's inarguable.

Drafting one #1 guarantees nothing, obviously, but it's still your best shot.

Fair enough. No cherry picking. I'll use the complete history of the SB. In that time, about 50 QBs were drafted in the top 5. Of those 50, 10 won a SB. , close to the % you have. Looks like odds have become worse in the last 25-30 years.
You're right, . . . likely a higher % than lower picks, but that % is still low and, possibly, falling. And look at the QBs drafted in the last 5 years and are considered potential elites.

This is my nit to pick with those who 'KNOW' a particular QB will be elite. They don't. In any given year they may hit one, but over time? Nope. Will rosen be Miami's franchise QB? No idea, but the statistical odds are low. Is he a guaranteed bust? Don't know that either. All I want is to see him the rest of the decision and try to guess Flo's opinion.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Fair enough. No cherry picking. I'll use the complete history of the SB. In that time, about 50 QBs were drafted in the top 5. Of those 50, 10 won a SB. , close to the % you have. Looks like odds have become worse in the last 25-30 years.
You're right, . . . likely a higher % than lower picks, but that % is still low and, possibly, falling. And look at the QBs drafted in the last 5 years and are considered potential elites.

This is my nit to pick with those who 'KNOW' a particular QB will be elite. They don't. In any given year they may hit one, but over time? Nope. Will rosen be Miami's franchise QB? No idea, but the statistical odds are low. Is he a guaranteed bust? Don't know that either. All I want is to see him the rest of the decision and try to guess Flo's opinion.

I should hope that nobody expects Tua to automatically be elite. All I'm saying is that tanking this season that would have been lost anyway to take the best shot at actually finding that elite QB with the best player since Luck is the smart play. He could bust and we end up doing all of this for nothing, but I'd rather take the risks to be great rather than the safe, patch-the-holes philosophy we've been employing for decades.