Running Back "Controversy" | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Running Back "Controversy"

Agent51 said:
EXACTLY, jeez, good to see ONE other fan who wants Benson too. Plus, I was just coming here to post that I was reading some more scouting reports and came across the following:

"Benson is an effective receiver out of the backfield and would give a club a ball control presence needed to keep quarterbacks healthy."

So now that Brown's recieving edge is taken away and they are back to a level playing field with most of the other pros and cons, back into play comes the durability and workhorse factor, and Bensone BY FAR wins that. He is getting a bad rap cuz of an "average" Pro Day, but since when does running some drills on ONE DAY of your career determine the tpye of player you are overall? Just look at what this guy did in college:

One of only THREE players in NCAA HISTORY to rush for more than 5,000yds and score more than 400 points in his career. 2nd in school history with 6,161 all-purpose yards and 1st Longhorn to rush for 1,000yds in four seasons and run for 12 or more TDs each year. 5,540 yds and 64 TDs on 1,112 attempts (that's a 4.98yds per carry avg). Only 84 attempts of the 1,112 were for a loss (that's only SEVEN %!). 56% of his yards were after contact (that's 3,203.7 yds after contact). Had 100 yds or more in 25 games.

He has TWICE the career rushing attempts as Brown and almost FOUR-HUNDRED more than Williams, I THINK he is perfectly capable of handling the load, with NO doubts or questions. I don't care who you are, casual fan, die hard fan, "expert analst", NFL scout, head coach, you have to have SOME thought on the durability of Brown
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I AGREE 100% BENSON IS PROVEN HE CAN CARRY THE BALL A WHOLE GAME AND EVEN A WHOLE SEASON YES I WOULD TAKE BENSON OVER BROWN ANYDAY:evil:
 
Actually, this board was all Benson at the beginning. Brown moved up b/c he was viewed as the more complete back. Brown is also unquestioanbly more of a team player. Linehan's offense prefers complete backs and Saban loves versatile, team players.

You also left out several "cons" for Benson. Specifically, pass blocking, catching and character. In a league that places increasing emphasis on the pass, catching and pass blocking skills are as important as running skills. As for character, Benson fans will minimize his poor decisions, but I'm not sure Saban will. And whatever you believe Benson's character to be it is clearly not as good as Brown's. IMO Benson was never a likely pick. An LSU fan once posted that Saban had coached against all three of the top backs and that the only one Saban ever gushed about and called a "difference maker" was Brown. I'm not sure that we'll take a RB at #2 (I hope not), but my guess is that the #1 RB on Saban's board is Brown.
 
PhinstiGator said:
Something is instinctively wrong about this post.
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Oops, sorry bout that, it was a typo. Like I said, those Pros and Cons are't my own (except the part at the end of Browns con about the durability) and I copied it wrong from the scouting report, it is SUPPOSED to say "has great instincts in reading the rush, and is willing to block it" and the lack of instincts is supposed to be "lacks great instinct at finding the hole, doesn't have the 'vision' that most great RBs have'".
 
rafael said:
Actually, this board was all Benson at the beginning. Brown moved up b/c he was viewed as the more complete back. Brown is also unquestioanbly more of a team player. Linehan's offense prefers complete backs and Saban loves versatile, team players.

You also left out several "cons" for Benson. Specifically, pass blocking, catching and character. In a league that places increasing emphasis on the pass, catching and pass blocking skills are as important as running skills. As for character, Benson fans will minimize his poor decisions, but I'm not sure Saban will. And whatever you believe Benson's character to be it is clearly not as good as Brown's. IMO Benson was never a likely pick. An LSU fan once posted that Saban had coached against all three of the top backs and that the only one Saban ever gushed about and called a "difference maker" was Brown. I'm not sure that we'll take a RB at #2 (I hope not), but my guess is that the #1 RB on Saban's board is Brown.
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maybe his blocking reads aren't as good as Brown's, but I just updated with the "effective reciever" post. Again, while his character might not be AS GOOD as Brown's, I still don't think it is BAD, and I don't think Brown's character is LIGHTYEARS above Benson's to merrit being taken first. People keep saying Brown is the more "complete" back, but you are all basing it on what he did in basically HALF seasons. We KNOW what Cedric will give us game after game, play after play, and down the stretch, the NFL is a BIG stage for Ronnie to have to prove he can play all, or most, of the downs in a game and last the season. I said it before, Brown never carried more than 175 times a season, never STARTED more than 7 games a season, Benson started 46 games (11 and 1/2 games/season avg) and averaged 278 carries a season Not only do I consider Benson's durability, skill, and work load capabilities a MAJOR plus, but he is also the underdog to Brown, which could HELP us, because we can trade down, get more picks AND still get Benson
 
Agent51 said:
maybe his blocking reads aren't as good as Brown's, but I just updated with the "effective reciever" post. Again, while his character might not be AS GOOD as Brown's, I still don't think it is BAD, and I don't think Brown's character is LIGHTYEARS above Benson's to merrit being taken first. People keep saying Brown is the more "complete" back, but you are all basing it on what he did in basically HALF seasons. We KNOW what Cedric will give us game after game, play after play, and down the stretch, the NFL is a BIG stage for Ronnie to have to prove he can play all, or most, of the downs in a game and last the season. I said it before, Brown never carried more than 175 times a season, never STARTED more than 7 games a season, Benson started 46 games (11 and 1/2 games/season avg) and averaged 278 carries a season Not only do I consider Benson's durability, skill, and work load capabilities a MAJOR plus, but he is also the underdog to Brown, which could HELP us, because we can trade down, get more picks AND still get Benson
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"effective receiver" is not the same as "excellent receiver"
 
inFINSible said:
"effective receiver" is not the same as "excellent receiver"
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Yeah, and RUNNING BACK isn't the same as RECEIVER either
 
Agent51 said:
Yeah, and RUNNING BACK isn't the same as RECIEVER either
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And Brown has a higher higher YPC, faster 40 time, faster 20 time, faster shuttle time, and bigger size.....what's all that mean? Anything?
 
Saban said its how productive they are on the field not their 40 times that make a difference.
 
inFINSible said:
And Brown has a higher higher YPC, faster 40 time, faster 20 time, faster shuttle time, and bigger size.....what's all that mean? Anything?
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It means if Brown PLAYED EVERY DOWN and FULL SEASONS like Benson his YP averages would be lower.
He is 2 inches taller and only 8 pounds heavier, Benson can put on 8 pounds.
And it just means, like I said before, that Benson Had a bad DAY and Brown had a good DAY.
CAREER-wise do Benson's numbers mean anything to you? How about the fact tha Ronnie isn't proven that he can last a whole season as a feature back, in ANYONE's system, be it "pass to setup the run" or run heavy, let alone in the LONGER, MORE INTENSE level of play NFL. Brown has been worn down to injury in his "half" seasons at Auburn before, and averaged FOURTEEN carries a game. What team are you gonna get by on 14 carries with in the NFL? People seem to be brushing this off though, and I hope we don't draft him only for him to get worn down and be a bust. Get injured and never fully recover. When it comes down to it I will take an "EFFECTIVE" receiving RUNNING BACK that is used to a heavy workload and can last the season and take the beatings over an "EXCELLENT" receiving RUNNING BACK that got no more than 7 starts a season and 175 carries a season ANY day
 
Agent51 said:
maybe his blocking reads aren't as good as Brown's, but I just updated with the "effective reciever" post. Again, while his character might not be AS GOOD as Brown's, I still don't think it is BAD, and I don't think Brown's character is LIGHTYEARS above Benson's to merrit being taken first. People keep saying Brown is the more "complete" back, but you are all basing it on what he did in basically HALF seasons. We KNOW what Cedric will give us game after game, play after play, and down the stretch, the NFL is a BIG stage for Ronnie to have to prove he can play all, or most, of the downs in a game and last the season. I said it before, Brown never carried more than 175 times a season, never STARTED more than 7 games a season, Benson started 46 games (11 and 1/2 games/season avg) and averaged 278 carries a season Not only do I consider Benson's durability, skill, and work load capabilities a MAJOR plus, but he is also the underdog to Brown, which could HELP us, because we can trade down, get more picks AND still get Benson
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I don't see Benson as light years ahead of Brown in running skills either. In fact, I have doubts that Benson will be as effective as Brown in the NFL. Benson may not have enough speed to get to the edge in the NFL. I believe that is one of the reasons that the bulk of Benson's production came against weak teams. The weak teams didn't have as much speed so he was able to get the big runs.

On the other hand, I believe Brown is way better at recieving and route running. Brown is a far superior pass blocker and that the character issue is not even close.

The only question about Brown is whether he could be the feature back over several seasons. (He was the guy for 1 season) I don't see that as a big question mark. First of all he was on the field all 4 seasons a either a runner or fullback. He probably took more punishment as a lead blocker than as runner, so I don't see durability as a concern. Second, I'm not sure he will be used as a runner play after play in Linehan's offense.

I believe we could trade down and still get any of the RBs. RBs almost always fall on draft day. Of course Benson will probably be available further down b/c he has more question marks.
 
Agent51 said:
It means if Brown PLAYED EVERY DOWN and FULL SEASONS like Benson his YP averages would be lower.
He is 2 inches taller and only 8 pounds heavier, Benson can put on 8 pounds.
And it just means, like I said before, that Benson Had a bad DAY and Brown had a good DAY.
CAREER-wise do Benson's numbers mean anything to you? How about the fact tha Ronnie isn't proven that he can last a whole season as a feature back, in ANYONE's system, be it "pass to setup the run" or run heavy, let alone in the LONGER, MORE INTENSE level of play NFL. Brown has been worn down to injury in his "half" seasons at Auburn before, and averaged FOURTEEN carries a game. What team are you gonna get by on 14 carries with in the NFL? People seem to be brushing this off though, and I hope we don't draft him only for him to get worn down and be a bust. Get injured and never fully recover. When it comes down to it I will take an "EFFECTIVE" receiving RUNNING BACK that is used to a heavy workload and can last the season and take the beatings over an "EXCELLENT" receiving RUNNING BACK that got no more than 7 starts a season and 175 carries a season ANY day
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The man is bigger than Benson, is a unanimous top 5 pick and doesn't have the mileage that Benson has already racked up.....i don't know where you get half the stuff you're saying but, Brown hasn't been "worn down" in college and when he was asked to carry the load, he responded with over 1000 yards in 7 games...

I put about a penny's worth of valdity to the argument that Benson can carry the load and Brown can't. It's not even an issue.
 
rafael said:
I don't see Benson as light years ahead of Brown in running skills either. In fact, I have doubts that Benson will be as effective as Brown in the NFL. Benson may not have enough speed to get to the edge in the NFL. I believe that is one of the reasons that the bulk of Benson's production came against weak teams. The weak teams didn't have as much speed so he was able to get the big runs.

On the other hand, I believe Brown is way better at recieving and route running. Brown is a far superior pass blocker and that the character issue is not even close.

The only question about Brown is whether he could be the feature back over several seasons. (He was the guy for 1 season) I don't see that as a big question mark. First of all he was on the field all 4 seasons a either a runner or fullback. He probably took more punishment as a lead blocker than as runner, so I don't see durability as a concern. Second, I'm not sure he will be used as a runner play after play in Linehan's offense.

I believe we could trade down and still get any of the RBs. RBs almost always fall on draft day. Of course Benson will probably be available further down b/c he has more question marks.
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If Benson doesn't have enough speed then Brown doesn't, Brown ran a 4.48 and a 4.51, in his "EXCELLENT" combine showing, Benson ran a 4.51 and 4.54 at his "POOR" Pro Day showing. PLUS, Saban himself, you know, really the only guy who matters in this debate, said it's perfomance on the field, not 40 times and workouts, that are the judge, and I think Benson had a better career
 
Agent51 said:
If Benson doesn't have enough speed then Brown doesn't, Brown ran a 4.48 and a 4.51, in his "EXCELLENT" combine showing, Benson ran a 4.51 and 4.54 at his "POOR" Pro Day showing. PLUS, Saban himself, you know, really the only guy who matters in this debate, said it's perfomance on the field, not 40 times and workouts, that are the judge, and I think Benson had a better career
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What was wrong with Benson on his pro day? Why did he have a "poor" showing?

Maybe Brown had an "excellent" showing because he's actually excellent???
 
inFINSible said:
The man is bigger than Benson, is a unanimous top 5 pick and doesn't have the mileage that Benson has already racked up.....i don't know where you get half the stuff you're saying but, Brown hasn't been "worn down" in college and when he was asked to carry the load, he responded with over 1000 yards in 7 games...

I put about a penny's worth of valdity to the argument that Benson can carry the load and Brown can't. It's not even an issue.
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Where does YOUR information come from? He didn't get 1,000 in 7 games, he got 1,000 in a WHOLE SEASON, he only had 7 STARTS, as in, STARTING OVER WILLIAMS at HB, not just PLAYING in 7 games:

"Never started more than seven games in a season and rushed for 1,000 yards just once in college career. Carried 513 times for 2,707 yards and 28 touchdowns, with career best of 1,008 yards in 2002. Had 58 catches for 668 yards and two TDs, including 34 receptions in 2004." - ESPN.com

You say his recieving is "lightyears" ahead of Benson, hmmm:

"Added 69 catches for 621 yards and three touchdowns." - ESPN.com

More catches, 47 less yards, and more touchdowns recieving for Cedric, so "I put about a penny's worth of validity to the argument that Brown is 'way better at receiving' than Benson, it's not even an issue"
 
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