Saban Or Jimmy | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Saban Or Jimmy

yankeehillbilly said:
J.R. Tolver


JJ certainly had his draft failures, but remember.... Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Sam Madison, O. Gadsden, Brock Marion, & Pat Surtain were all brought in by Jimmy.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone disputes that he brought in a dominating D...but it was his inability to get a more productive offense and pushing Marino out the door while bringing Wanny in as his hand picked successor that was his downfall.
 
finmann said:
Saban reminds me so much of Jimmy johnson. They both came to the Phins as the next savior to take us to the SB, they are both disciplinarians, they love to stock pile draft picks, they are both defence minded coaches and they are great evaluators of talent. Who do guys think is the better coach for the phins right now? Jimmy (if he were to return)or Saban.
Click to expand...

I think you started to answer your own question. Dolphins fans now realize what cowboys fans already knew. Jimmy was a great evaluator of talent and in the draft, but his coaching was only mediocre. His strength was definitely personnel. Saban fits the mold of being able to do both talent evaluation and coaching. Lets hope so anyway.
 
yankeehillbilly said:
J.R. Tolver


JJ certainly had his draft failures, but remember.... Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Sam Madison, O. Gadsden, Brock Marion, & Pat Surtain were all brought in by Jimmy.
Click to expand...



i'll give you that. but jimmy also killed marino's career. he took away dan's greatest asset -- his ability to audible. dan could read a defense like nobody else, and that was a major reason for all of his success. when he wasn't allowed to audible anymore, and forced to run a specific play, it really hurt him. that is what i remember most about jimmy johnson -- that he made marino's last years much, much tougher than they should have been!
 
HobitFin said:
Jimmy is possibly one of the most underated greatest coaches ever...

when he came to the dolphins he cut bait
the dolphins were a bunch of premadonas lets not forget.

Jimmy may not have gotten the phins back to the bowl...
but he took a team in trouble and never NEVER had a loosing season.

it was his work that got the dolphins those 10-6 and 11-5 seasons that Wanny enjoyed
Click to expand...


I agree with this, Jimmy took over a defense that was rank 17th in the league in 95 and got rid of a lot a dead weight. The Dolphins started 7-8 rookies at one time and still went on to a 8-8 record. The Dolphins were in salary cap hell before JJ took over and the cap was in great shape up until a few years ago. Jimmy had the balls and saying he quit is stupid. If you say that, then Don Shula quit also after 95. JJ got us a 1,000 yd rusher in 96 and Dave got rid of an old Dan Marino and got us a great back in Ricky Williams that nobody said boo too until this year. Lets face it, Dan had a great career and it was time to go. Coach Shula and Marino were the backbone for the franchise, but it was time for a change and JJ did a great job. Everybody rips Dave for the past two years and thats fine, but he also had the balls to make changes.
 
steveincolorado said:
I agree with this, Jimmy took over a defense that was rank 17th in the league in 95 and got rid of a lot a dead weight. The Dolphins started 7-8 rookies at one time and still went on to a 8-8 record. The Dolphins were in salary cap hell before JJ took over and the cap was in great shape up until a few years ago. Jimmy had the balls and saying he quit is stupid. If you say that, then Don Shula quit also after 95. JJ got us a 1,000 yd rusher in 96 and Dave got rid of an old Dan Marino and got us a great back in Ricky Williams that nobody said boo too until this year. Lets face it, Dan had a great career and it was time to go. Coach Shula and Marino were the backbone for the franchise, but it was time for a change and JJ did a great job. Everybody rips Dave for the past two years and thats fine, but he also had the balls to make changes.
Click to expand...

Dave had the ability to make changes? Are we talking about the same guy here? If that was the case, why was Fiedler the starter for 5 years. Thank God Wad ball is dead!
 
Didn't realise the board was so divided on Jimmy. Always thought he was one of the favourite coaches for the phins.
 
HobitFin said:
Jimmy is possibly one of the most underated greatest coaches ever...

when he came to the dolphins he cut bait
the dolphins were a bunch of premadonas lets not forget.

Jimmy may not have gotten the phins back to the bowl...
but he took a team in trouble and never NEVER had a loosing season.

it was his work that got the dolphins those 10-6 and 11-5 seasons that Wanny enjoyed
Click to expand...


So true. JJ brought us a Defense...he also worked w/ an aging ICON in Marino. Dan was starting to fade and JJ worked w/ what he had. I agree about the fact that JJ baled on us...but his heart was not in it anymore. JJ was a great coach and was brought in at a time when he was needed. The juries still out on Saban.

The one thing that JJ did to this team which was criminal...is he brought in Wanny. This, in itself, tainted the JJ years beyond measure....
 
finmann said:
Saban reminds me so much of Jimmy johnson. They both came to the Phins as the next savior to take us to the SB, they are both disciplinarians, they love to stock pile draft picks, they are both defence minded coaches and they are great evaluators of talent. Who do guys think is the better coach for the phins right now? Jimmy (if he were to return)or Saban.
Click to expand...

Saban.....no question. Saban has already shown me more as a GM of a team than Jimmy did in four years here(remember Jimmy wasn't in total control in Dallas).

Saban is a much better X's and O's coach, and Saban did a vastly superior job in assembling his staff here than JJ did.

As far as talent evaluation, in my eyes Jimmy's reputation took a major hit in Miami with his drafts here, he found a few defensive gems in four drafts but his offensive picks were....wel offensive.

No question, I'd take Saban over Jimmy any day.
 
BlueFin said:
Saban.....no question. Saban has already shown me more as a GM of a team than Jimmy did in four years here(remember Jimmy wasn't in total control in Dallas).

Saban is a much better X's and O's coach, and Saban did a vastly superior job in assembling his staff here than JJ did.

As far as talent evaluation, in my eyes Jimmy's reputation took a major hit in Miami with his drafts here, he found a few defensive gems in four drafts but his offensive picks were....wel offensive.

No question, I'd take Saban over Jimmy any day.
Click to expand...


On paper...right now, you are correct.

Lets wait and see what Nick brings after a 2-3 year evaluation. Jimmy won the big one....Nick has not.
 
finmann said:
i agree, the only thing I have against Jimmy is that he quit before the job was done.
Click to expand...

Yea, same here. I think he knew he couldn't back up his 3 year boast so he gracefully bowed out. I don't have a problem with that. I do wish he would have took the coaching job WITHOUT Marino. He would have done a great deal of moves differently I'm sure. Instead he had to build around a 1-2 years from retirement throwing more INTs for TDs then Feeley -QB and do it within 3 years. A very tough challenge.

I hate him for forcing Wanny on us, not him personally, but his value of friendship over commitment to the team and winning.
 
I hated Jimmy Johnson it was a great day when he left the phins. A shame he screwed us over by sticking us with Wanny as his replacement though
 
Compare the 92-95 Fins (Shula's last 4 yrs) with the 96-99 Fins (JJs 4 years). The 92-95 fins accomplished slightly more (2 division titles vs. 0 for JJ), had a better overall record (39-25 vs. 36-28), scored 2.9ppg more, allowed 0.6ppg more (simply better teams). JJ was a good talent evaluator (on defense) and an aggressive defensive coach. Horrid offensive talent evaluator and a very conservative offensive coach (Wanny-esque). JJ's 1000yd rusher was due to giving KAJ all the carries, despite averaging 3.5yds/carry (which is terrible). Shula's 94 team was a much better rushing team than anything in the JJ era.

JJ's offensive scheme was run the ball (which we never could do), then when you established the run (which we never did), run simple pass patterns that are open because LB/S's are playing the run (which lead to INTs, if the defense is not playing run). No scheming at all of offense, no audibles from Dan (!?), nothing. Simple, vanilla, easy to defend.

JJs defense was also overrated in Miami. Yeah, he got Zach/Taylor/Madison, but he gave up Cox/Coleman/Vincent (fairly even trade). Even in 99, Armstrong/Buckley/Bowens/Jackson (all Shula pickups) were significant contributors to the defense. The 62 (7-62) and 38 (3-38) points his defense gave up in the last playoff games of 98/99 make Shula's 22-37 loss at Buffalo in 95 look close. Plus, the allowed ppg were similar for these teams (19.6 vs. 20.2), with both defenses choking at a similar rate in the 4th quarter.

Plus, he basically scapegoated Marino for his own offensive personnel failures, which did not win him many supporters in Miami.
 
Let's hope Saban is nothing like Jimmy Johnson. JJ had such a huge ego that he couldn't see how lucky he was in Dallas. Johnson was a terrible game day coach. He refused to make adjustments, and insisted on trying to dictate to his opponents. That works when you have more talent than your opponents, like JJ had at UMiami and in Dallas. But, in the salary cap era of the NFL, you need to win with strategy and game-planning. And JJ never understood that. Johnson destroyed the offense by taking away Marino's ability to audible, and failed to surround him any sort of talent. He has the reputation of being a great evaluator of talent. But, does such a great eye for talent wind up wasting high (1st 4 rounds) draft picks on Dorian Brew, Kirk Pointer, LaCurtis Jones, Yatil Green (sorry, he was injury prone in college, so there's no excuse), Ronnie Ward, Brent Smith, Jerome Daniels, John Avery, Brad Jackson, Larry Shannon, and JJ Johnson?
 
finmann said:
Saban reminds me so much of Jimmy johnson. They both came to the Phins as the next savior to take us to the SB, they are both disciplinarians, they love to stock pile draft picks, they are both defence minded coaches and they are great evaluators of talent. Who do guys think is the better coach for the phins right now? Jimmy (if he were to return)or Saban.
Click to expand...

Jimmy was a very good GM but an overrated coach. He could win w/ superior talent but when the talent was pretty even, he couldn't get the job done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom