Roster Notes vs strength of top of draft | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Roster Notes vs strength of top of draft

in some ways i think courtney upshaw at #7 is a little rich also...just cause i don't think he's one of those guys who's gonna test off the charts or wow you with his workouts etc...but i see an awful lot of lamar woodley when i watch him...very powerful strength player...very strong hands...

talent wise though i think ideally he falls somewhere in the teens...not top 10



Upshaw's 'value' would ideally probably fall in the teens somewhere, but there's not a more dominant defensive player in the country... and very few that can do what Upshaw can do in terms of fitting in perfectly within a 3-4. I think he legitimately makes his defense better the instant he steps on the field, much like Von Miller or Clay Matthews in that respect.

I think I'm getting a better player if I take Upshaw in the top 10 as opposed to Coples, for example... and I like Coples as a prospect.
 
The scheme fit is the only reason I'd put Coples below Upshaw, but that's a pretty significant factor so I don't feel bad about doing that. Coples though, if you want to pick out the next Jason Pierre-Paul, that's him.
 
I think all three of us are in agreement that Dave DeCastro is a special player and if Miami satisfied the QB position in some other manner I'm not shedding a tear over taking DeCastro at #7 overall.

Not a particularly inspiring position pick to me, but an inspiring player. Actually, a lot like the Pouncey pick which I gave a C grade because I hated the position choice/need but loved the player and predicted he'd be better than his brother which IMO he has been already even as a rookie.

i think mikes got more upside than maurkice...mike's a terrific athlete...outstanding move player and he's got better feet than his brother but not quite the same level strength at this stage
 
Wow, you really know how to argue your point "go clean out your ears" - how do I defend myself on that poetic line!

Let's talk out of both sides of our mouth too why don't you - "I don't think drafting a TE in the first round at #7 is the best thing but you rather select a TE than another OL." So you'll draft a 2nd rate TE over a potential stud OG just because he plays OL... watch out CK/TedSlimm there's a new draft sheriff in town, lol!

Can't wait to see what you come up with next, meanwhile I'll be cleaning my toes!

How do YOU know who is a second rate TE and who isn't? It is December. what happens if Orson Charles or Dwayne Allen run a 4.6 or better like Vernon Davis did at his workout?

could somebody please explain how taking a guard at #7 ever makes sense?

do teams not factor in value of position? is that maybe not the main reason why a pure guard has not been selected in the top 10 of the draft in forever?

Your hunger for deCastro is almost as ridiculous as your passion for DeSean Jackson who has as much chance of playing for Miami as you do.
 
Upshaw's 'value' would ideally probably fall in the teens somewhere, but there's not a more dominant defensive player in the country... and very few that can do what Upshaw can do in terms of fitting in perfectly within a 3-4. I think he legitimately makes his defense better the instant he steps on the field, much like Von Miller or Clay Matthews in that respect.

I think I'm getting a better player if I take Upshaw in the top 10 as opposed to Coples, for example... and I like Coples as a prospect.

i think its a safer choice...upshaw over coples...and i think i agree with the better player bit also...but upside wise coples has the kind of talent and measurables that get drafted in the top 5...but there's also a buyer beware element there that bothers me
 
i think mikes got more upside than maurkice...mike's a terrific athlete...outstanding move player and he's got better feet than his brother but not quite the same level strength at this stage

That's how I see it as well, but I prefer Mike's skill set at the Center position to Maurkice's skill set, which isn't as rare. You can find/develop a guy that looks and plays similar to Maurkice Pouncey in the later rounds. If you want a guy that looks and plays similar to Mike Pouncey you do usually have to draft him fairly high (not necessarily 1st round). My gripe was mainly that the impact of the position itself is not high and there's a reason so many of the best ones come from the 7th round, etc.
 
The scheme fit is the only reason I'd put Coples below Upshaw, but that's a pretty significant factor so I don't feel bad about doing that. Coples though, if you want to pick out the next Jason Pierre-Paul, that's him.

you think he's a move player on the level of jpp??? i mean jpp runs down stuff on the backside that he has no damn business getting to...if there's a 43 de in football that covers more ground than that kid i'd like to know who it is...cause i haven't seen it

i'm left with an open mouth when i watch jpp cover ground...he does stuff than you can't even prepare for blocking scheme wise on the backside...you can still run downhill at him when you run directly at him but in time i'm not sure you'll be able to do that either...he's cat quick and explosive as all get out
 
Coples is significantly better than Pierre-Paul was, particularly in terms of being an all around better player with a more complete game. Coples looks like Julius Peppers or Mario Williams. Lot bigger and stronger than JPP was, without sacrificing the athletic talent.

Another guy that I would consider is Melvin Ingram. I think he's the best athlete in the entire country on the defensive side of the football, and knows how to make plays. Extremely versatile.

I don't know that I've ever seen a kid his size with that level of athletic ability, and have movement skills that coordinated. He's a more natural runner in the open field than 60% of the skill position talent.
 
Coples is significantly better than Pierre-Paul was, particularly in terms of being an all around better player with a more complete game. Coples looks like Julius Peppers or Mario Williams. Lot bigger and stronger than JPP was, without sacrificing the athletic talent.

Another guy that I would consider is Melvin Ingram. I think he's the best athlete in the entire country on the defensive side of the football, and knows how to make plays. Extremely versatile.

I don't know that I've ever seen a kid his size with that level of athletic ability, and have movement skills that coordinated. He's a more natural runner in the open field than 60% of the skill position talent.

I've had my eye on Melvin Ingram...I've seen him rush the passer from a two point stance and I think he could be a strong side OLB in the 3-4. He's an extremely athletic guy for someone that big. Don't know that he'd be a great pass rusher but he could certainly set the edge and make plays against the run.
 
yeah mario williams or julius peppers is what i see when i watch coples also...and its hard not to get excited about that kind of talent and upside...very hard
 
Which specific player makers that are likely to be available at #8-12 have similar grades to DeCastro? Please specify. As to the importance of acquiring playmakers in this draft, as I said on the first page of this thread:

"My focus as to this draft has been and will continue to be Brandon Weeden. Weeden aside, I'm looking for value in the 1st round, with an eye on need."

I don't know who will be available at #7 (our current position) Nor do you. I would take any number of players from Barkley to Claiborne to Blackmon over De Castro You can tell me "theyt won't be there" but you don't know any of that yet including where we'll pick. We don't know how kids are going to test, who is even declaring etc and to put a right guard on a pedestal to me is ridiculous.

how many of you even understand line play or have watched game film on DeCastro? Not many, yet people in here are calling him a special player?? based on what? a scouting report from someone who doesn't work for an NFL team?

I like Weeden as well but not in the first round unless they can trade down. I like our odds of getting a playmaker better if we stay in the top 10 and don't draft another offensive lineman.

can it not be argued that since Wannstedt, Miami has devoted more free agent dollars and high draft picks to the offensive line than any other unit? That focus has come at a tremendous price, imo, a lack of difference makers in the draft.

If you ask me, Parcells and Co overdid it with the defensive line as well. It boggles my mind that we're year 4 into this regime and we don't have anything close to a franchise QB or a Jermaine Gresham or an Aaron Hernandez much less a Graham or Gronkowski

I think the focus should be less on acquiring more linemen in the draft and more on developing the players we have now. I like Pouncey but should it take a year for him to learn how to shotgun snap? You ever notice that Matt Moore looks like he's trying to catch a wet watermelon on every third and long? why can't they get John Jerry to the point where he isn't making mental mistakes? he's obviously physically talented. or find a real RT or get Vernon Carey's fat *** in shape so he isn't always hurt or getting beat?

Part of my problem with this "O-line all the time" draft mantra is that it ignores the fact that these players have to be developed and Tony S was supposed to be an O-line guru who has had all the time and resources needed to put together a good line and he hasn't. meanwhile we're sitting with Bills like talent at the skill positions.
 
How do YOU know who is a second rate TE and who isn't? It is December. what happens if Orson Charles or Dwayne Allen run a 4.6 or better like Vernon Davis did at his workout?

could somebody please explain how taking a guard at #7 ever makes sense?

do teams not factor in value of position? is that maybe not the main reason why a pure guard has not been selected in the top 10 of the draft in forever?

Your hunger for deCastro is almost as ridiculous as your passion for DeSean Jackson who has as much chance of playing for Miami as you do.

There it is, another great point "what if they run a 4.6 or better", that might just make them a #1 overall possibility. I didn't realize the combine time made a player even better. I guess you were on the Vernon Gholston band wagon over J.Long, lol.

If "hunger for DeCastro" you mean I'd take a potential great guard over a 2nd rate TE that runs a fast 40 time then you nailed it.
 
Coples is significantly better than Pierre-Paul was, particularly in terms of being an all around better player with a more complete game. Coples looks like Julius Peppers or Mario Williams. Lot bigger and stronger than JPP was, without sacrificing the athletic talent.

Another guy that I would consider is Melvin Ingram. I think he's the best athlete in the entire country on the defensive side of the football, and knows how to make plays. Extremely versatile.

I don't know that I've ever seen a kid his size with that level of athletic ability, and have movement skills that coordinated. He's a more natural runner in the open field than 60% of the skill position talent.

I agree that Coples is more developed at this point than Jason Pierre-Paul was coming out. I had a pretty clear vision for what Pierre-Paul would become once he grew into his own body, but Quinton Coples has already grown into his significant body to some extent and is playing better, more consistent football at UNC than Pierre-Paul did at USF.

Mario Williams is another comparison I like, although the thing I dislike about that comparison is to me Mario Williams was even less consistent than Coples is.

Interesting thoughts about Melvin Ingram. I can honestly say I've not even once sat down to look at him.
 
There it is, another great point "what if they run a 4.6 or better", that might just make them a #1 overall possibility. I didn't realize the combine time made a player even better. I guess you were on the Vernon Gholston band wagon over J.Long, lol.

If "hunger for DeCastro" you mean I'd take a potential great guard over a 2nd rate TE that runs a fast 40 time then you nailed it.

Son, you have a lot to learn. Is Vernon Davis a second rate TE? He went from nowhere in December to top 10 by draft day. Running a fast 40 opened the door for him to rise up the draft boards.

You should look into Dwayne Allen and Orson Charles before dismissing them. I guess that's what amateur Kipers do. They make all their picks in December and if you dare to question them, you're dead wrong.

Taking any guard top 10 is silly. Especially when your team has so much invested in the rest of their O-line. You can't defend it

as for Gholston I wasn't in his corner. I was a Matt Ryan guy. Guess i was wrong there, too.
 
I agree that Coples is more developed at this point than Jason Pierre-Paul was coming out. I had a pretty clear vision for what Pierre-Paul would become once he grew into his own body, but Quinton Coples has already grown into his significant body to some extent and is playing better, more consistent football at UNC than Pierre-Paul did at USF.

Mario Williams is another comparison I like, although the thing I dislike about that comparison is to me Mario Williams was even less consistent than Coples is.

Interesting thoughts about Melvin Ingram. I can honestly say I've not even once sat down to look at him.


If you decide to sit down once to look at Melvin Ingram, be prepared to keep sittin' there a while.

The first thing that will make you gasp is the caliber of athlete he is for that size. It's indeed very, very rare.

Furthermore, you won't knock his motor or consistency.

The biggest question you'll come away asking yourself is, "Where do I play this guy"?

DE? DT? OLB?



Running back? :d-day:
 
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