Running Back "Controversy"

[Agent51]

What was wrong with Benson on his pro day? Why did he have a "poor" showing?

Maybe Brown had an "excellent" showing because he's actually excellent???

I don't know why he had a "poor" showing, read all the scouting reports, they all say Benson had a poor showing and has had "a string of bad workouts" yet he was still .03 shy of Brown's 40 times on brown's EXCELLENT showings

And Brown had a few injuries in college, even in his non-full time roles

 

[jason_taylor]

What was wrong with Benson on his pro day? Why did he have a "poor" showing?

Maybe Brown had an "excellent" showing because he's actually excellent???

WELLL ILLLLL TELL YOU WHY BROWN HAD A BETTER DAY IT WAS BECAUSE BROWN RAN ON THE COLTS FIELD NO GIVE ON THAT FEILD AND THE FEILD THAT BENSON RAN ON WAS ALOT PORER FIELD WITH ALOT OF GIVE PUT BROWN ON THE SAME FIELD THAT BENSON RAN ON AND I BET YOU THAT BROWN WOULDNT HAVE A FASTER SPEED THAN BENSON NO MATER WHAT BENSON IS THE BETTER BACK AND HE WILL PROVE IT WHEN HE GETS TO THE NFL :evil: AND EVEN WHEN BROWN SPLIT CARRIES WITH CADDY HE GOT INJURED :shakeno: THAT PROVES IF YOU CANT EVEN SPLIT TIME AND STAY HEALTHY WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE CAN GO 16 GAMES :shakeno:

 

[inFINSible]

Where does YOUR information come from? He didn't get 1,000 in 7 games, he got 1,000 in a WHOLE SEASON, he only had 7 STARTS, as in, STARTING OVER WILLIAMS at HB, not just PLAYING in 7 games:

"Never started more than seven games in a season and rushed for 1,000 yards just once in college career. Carried 513 times for 2,707 yards and 28 touchdowns, with career best of 1,008 yards in 2002. Had 58 catches for 668 yards and two TDs, including 34 receptions in 2004." - ESPN.com

You say his recieving is "lightyears" ahead of Benson, hmmm:

"Added 69 catches for 621 yards and three touchdowns." - ESPN.com

More catches, 47 less yards, and more touchdowns recieving for Cedric, so "I put about a penny's worth of validity to the argument that Brown is 'way better at receiving' than Benson, it's not even an issue"

In 2002...as a sophmore
"Led the team in rushing with 1,008 yards on 175 carries (5.8 average) and 13 touchdowns ... Scored 11 touchdowns and rushed for 831 yards on 144 carries (5.8 avg.) and averaged 138.5 yards a game in last six games ... "...when he was the starter.

Benson had 10 more catches, in 4 years as a starter and 5 billion more plays.

 

[Agent51]

In 2002...as a sophmore
"Led the team in rushing with 1,008 yards on 175 carries (5.8 average) and 13 touchdowns ... Scored 11 touchdowns and rushed for 831 yards on 144 carries (5.8 avg.) and averaged 138.5 yards a game in last six games ... "...when he was the starter.

Benson had 10 more catches, in 4 years as a starter and 5 billion more plays.

you keep going back to how much better a receiver Brown is, except we are debating RUNNING BACKS, while receiving IS an aspect of the position, it isn't even close to being everything. Not to mention you said yourself "while Brown didn;t START all the games, he was still on the field for the whole game, be it tail or full back" so he played just as many plays and Benson was still ahead in catching stats. Benson is the better runner, I have shot down your "Brown is faster" logic by showing you his 40 times, and Benson ran on grass, that has more give than the astroturf that Brown ran on, PLUS all the scouts RAVED about Brown's "amazing" workout and it even shot him up and EVERYONE's boards, even Keiper's, but who was the #1 back BEFORE the combine? BENSON, and he chose not to work out there, and the scouts say he has had bad workouts so far at Pro Day and the team workouts, yet he still posted times ALMOST even with Brown even while brown had astroturf and a great day and Benson has had grass and bad days. put Benson on astroturf on a good day and I bet he BEATS Brown. PLus Brown never ran 40s for his Pro Day or team workouts, he has stuck with the combine times, I bet ecause he doesn't wanna be slower on the grass.

 

[inFINSible]

you keep going back to how much better a receiver Brown is, except we are debating RUNNING BACKS, while receiving IS an aspect of the position, it isn't even close to being everything. Not to mention you said yourself "while Brown didn;t START all the games, he was still on the field for the whole game, be it tail or full back" so he played just as many plays and Benson was still ahead in catching stats. Benson is the better runner, I have shot down your "Brown is faster" logic by showing you his 40 times, and Benson ran on grass, that has more give than the astroturf that Brown ran on, PLUS all the scouts RAVED about Brown's "amazing" workout and it even shot him up and EVERYONE's boards, even Keiper's, but who was the #1 back BEFORE the combine? BENSON, and he chose not to work out there, and the scouts say he has had bad workouts so far at Pro Day and the team workouts, yet he still posted times ALMOST even with Brown even while brown had astroturf and a great day and Benson has had grass and bad days. put Benson on astroturf on a good day and I bet he BEATS Brown. PLus Brown never ran 40s for his Pro Day or team workouts, he has stuck with the combine times, I bet ecause he doesn't wanna be slower on the grass.

So, now it's bad dayS not just one bad day huh....You can spin and twist and do whetever you want, the fact remains that if Benson was faster than Brown he would prove it. Being slower doesn't do anything but cost him money in draft position. If he was able to run faster, he would.

We aren't going to agree on this and frankly there's no point in continuing to argue about it...I think Brown is the better more complete back and his skills will translate better to the NFL...Nothing you say is going to change that.

 

[Agent51]

So, now it's bad dayS not just one bad day huh....You can spin and twist and do whetever you want, the fact remains that if Benson was faster than Brown he would prove it. Being slower doesn't do anything but cost him money in draft position. If he was able to run faster, he would.

We aren't going to agree on this and frankly there's no point in continuing to argue about it...I think Brown is the better more complete back and his skills will translate better to the NFL...Nothing you say is going to change that.

I always said dayS, if you read an earlier post I QUOTED a sight a saying "a STRING of bad workoutS" thus implying more than one day

You are right, we aren't going to see, I just hope we don't waste the #2 on Brown when we can TRADE DOWN and get a better back in Benson, and we WILL see who turns into the better back in the NFL. If Brown turns out to be better, I will gladly admit I was wrong, but I don't forsee having to do that, no matter which one, if any, plays for our team

 

[BlueFin]

OK, here is a question I have been wondering since day 1 of the draft talks:

WHY is everyone so adamant about Ronnie Brown for us? Not only people on the boards but even the "professional analysts" give us Brown without a second thought. Let's compare the two best choices at RB for us here (Brown and Cedric Benson)

Ronnie Brown (6'0", 233lbs):

Pros - Size, Speed, and Power, said to be built like a fullback but with the speed of a tailback. Great acceleration. "Will finish every run". Great recieving skills, said to have "WR-caliber hands" and can make adjustments on the ball and cath em downfield. Has great instincts in reading the rush, and is willing to block. Great character and leadership qualities.

Cons - Not very elusive, he's a pretty "straight ahead" runner. Lacks great instinct at finding the hole, doesn't have the 'vision' that most great RBs have. Not a great initial burts either. The most important con on Ronnie however would be that he has never been a feature back. They key thing here is Miami isn't JUST looking for a running back, we are looking for a WORKHORSE. We need someone to take the heat of AJ so he can get the ball to Chris and Randy and Marty and maybe David Boston if he comes back. Ricky was a workhorse for us. Ronnie Brown has never carried more than 175 times in a season, that's only an average of 15 carries a game, and thats in the SHORTER college season. How is someone who has never been a full time starter or feature back, or carried more than 15 times a game going to step in and carry the ball at least DOUBLE that EVERY GAME for SIXTEEN GAMES for us without getting injured or worn down? Not to mention he has been injured before, in a shorter season at a lower level of football while not even taking all the carries. THOSE are the most important stats to evaluate when it comes to Brown, yeah, his combine and workout numbers are amazing, as were his college numbers for someone who split time and never STARTED over 7 games in a season, but that is also his biggest drawback, I don't think he can handle the workload that Miami will need him to. I think he would be a better fit in another system that has a RB already where he can sit out a season or two, or at least split time, gradually moving into full time starter and feature back, in order for his body to adjust.

Cedric Benson (5'10, 225lbs):

Pros - "Classic workhorse back". Tough guy who is USED to carrying 20-25 times a game. Can "erode" defenses in the 4th. VERY durable and will play hurt. Runs low and powers through tackles. Great cutback ability. Good body control. Has patience and great vision. CAN EXPLODE THROUGH HOLES AND CREATE OPENINGS WHEN HIS BLOCKING FAILS (perfect for Miami, since our O-Line is nothing to write home about). "In terms of career production and workload, he is the most proven tailback in the draft". PLUS, this guy IDOLIZES Ricky Williams and modeled his game after him (obviosuly not the weed thing) and Ricky fit PERFECTLY into our system, he was a workhorse back with big play capabilites, plus the toughness and power to plow through people AND the moves to make tem miss, exactly what Benson is, exactly what we NEED.

Cons - Not as agile as Brown. Some trouble route running. Some fumble trouble last year.

How all the mock drafts have Brown being taken at #2 instead of Benson is beyond me, unless they are purely based on workouts and the combine. Benson has better carreer #s and better fits OUR system. We don't need a guy that is gonna split time or a guy that can't handle the workload, we need a guy that will carry our workload and carry it effectively, through all 16 games AND the post season if we make it. Even if Brown started off strong he would taper off towards mid season, cuz mid season with all the carries he'd be getting would be like a whole season splitting time at Auburn. We don't have time to nurse a RB along to condition him for the NFL, maybe if we had a starter right now we could take Ronnie and mold him for a year or two and gradually ease him in, but we don't, we need a guy that will hop in, can handle the work, and will make a difference right away, and that is Cedric Benson, not Ronnie Brown.

Where to start? Who says we are looking for a workhorse back? This is not going to be "wadball" (Sabans term), Dave Wannstedt isn't here anymore.

Your evaluations of the two backs are so biased to Benson it was a a good laugh reading it.

Brown was more productive than Benson both per carry and per catch, he got more out of every touch than Benson did. I personally don't care that Texas gave Benson the ball 35 times a game.

Benson has character issues and he has a history of not being very productive against the better teams, he just didn't make a lot happen in their biggest games.

This is not to say Benson won't be a decent back in the NFL, but the fact is Brown is faster than Benson, he is bigger than Benson, he is a better receiver than Benson and he averaged more yards per carry than Benson.

 

[larfo2224]

Beings you are on the Benson bandwagon, you seem to have tainted those cons to favor him and alluded to a whole lot of nothing about Brown. Both are extremely talented backs and should do well in the NFL. I would favor Brown for the system we are going to be running. Hopefully it works out. Alot of good in depth stats though.

 

[Agent51]

Where to start? Who says we are looking for a workhorse back? This is not going to be "wadball" (Sabans term), Dave Wannstedt isn't here anymore.

Your evaluations of the two backs are so biased to Benson it was a a good laugh reading it.

Brown was more productive than Benson both per carry and per catch, he got more out of every touch than Benson did. I personally don't care that Texas gave Benson the ball 35 times a game.

Benson has character issues and he has a history of not being very productive against the better teams, he just didn't make a lot happen in their biggest games.

This is not to say Benson won't be a decent back in the NFL, but the fact is Brown is faster than Benson, he is bigger than Benson, he is a better receiver than Benson and he averaged more yards per carry than Benson.

Those actually aren't MY evaluations, in the "pros and cons" anyway, they are copy/pasted from ESPN, NFL, and Sportsline.com You, as did another person, says Brown's averages were higher, of course they would be, he ran HALF as much as Benson, you can't run it 30 times a game and get 7 or 8 EVERY time, and the more you run the more fatigued you become, thus the less yards you gain. Given Brown's measly 13-15 carries a game he never had the chance to get the fatigue so of course he could continuosly rip off 7-10 yarders, thus boosting is averages.

and to the guy who said I;m on the Benson "bandwagon", WHAT bandwagon, I know of maybe THREE fans, including myself, that want Benson. I have wanted him ever since I knew we'd be high enough to take him. Everyone jumped on the BROWN bandwagon. Everone wanted Benson til Brown has his "magnificant" combine times, people even said "this board used to be all for Benson", so don't tell ME about bandwagoning. You all wanted him in the begining, BEFORE the combine, then everyone, but me and a few others, changed cuz Brown had a great showing. Well, lemme tell you, if everyone is gonna suddenly think Benson is overrated and Brown BLOWS HIM OUT OF THE WATER in skills etc etc, based on a freakin COMBINE workout, then I HOPE we draft Brown and he TANKS, jus so I can say I told you so. I never said Benson KILLS Brown in skill, I know Brown is an amazing talent, in fact, all along, and you can read ALL my posts, my only grips has been what will his durability be like, if he was on an even playing field with Benson there, ie, playing full seasons as a feature back, then I might also like Brown over Benson.

 

[Dolphinfan_7]

i think we sould take benson

 

[arsenal]

hmmm i remember when people talked about best player available... not best player available that will fit into the new coordinators system he ran on a different team...

 

[BAMAPHIN 22]

Good Post.. But you should take into consideration that our new OC's philosophy.. Multiple offensive sets utilizing both the running backs and receivers. Under his system the running backs at Minnesota were an integral part of the system but not as workhorses. They had to be very versatile i.e, running catching, and blocking etc... That's why I think R. Brown is a perfect fit for this type of offensive scheme.

 

[Agent51]

Good Post.. But you should take into consideration that our new OC's philosophy.. Multiple offensive sets utilizing both the running backs and receivers. Under his system the running backs at Minnesota were an integral part of the system but not as workhorses. They had to be very versatile i.e, running catching, and blocking etc... That's why I think R. Brown is a perfect fit for this type of offensive scheme.

That is a good point, and one I have considered, but also take into account that Saban has blatantly said NONE of the three warrant a #2 overall, and that he is actively looking to trade down, THIS is also why Benson is so appealing. EVERY board has Brown and #1 and a lot even have Williams at 2 and Benson at 3, so we could trade down, get an extra pick or maybe even two, and STILL get Benson, whereas if we trade down Brown might not still be there. Also, there is another thread with Saban quoted as saying it's not about finding a running back for your system, you can adapt your system to their style (paraphrased) so this implies that he isn't necessarily looking for a running back that fits into the new system.