Ryan Tannehill's Divergence from Chad Henne? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ryan Tannehill's Divergence from Chad Henne?

Honest question: isn't YPA a function of what the coaches ask you to do, scheme, playcalling, etc.?

For example, if one quarterback plays for an offense that has a poor running game and expects the quarterback to develop a short passing game to establish ball control, that quarterback would likely end up with a low ypa. On the other hand, a quarterback with a strong running game that is able to control the ball that way, and then unleashes a smaller volume of passes far downfield in an Al Davis style would have a high ypa. Both quarterbacks would be products of their offensive systems. Ypa would also be affected by YAC and hence receivers' ability to break tackles, juke defenders and get yardage downfield.

So, ypa would be a statistic that measures the style of offense, and the entire offense's production.

You see skewed results like Steve Young having an outlier YPA because he played in a great offense with Jerry Rice and John Taylor and other weapons like Ricky Watters, Tom Rathman, and Brent Jones.

I'm not saying ypa is total garbage, just that it's only one metric out of many to look at. Young was a great quarterback through many measures, ypa being only one such metric.
 
Austin Tatious said:
Honest question: isn't YPA a function of what the coaches ask you to do, scheme, playcalling, etc.?

For example, if one quarterback plays for an offense that has a poor running game and expects the quarterback to develop a short passing game to establish ball control, that quarterback would likely end up with a low ypa. On the other hand, a quarterback with a strong running game that is able to control the ball that way, and then unleashes a smaller volume of passes far downfield in an Al Davis style would have a high ypa. Both quarterbacks would be products of their offensive systems. Ypa would also be affected by YAC and hence receivers' ability to break tackles, juke defenders and get yardage downfield.

So, ypa would be a statistic that measures the style of offense, and the entire offense's production.

You see skewed results like Steve Young having an outlier YPA because he played in a great offense with Jerry Rice and John Taylor and other weapons like Ricky Watters, Tom Rathman, and Brent Jones.

I'm not saying ypa is total garbage, just that it's only one metric out of many to look at. Young was a great quarterback through many measures, ypa being only one such metric.
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Your wasting your time, I`ve been trying to get this through his head for the past 2 weeks... Its not going to happen...
 
NBP81 said:
Your wasting your time, I`ve been trying to get this through his head for the past 2 weeks... Its not going to happen...
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No dammit! YPA is exclusively a measure of the QB play (until Tannehill's YPA is "significantly" above average) then he'll think of something else.....
 
please don't leave out tannehills red zone numbers compared to chad henne's...cause while this comparison was an obvious joke week 4 to the "eye test" folks i would like to have it laughed out of the room when those red zone numbers are posted...

this place makes my head hurt...
 
Austin Tatious said:
Honest question: isn't YPA a function of what the coaches ask you to do, scheme, playcalling, etc.?

For example, if one quarterback plays for an offense that has a poor running game and expects the quarterback to develop a short passing game to establish ball control, that quarterback would likely end up with a low ypa. On the other hand, a quarterback with a strong running game that is able to control the ball that way, and then unleashes a smaller volume of passes far downfield in an Al Davis style would have a high ypa. Both quarterbacks would be products of their offensive systems. Ypa would also be affected by YAC and hence receivers' ability to break tackles, juke defenders and get yardage downfield.

So, ypa would be a statistic that measures the style of offense, and the entire offense's production.

You see skewed results like Steve Young having an outlier YPA because he played in a great offense with Jerry Rice and John Taylor and other weapons like Ricky Watters, Tom Rathman, and Brent Jones.

I'm not saying ypa is total garbage, just that it's only one metric out of many to look at. Young was a great quarterback through many measures, ypa being only one such metric.
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This is all I'm going to say about this topic in this thread:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

Whether you believe YPA is primarily a measure of a QB's individual ability will be a function of whether you perceive a correlation between the quality of the quarterbacks on that page and their YPA, the inevitable exceptions to the rule notwithstanding (i.e., no correlation involves a perfect correspondence between two variables).

Whether you see that correlation is based on your own perceptions, and is your own opinion, and of course opinions tend to vary, and everyone is entitled to one. :up:

There is really nothing further to say, and I will be saying nothing further. :)
 
shouright said:
This is all I'm going to say about this topic in this thread:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

Whether you believe YPA is primarily a measure of a QB's individual ability will be a function of whether you perceive a correlation between the quality of the quarterbacks on that page and their YPA, the inevitable exceptions to the rule notwithstanding (i.e., no correlation involves a perfect correspondence between two variables).

Whether you see that correlation is based on your own perceptions, and is your own opinion, and of course opinions tend to vary, and everyone is entitled to one. :up:

There is really nothing further to say, and I will be saying nothing further. :)
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Do you need any special training to be able to "perceive correlation"? and Does that training hurt?
 
shouright said:
Earlier this season, I started the following thread:

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...e-vs-Ryan-Tannehill-A-Scary-Thought&highlight=

As you can imagine, it was quite popular. ;)

Here's an update:

ATT
COMP
YARDS
COMP %
YPA
TDs
INTs
QBR
Chad Henne 2009
451
274
2878
60.8
6.38
12
14
75.2
Ryan Tannehill 2012
484
282
3294
58.3
6.81
12
13
76.1
Chad Henne 2010 (First 4 Games)
131
84
964
64.1
7.36
5
4
86.2
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (First 4 Games)
142
93
1076
65.5
7.58
5
5
85.3
Chad Henne 2010 (Games 5 through 13)
254
149
1712
58.7
6.74
8
11
71.5
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (Games 5 through 13)
342
207
2239
60.5
6.55
15
9
83.5
So, what do we think?
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I think Tannehill is going to be a very good talent, and the sky is the limit for him.

Unlike most other young QBs, he has had one huge speed bump (Losing Binns , then losing Keller, then losing Gibson...all of which were becoming huge weapons for Tannehill each time they went down), after another huge speed bump (O-line giving him consistently less time then most other QBs, and little running game), and then another speed bump (Bullygate takes away two of his starters from an already struggling O-line), and in all the turmoil that has been the 2013 season, all he has done is to show continued progress in his game, and grown more and more into a starting QB, and leader.

With the way the O-line is progressing, the running game is becoming more consistent, and how he is finally in sync with all his receivers, he is going to be tough to slow down from here on, and I am going to enjoy every minute of it.
 
shouright said:
This is all I'm going to say about this topic in this thread:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

Whether you believe YPA is primarily a measure of a QB's individual ability will be a function of whether you perceive a correlation between the quality of the quarterbacks on that page and their YPA, the inevitable exceptions to the rule notwithstanding (i.e., no correlation involves a perfect correspondence between two variables).

Whether you see that correlation is based on your own perceptions, and is your own opinion, and of course opinions tend to vary, and everyone is entitled to one. :up:

There is really nothing further to say, and I will be saying nothing further. :)
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LOL! Your straight up lying...
 
shouright said:
Watch. ;)
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honest question, why do you only follow Tannehill with your statistical analysis? I ask this because the analysis itself is interesting to a certain degree, it just gets old when its always the same stat with the same AVERAGE(as you make sure to include in every sentence with Tannehill in it) player... Why not breakdown other players? I mean at first its interesting, then it becomes annoying but now your just approaching troll level... There are 22 Dolphins starters on the Fins and some are way below average, why not do a statistical analysis on them and compare them with ex crappy players? I mean WHY?
 
Austin Tatious said:
Honest question: isn't YPA a function of what the coaches ask you to do, scheme, playcalling, etc.?
Click to expand...

It's simply a measurement of how productive your passing offense is (from a yardage standpoint) every time your quarterback throws the football. It's a reflection of the QB, the pass protection, the receivers, and the scheme. It's a good metric because it really concisely demonstrates whether or not your quarterback is moving the ball downfield when he throws a pass.

But it doesn't tell you whether or not the QB is good or bad at reading the defense. It doesn't tell you whether or not the QB makes fast decisions and releases the ball quickly. It doesn't tell you if the QB is being asked to throw a lot of short passes by design to compensate for a sputtering running game. It doesn't tell you if the QB is being asked to throw the ball to a receiver behind the LoS 2-4 times per game when that receiver gets tackled for a loss every damn time (hi, Coach Sherman!). It doesn't even tell you if your quarterback is making terrible decisions since an interception is the same as an incompletion if you're just looking at that one stat.

Here's an example: Geno Smith had a higher YPA than Ryan Tannehill at one point this season. Geno Smith was holding on to the ball FOREVER and throwing a crazy amount of interceptions. The Jets offense was terrible. Did Geno Smith having a 0.2 higher YPA than Ryan Tannehill mean he was playing better?

Given that we've already proven that shouright is a straight up fraud in a number of other threads, it's really not worth arguing over.
 
NBP81 said:
honest question, why do you only follow Tannehill with your statistical analysis? I ask this because the analysis itself is interesting to a certain degree, it just gets old when its always the same stat with the same AVERAGE(as you make sure to include in every sentence with Tannehill in it) player... Why not breakdown other players? I mean at first its interesting, then it becomes annoying but now your just approaching troll level... There are 22 Dolphins starters on the Fins and some are way below average, why not do a statistical analysis on them and compare them with ex crappy players? I mean WHY?
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Because I'm an idiot. ;)
 
Guys, I think I found a picture of Shouright working on his latest Tannehill YPA stat chart ...

supercomputernerd-1.jpeg


:chuckle:
 
My apologies to Monty Python:

- Tanneh@ters: an average QB! an average QB! an average QB! We found an average QB! We've got an average QB! an average QB! an average QB! We have found an average QB. May we cut him?
- Shouright: How do you know he is a average QB
- Tanneh@ters: He looks like one.
- Shouright: Bring him forward.
- Tannehill: I'm not an average QB! I'm not an average QB !
- Tanneh@ters: But you do look like one.
- Tannehill: They make posts about only my bad plays.
- Tanneh@ters: No, we don't.
- Tannehill: And this isn't my highlight real. It's a false one.
- Shouright: Well?
- Tanneh@ters: We did do the youtube video and the dozens of posts.
- Shouright: The youtube video?
- Tanneh@ters: And the and the dozens of posts. But he is an average QB !
- Shouright: Did you make posts like this?
- Tanneh@ters: No, no!
- Tanneh@ters: Yes. A bit.
- Tanneh@ters: He did throw an interception.
- Shouright: What makes you think he's an average QB?
- Tanneh@ters: He turned into Henne!
- Shouright: Henne?
- Tanneh@ters: He got better.
- Tanneh@ters: Cut him anyway!
- Shouright: Quiet! Quiet!
- Shouright: There are ways of telling whether he is an average QB.
- Tanneh@ters: Are there? What are they? Tell us. - Do they hurt?
- Shouright: Tell me, what do you do with average QBs?
- Tanneh@ters: Cut them!
- Shouright: And what do you cut, apart from average QBs?
- Tanneh@ters: More average QBs!
- Shouright: So why are average QBs cut?
- Tanneh@ters: 'Cause they are average?
- Shouright: Good!
- Shouright: How do we tell if he is average?
- Tanneh@ters: Look on the posts on the Internet!
- Shouright: But can you not find posts of different opinions?
- Tanneh@ters: Oh, yeah.
- Shouright: Is football a team game?
- Tanneh@ters: No, it's solo. - Throw him onto the field!
- Shouright: What is also a solo game?
- Tanneh@ters: solitaire. - Madden.
- Tanneh@ters: tennis. chess.
- Tanneh@ters: tango dancing.
- From the crowd: statistics!
- shouright: Exactly.
- shouright: So, logically--
- Tanneh@ters: If he has an average stat...
- Tanneh@ters: He is playing solo.
- shouright: And therefore?
- Tanneh@ters: an average QB!
- Tanneh@ters: A stat! A stat! - Here's a stat.
- shouright: We shall use my largest spreadsheet.
- Tanneh@ters: Cut the average QB !
- shouright: Run the correlation!
- Tanneh@ters: an average QB!
- Tannehill: It's a fair cop.
- Shouright: Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of statistics?
- I am Awsi Dooger, king of the Doogers.
 
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