Running QB's on the decline | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Running QB's on the decline

injured...

Vick, McNab, Culpepper, Leftwich, all sustained initial injuries while running. In fact, this is one of the key reasons (again, one key reason) all of these QB's are being COACHED to...

1. focus down field
2. read the coverage
3. go through progressions
4. throw to check down
5. throw ball away and live another down

Only in Vicks case, has tuck and run been suggested. In fact, one problem with the Falcons is that they are coaching Vick counter to his instinct but they also recognize they have to call plays where he keeps the ball on naked boots, and delay draws to move the sticks.

But it still remains. He is being coached like everyone else (see 5 progressions).

The theme of this thread (I know because I started it) is that that style of running QB play is wanning, deminishing, deemphasized, uncoached, use whatever word you wish. It is not the compelling driver in NFL QB evaluations and drafts.

It is arm strength, ability to make all the throws, ability to read defenses, coachability, leadership, and down the list is mobility. In fact, i would say size and arm strength are more attractive attributes than ability to run with the ball.

In the NFL, you hand the ball off.

It is not to say that to a limited extent, the running QB has no role...but it's in college football not the NFL. (See Kordell Stewart)

Pocket passers are far more effective across the board vs running QB's.

The evidence is in the last 10 SB's. Remember when the Rams beat the titans? who QB'd the titans, a very mobile, running QB type...he's too old now to run, see his injuries.

Remember when the Ravens won the SB? What was that stiffs name? Where is he playing now? Why?

Look at the WINNING SB teams...what style of QB did those teams win with?

Point made.
 
a couple things I've noticed from the thread.

1)Leftwich is not a scrambling QB, he's a pure pocket passer. Hell, he calls himself Mike Brick because everytime he tries to run he stumbles.

2)Westbrook is not a good RB in the sense of running. Ryan Moats has had more big plays running in 2 games than Westy had all year until his injury. He's more of a passing threat, not a running threat.

Now to my opinion on scrambling QBs, there's only one in the NFL that is successful (Mike Vick). Vince Young will be only the 2nd running QB in the NFL when he comes out.

Guys like McNabb, Culpepper, McNair they all scrambled to make plays when they were younger, but now they are more patient and only run when they need to.

That's what most teams need. A QB that is not eager to run, but will run to make a play. The only 2 QB in the NFL that don't run much that and are successful are Brady and Manning (to a lesser extent Hasselback and Green). Guys like Bledsoe need a lot of protection to stay on their feet; he doesn't run even when there's no other option.

The only starting QBs in the NFL that are not good runners are The Mannings, Brady,Green, Ferrotte, and Bledsoe. The only starting QB that is more effective scrambling is Vick.
 
phinfreak said:
Vick, McNab, Culpepper, Leftwich, all sustained initial injuries while running. In fact, this is one of the key reasons (again, one key reason) all of these QB's are being COACHED to...

1. focus down field
2. read the coverage
3. go through progressions
4. throw to check down
5. throw ball away and live another down

Only in Vicks case, has tuck and run been suggested. In fact, one problem with the Falcons is that they are coaching Vick counter to his instinct but they also recognize they have to call plays where he keeps the ball on naked boots, and delay draws to move the sticks.

But it still remains. He is being coached like everyone else (see 5 progressions).

The theme of this thread (I know because I started it) is that that style of running QB play is wanning, deminishing, deemphasized, uncoached, use whatever word you wish. It is not the compelling driver in NFL QB evaluations and drafts.

It is arm strength, ability to make all the throws, ability to read defenses, coachability, leadership, and down the list is mobility. In fact, i would say size and arm strength are more attractive attributes than ability to run with the ball.

In the NFL, you hand the ball off.

It is not to say that to a limited extent, the running QB has no role...but it's in college football not the NFL. (See Kordell Stewart)

Pocket passers are far more effective across the board vs running QB's.

The evidence is in the last 10 SB's. Remember when the Rams beat the titans? who QB'd the titans, a very mobile, running QB type...he's too old now to run, see his injuries.

Remember when the Ravens won the SB? What was that stiffs name? Where is he playing now? Why?

Look at the WINNING SB teams...what style of QB did those teams win with?

Point made.

McNabb got hurt making a tackle on an interception.

LEFTWICH IS NOT A RUNNING QUARTERBACK!!! Even if he was hurt while scrambling that doesn't make him a running quarterback. Marino ran from time to time, if he was hurt during these runs it wouldn't make him a running quarterback. Leftwich is SLOW. He is freaking slow. He is about a 5.0 40 type slow. Peyton Manning is more of a running quarterback than Leftwich. In fact the only thing that Leftwich has in common with McNabb, Cullpepper and Vick is a strong arm and the color of his skin.
 
You are just plain wrong. McNab REAGGRAVATED A HIATAL HERNIA trying to tackle a defender...which by the way, intercepted his pass in a 3 INT game for the eagles.

Leftwich is not a running QB, but he definitely relies on his size and mobility vs throwing the ball away. But for arguments sake, we'll leave him out.

Vick is way overrated as is McNab. Culpepper IMO has the better arm.

The point is running QB's are becoming obsolete and we see that with the top draft choices made by NFL teams ie San Fran, GB, etc.

Running QB's are deemed projects when projected into NFL type play. Pocket Passers are at premium...look at the past drafts in total, and look at upcoming drafts.

Offense has changed again in the NFL. Defenses can stop or at least contain a running QB...see Vick and Falcons win loss record, see Philly, see Vikings, see any team with running QB. None will be in the playoffs.
 
houtz said:
I can't believe Mcnabb is in the same sentence as Vick. Mcnabb has proven he can pass the ball from the pocket. I live in PA and I watch just about every Eagles game because my dad's a fan of them. Mcnabb is a lot better then Vick in every aspect except running the football. Mcnabb has shown that he can stand back when he gets preassured he pulls some miracle and gets free and then throws it 60 yards for the completion. This year his entire team has been injured for the most part and before he got hurt he was still one of the best QBs in the NFL.

And TO made Mcnabb a good quarterback? I do believe Mcnabb lead his team to three straight championship games without TO there. TO has nothing to do with how good Mcnabb is. You can't even mention the top quarterbacks in the NFL without Mcnabb being there. I'll give it to you that without TO the big play wasn't there but Mcnabb has been among the elite in the NFL for years now. Wow how you say his name in the same breathe as Vick is beyond me.

No doubt, I'd only take Manning and possibly Brady before him.
 
Drew Brees over McNab
Jake Plummer over Vick

In order:

P Manning
Brady
C Palmer
Rothlesberger
Drew Brees
Jake Plummer
Culpepper
Favre
Vick
McNabb
 
phinfreak said:
You are just plain wrong. McNab REAGGRAVATED A HIATAL HERNIA trying to tackle a defender...which by the way, intercepted his pass in a 3 INT game for the eagles.

Leftwich is not a running QB, but he definitely relies on his size and mobility vs throwing the ball away. But for arguments sake, we'll leave him out.

Vick is way overrated as is McNab. Culpepper IMO has the better arm.

The point is running QB's are becoming obsolete and we see that with the top draft choices made by NFL teams ie San Fran, GB, etc.

Running QB's are deemed projects when projected into NFL type play. Pocket Passers are at premium...look at the past drafts in total, and look at upcoming drafts.

Offense has changed again in the NFL. Defenses can stop or at least contain a running QB...see Vick and Falcons win loss record, see Philly, see Vikings, see any team with running QB. None will be in the playoffs.

Then you might as well add every quarterback in the league as a running quarterback because even the statue of Bledsoe relies on his size and his mobility vs throwing the ball away.

Vick is overrated as a quarterback. He is very rated as an athlete. He is one of the most amazing athletes in the NFL.

I find it hard to call McNabb over rated due to the simple fact that with him the Eagles go to 4 division titles in a row. McNabb gets hurt and there you go, they are gone.

My other question, why not mention Plummer? He is as a running quarterback as McNabb and about 10 times the amount of a Leftwich.

Why don't you add Rothlesburger who has more runs than Leftwich, or Brunell who is a running quarterback?

Matt Hassleback is a good sized guy who runs when he has to.

Basically there is only one running quarterback in the NFL and that is Vick. The rest are pocket passers to pocket passers who can run when they have to. You don't see Kordell Stewarts anymore.
 
phinfreak said:
Drew Brees over McNab
Jake Plummer over Vick

In order:

P Manning
Brady
C Palmer
Rothlesberger
Drew Brees
Jake Plummer
Culpepper
Favre
Vick
McNabb

The fact you ahve Farve over McNabb shows that you know little of today's NFL.

Or the fact you have Jake "Can't do anything because the coach will not let him and when he does do something he throws an interception" Plummer
 
You give Vick and McNabb more guys to throw to their teams are unstoppable.

....and I would say Plummer is a runner.

I think having QB that can move as well as throw from the pocket heck how do you stop a guy like that??
 
Plummer, Brunnel, for the same reasons, have not won a SB, but they are not running QB's, they are mobile QB's. Early in their careers they may have resorted to running when no one was open but they have "matured" and been "coached' to throw the ball away.

Brunnel used to run aka Steve Young but look what happened to him, traded, and a history of injuries, if you want to find him today, look in the pocket.

Plummer ran, but does not run any longer ...see coaching notes. He is having his best year under Shanahan, and is THROWING the ball with league leading TD/INT ratio.

McNab did not move his team this year before he got hurt, and the Eagles were arguably stuck at the Division playoffs because the quality of defenses negated his running and scrambling. He could not move the ball effectively throught the air...see playoff results.

Vick, well, the Falcons will continue to struggle until they decide what Vick is and let him play to his style. I believe they would have the same if not a better W/L record with Schaub...who is a pocket passer.
 
Ya know I was positive I would catch much scrutiny but after watcing the Bears vs Falcons game on Sunday night i was going to start a thread about how I thought Vick would NEVER produce an SB in Atlanta. He looked lost and was just throwing the ball up fro grabs in most cases. I just feel he will win a lot of regular season games (Hey, so did Jay Fiedler) and be able to scrape by the teams with crappy defenses in the playoffs. However, when he faces a defense that is really good like Chicago's or the ,SB winners for the last 5 years, he folds. I don't know if anyone agrees with me but i'd really like to stand clear of QB's that are in that mold. McNabb and McNair are much different players than Vick.
 
phinfreak said:
You are just plain wrong. McNab REAGGRAVATED A HIATAL HERNIA trying to tackle a defender...which by the way, intercepted his pass in a 3 INT game for the eagles.

Leftwich is not a running QB, but he definitely relies on his size and mobility vs throwing the ball away. But for arguments sake, we'll leave him out.

Vick is way overrated as is McNab. Culpepper IMO has the better arm.

The point is running QB's are becoming obsolete and we see that with the top draft choices made by NFL teams ie San Fran, GB, etc.

Running QB's are deemed projects when projected into NFL type play. Pocket Passers are at premium...look at the past drafts in total, and look at upcoming drafts.

Offense has changed again in the NFL. Defenses can stop or at least contain a running QB...see Vick and Falcons win loss record, see Philly, see Vikings, see any team with running QB. None will be in the playoffs.

Thats real lame, the Eagles made 4 straight championship games with McNabb and the one year he is on IR you claim running QBs, like McNabb, are no good because the Eagles didn't make the playoffs? LOL. What a joke.

Did we make the playoffs with Gus? So we see that you can miss out on the playoffs with or without a pocket passer.

Its funny all this comes when the 'running QBs' are having a down year, due to injury. Where was this talk last season when vick, culpepper, and McNabb lead their teams to the playoffs?

Btw, you do realize these past two seasons big ben has thrown less passes (527 pass attempts) and yet has run more times (84 rushes) than McNabb has (826 pass attempts and 66 rushes), right?
 
Dupree...look up Plummers passer rating eh? look up his TD/INT ratio eh? look up the Broncos W/L record eh?

Regarding Favre...how many SB has he won? How many has Vick or McNab won?

Nuff said...little boy.
 
phinfreak said:
McNab did not move his team this year before he got hurt, and the Eagles were arguably stuck at the Division playoffs because the quality of defenses negated his running and scrambling. He could not move the ball effectively throught the air...see playoff results.

.

You can make that same arguement for Manning.
 
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