Ryan Tannehill's Divergence from Chad Henne? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ryan Tannehill's Divergence from Chad Henne?

I still can't stop laughing at the posters who persist in singling out Colin Kaepernick. That's just begging to make a fool out of yourself. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because the fan and media theme of the past 6 weeks or so has been anti-Kaepernick. Jim Harbaugh knew what he was doing. You win with big plays down the field. That ability surfaces in the most significant games. Kaepernick has always demonstrated that trait. He averaged between 7.3 and 8.8 YPA in all four seasons he started at Nevada. He pulled out the Boise State game with big plays throughout the second half, helped by our own Rishard Matthews. Alex Smith and his lifetime 6.5 YPA is just enough to get you beat, the modern day Steve DeBerg, another guy who averaged below 7 for his career.

The subjective types make an honest effort but since they are invariably clutching the 40 or 45% variables as opposed to the 55 or 60% variables, it's a steady downward grind.

No kidding it's partially a team stat. In the ideal setting a quarterback can artificially boost his numbers. I remember when Harbaugh himself had one bizarre season with the Colts, far beyond his norm. Likewise with DeBerg late in his career, when he was with the Chiefs and Christian Okoye was in his prime. That running game combined with DeBerg's clever play action boosted his YPA numbers for a couple of years.

I appreciate that type of thing for regular season wagers. You can take a smart basic quarterback and dominate reeling foes, like the Chiefs over the Redskins last week. But down the road you can't allow yourself to be fooled. In the playoffs raw ability is at the forefront and the overmatched quarterbacks are throttled while the talented guys tend to reach new heights. Kaepernick averaged nearly 10 YPA in the playoffs last season for three full games. Yet we've got geniuses here who want to denounce if not mock him based on a handful of games in October and November. Sheer brilliance. Gee, I wonder how many games Harbaugh would have won at Stanford and with the 49ers if he had similar level of analysis?

Anyway, Tannehill underachieved in midseason, partially due to our low number of rushes. That is a killer, the same type of thing that has plagued the Colts since Reggie Wayne's injury. As I've emphasized countless times, only the absolute premier quarterbacks can break all the rules and abuse shotgun and empty set looks with low number of rushes. Luck is not there yet, and Tannehill probably will never get there. We need to make sure Tannehill receives 25+ rushes per game with increased play action and fewer shot gun snaps. Geez, that's the same thing I posted in preseason.

YPA is a tool. Chad Henne lacks the tools to have a successful long term YPA, with his long delivery, lack of touch, and inability to rescue a play. There's no question we have a superior guy. Tannehill's upside is the questionmark. All you guys with the happy adjustments won't have to depend on them if he ever achieves 7.5+ YPA. Funny how that works.
 
shouright said:
Earlier this season, I started the following thread:

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...e-vs-Ryan-Tannehill-A-Scary-Thought&highlight=

As you can imagine, it was quite popular. ;)

Here's an update:

ATT
COMP
YARDS
COMP %
YPA
TDs
INTs
QBR
Chad Henne 2009
451
274
2878
60.8
6.38
12
14
75.2
Ryan Tannehill 2012
484
282
3294
58.3
6.81
12
13
76.1
Chad Henne 2010 (First 4 Games)
131
84
964
64.1
7.36
5
4
86.2
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (First 4 Games)
142
93
1076
65.5
7.58
5
5
85.3
Chad Henne 2010 (Games 5 through 13)
254
149
1712
58.7
6.74
8
11
71.5
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (Games 5 through 13)
342
207
2239
60.5
6.55
15
9
83.5
So, what do we think?
Click to expand...

dude do u ever post anything other than stats?
 
shouright said:
This is all I'm going to say about this topic in this thread:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

Whether you believe YPA is primarily a measure of a QB's individual ability will be a function of whether you perceive a correlation between the quality of the quarterbacks on that page and their YPA, the inevitable exceptions to the rule notwithstanding (i.e., no correlation involves a perfect correspondence between two variables).

Whether you see that correlation is based on your own perceptions, and is your own opinion, and of course opinions tend to vary, and everyone is entitled to one. :up:

There is really nothing further to say, and I will be saying nothing further. :)
Click to expand...


I will respond once again to this ridiculous link you provide with vague reference to it showing all the great Qbs every to play since the salary cap. with you defence of never perfect correspodence.


Example #1 Matt Schaub is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Drew Bress, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman

Example #2 Daunte Culpepper is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Drew Bress, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman, John Elway

Example #3 Trent Green is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Drew Bress, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman, John Elway, Peyton Manning

Example #4 Tony Romo is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Drew Bress, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman, John Elway, Peyton Manning,

Example #5 Jeff Geroge is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Drew Bress, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman, John Elway,

Example #6 Steve Beurlein is/was ranked which you state is better or equal too : Jim Kelly, Brett Favre, Tory Aikman

I could go on with this but when you start getting to the 60% level of a crap number for pointing out who is a great QB, it becomes a joke. You give YPA historically a better correlation to good QB then correlating YAC to having a higher YPA. JUst ridiculous.
 
shouright said:
Earlier this season, I started the following thread:

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...e-vs-Ryan-Tannehill-A-Scary-Thought&highlight=

As you can imagine, it was quite popular. ;)

Here's an update:

ATT
COMP
YARDS
COMP %
YPA
TDs
INTs
QBR
Chad Henne 2009
451
274
2878
60.8
6.38
12
14
75.2
Ryan Tannehill 2012
484
282
3294
58.3
6.81
12
13
76.1
Chad Henne 2010 (First 4 Games)
131
84
964
64.1
7.36
5
4
86.2
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (First 4 Games)
142
93
1076
65.5
7.58
5
5
85.3
Chad Henne 2010 (Games 5 through 13)
254
149
1712
58.7
6.74
8
11
71.5
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (Games 5 through 13)
342
207
2239
60.5
6.55
15
9
83.5
So, what do we think?
Click to expand...

I think you need a vacation
 
NBP81 said:
WTF kind of response is that?
Click to expand...
Well, you asked me to tell you something about myself, so I made sure it was negative so we could just agree right away and avoid an argument. ;)
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I still can't stop laughing at the posters who persist in singling out Colin Kaepernick. That's just begging to make a fool out of yourself. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because the fan and media theme of the past 6 weeks or so has been anti-Kaepernick. Jim Harbaugh knew what he was doing. You win with big plays down the field. That ability surfaces in the most significant games. Kaepernick has always demonstrated that trait. He averaged between 7.3 and 8.8 YPA in all four seasons he started at Nevada. He pulled out the Boise State game with big plays throughout the second half, helped by our own Rishard Matthews. Alex Smith and his lifetime 6.5 YPA is just enough to get you beat, the modern day Steve DeBerg, another guy who averaged below 7 for his career.

The subjective types make an honest effort but since they are invariably clutching the 40 or 45% variables as opposed to the 55 or 60% variables, it's a steady downward grind.

No kidding it's partially a team stat. In the ideal setting a quarterback can artificially boost his numbers. I remember when Harbaugh himself had one bizarre season with the Colts, far beyond his norm. Likewise with DeBerg late in his career, when he was with the Chiefs and Christian Okoye was in his prime. That running game combined with DeBerg's clever play action boosted his YPA numbers for a couple of years.

I appreciate that type of thing for regular season wagers. You can take a smart basic quarterback and dominate reeling foes, like the Chiefs over the Redskins last week. But down the road you can't allow yourself to be fooled. In the playoffs raw ability is at the forefront and the overmatched quarterbacks are throttled while the talented guys tend to reach new heights. Kaepernick averaged nearly 10 YPA in the playoffs last season for three full games. Yet we've got geniuses here who want to denounce if not mock him based on a handful of games in October and November. Sheer brilliance. Gee, I wonder how many games Harbaugh would have won at Stanford and with the 49ers if he had similar level of analysis?

Anyway, Tannehill underachieved in midseason, partially due to our low number of rushes. That is a killer, the same type of thing that has plagued the Colts since Reggie Wayne's injury. As I've emphasized countless times, only the absolute premier quarterbacks can break all the rules and abuse shotgun and empty set looks with low number of rushes. Luck is not there yet, and Tannehill probably will never get there. We need to make sure Tannehill receives 25+ rushes per game with increased play action and fewer shot gun snaps. Geez, that's the same thing I posted in preseason.

YPA is a tool. Chad Henne lacks the tools to have a successful long term YPA, with his long delivery, lack of touch, and inability to rescue a play. There's no question we have a superior guy. Tannehill's upside is the questionmark. All you guys with the happy adjustments won't have to depend on them if he ever achieves 7.5+ YPA. Funny how that works.
Click to expand...

I think everyone who responds to these thread agrees with this statement and what his upside can be. Shou tends to lead with stats that he thinks show that Tannehill is only ever going to be a average QB. He has stated otherwise in other threads but when you continue to throw stats tryin to prove or show he's average, you tend to look like your trying to show he sucks. Most of us have hope that Tannehill will continue to improve because he shows traits like escape ability, great pre-snap reads, he's improved ball security, and has cut down on ints though this could be improved. Will he eventually hit a road block, of course, most of us including you and Shou hope he can continue to grow. Showing the same stats that don't show anything near a perfect correlation to being a great QB but a average correlation tends to bother some of us.
 
shouright said:
Earlier this season, I started the following thread:

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...e-vs-Ryan-Tannehill-A-Scary-Thought&highlight=

As you can imagine, it was quite popular. ;)

Here's an update:

ATT
COMP
YARDS
COMP %
YPA
TDs
INTs
QBR
Chad Henne 2009
451
274
2878
60.8
6.38
12
14
75.2
Ryan Tannehill 2012
484
282
3294
58.3
6.81
12
13
76.1
Chad Henne 2010 (First 4 Games)
131
84
964
64.1
7.36
5
4
86.2
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (First 4 Games)
142
93
1076
65.5
7.58
5
5
85.3
Chad Henne 2010 (Games 5 through 13)
254
149
1712
58.7
6.74
8
11
71.5
Ryan Tannehill 2013 (Games 5 through 13)
342
207
2239
60.5
6.55
15
9
83.5
So, what do we think?
Click to expand...
If you can't watch them play and see the difference then it's no surprise that you rely so heavily on stats to shape your thoughts.
 
MadDog 88 said:
If you can't watch them play and see the difference then it's no surprise that you rely so heavily on stats to shape your thoughts.
Click to expand...
If I rely only on what I'm seeing, how would I know I'm not succumbing to confirmation bias and thereby making an inaccurate appraisal?
 
shouright said:
Well, you asked me to tell you something about myself, so I made sure it was negative so we could just agree right away and avoid an argument. ;)
Click to expand...
No I asked you about why you only did your research on Tannehill all the time and not other Dolphins players...
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I still can't stop laughing at the posters who persist in singling out Colin Kaepernick. That's just begging to make a fool out of yourself. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because the fan and media theme of the past 6 weeks or so has been anti-Kaepernick. Jim Harbaugh knew what he was doing. You win with big plays down the field. That ability surfaces in the most significant games. Kaepernick has always demonstrated that trait. He averaged between 7.3 and 8.8 YPA in all four seasons he started at Nevada. He pulled out the Boise State game with big plays throughout the second half, helped by our own Rishard Matthews. Alex Smith and his lifetime 6.5 YPA is just enough to get you beat, the modern day Steve DeBerg, another guy who averaged below 7 for his career.

The subjective types make an honest effort but since they are invariably clutching the 40 or 45% variables as opposed to the 55 or 60% variables, it's a steady downward grind.

No kidding it's partially a team stat. In the ideal setting a quarterback can artificially boost his numbers. I remember when Harbaugh himself had one bizarre season with the Colts, far beyond his norm. Likewise with DeBerg late in his career, when he was with the Chiefs and Christian Okoye was in his prime. That running game combined with DeBerg's clever play action boosted his YPA numbers for a couple of years.

I appreciate that type of thing for regular season wagers. You can take a smart basic quarterback and dominate reeling foes, like the Chiefs over the Redskins last week. But down the road you can't allow yourself to be fooled. In the playoffs raw ability is at the forefront and the overmatched quarterbacks are throttled while the talented guys tend to reach new heights. Kaepernick averaged nearly 10 YPA in the playoffs last season for three full games. Yet we've got geniuses here who want to denounce if not mock him based on a handful of games in October and November. Sheer brilliance. Gee, I wonder how many games Harbaugh would have won at Stanford and with the 49ers if he had similar level of analysis?

Anyway, Tannehill underachieved in midseason, partially due to our low number of rushes. That is a killer, the same type of thing that has plagued the Colts since Reggie Wayne's injury. As I've emphasized countless times, only the absolute premier quarterbacks can break all the rules and abuse shotgun and empty set looks with low number of rushes. Luck is not there yet, and Tannehill probably will never get there. We need to make sure Tannehill receives 25+ rushes per game with increased play action and fewer shot gun snaps. Geez, that's the same thing I posted in preseason.

YPA is a tool. Chad Henne lacks the tools to have a successful long term YPA, with his long delivery, lack of touch, and inability to rescue a play. There's no question we have a superior guy. Tannehill's upside is the questionmark. All you guys with the happy adjustments won't have to depend on them if he ever achieves 7.5+ YPA. Funny how that works.
Click to expand...
So you don't attribute any of that to the read option? Really? Read option QBs were balling last year when it came out in full force... This year not so much. So you think its a coincidence that both RG3 and Kap are starting to have trouble? just Like the wildcat the league caught up...
 
What do I think....I think we have a poster who's desperate for attention and seeks that attention by creating "trollesque" thread about the team's QB knowing he will get the responses he so desires.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I still can't stop laughing at the posters who persist in singling out Colin Kaepernick. That's just begging to make a fool out of yourself. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because the fan and media theme of the past 6 weeks or so has been anti-Kaepernick. Jim Harbaugh knew what he was doing. You win with big plays down the field. That ability surfaces in the most significant games. Kaepernick has always demonstrated that trait. He averaged between 7.3 and 8.8 YPA in all four seasons he started at Nevada. He pulled out the Boise State game with big plays throughout the second half, helped by our own Rishard Matthews. Alex Smith and his lifetime 6.5 YPA is just enough to get you beat, the modern day Steve DeBerg, another guy who averaged below 7 for his career.

The subjective types make an honest effort but since they are invariably clutching the 40 or 45% variables as opposed to the 55 or 60% variables, it's a steady downward grind.

No kidding it's partially a team stat. In the ideal setting a quarterback can artificially boost his numbers. I remember when Harbaugh himself had one bizarre season with the Colts, far beyond his norm. Likewise with DeBerg late in his career, when he was with the Chiefs and Christian Okoye was in his prime. That running game combined with DeBerg's clever play action boosted his YPA numbers for a couple of years.

I appreciate that type of thing for regular season wagers. You can take a smart basic quarterback and dominate reeling foes, like the Chiefs over the Redskins last week. But down the road you can't allow yourself to be fooled. In the playoffs raw ability is at the forefront and the overmatched quarterbacks are throttled while the talented guys tend to reach new heights. Kaepernick averaged nearly 10 YPA in the playoffs last season for three full games. Yet we've got geniuses here who want to denounce if not mock him based on a handful of games in October and November. Sheer brilliance. Gee, I wonder how many games Harbaugh would have won at Stanford and with the 49ers if he had similar level of analysis?

Anyway, Tannehill underachieved in midseason, partially due to our low number of rushes. That is a killer, the same type of thing that has plagued the Colts since Reggie Wayne's injury. As I've emphasized countless times, only the absolute premier quarterbacks can break all the rules and abuse shotgun and empty set looks with low number of rushes. Luck is not there yet, and Tannehill probably will never get there. We need to make sure Tannehill receives 25+ rushes per game with increased play action and fewer shot gun snaps. Geez, that's the same thing I posted in preseason.

YPA is a tool. Chad Henne lacks the tools to have a successful long term YPA, with his long delivery, lack of touch, and inability to rescue a play. There's no question we have a superior guy. Tannehill's upside is the questionmark. All you guys with the happy adjustments won't have to depend on them if he ever achieves 7.5+ YPA. Funny how that works.
Click to expand...


I can't remember who raised the Lombardy Trophy last season. Was it Flacco or Kaepernick? Because, I think the league may have screwed up and given to the guy with the lower YPA.
 
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