Saban Or Jimmy

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Jimmy is possibly one of the most underated greatest coaches ever...

when he came to the dolphins he cut bait
the dolphins were a bunch of premadonas lets not forget.

Jimmy may not have gotten the phins back to the bowl...
but he took a team in trouble and never NEVER had a loosing season.

it was his work that got the dolphins those 10-6 and 11-5 seasons that Wanny enjoyed

Jimmy is one of the most overrated coaches ever. He is a very good evaluator of talent, but as a coach, he sucks.

 

[#13]

Jimmy was the beginning of the "Dark Years" that we just now are coming out of...hopefully.

 

[MarinoEqualsGod]

Jimmy is one of the most overrated coaches ever. He is a very good evaluator of talent, but as a coach, he sucks.

Wow, that's quite a statement from a Wanny backer...

P.S. I agree with your post.

 

[steveincolorado]

Jimmy was a very good GM but an overrated coach. He could win w/ superior talent but when the talent was pretty even, he couldn't get the job done.

No coach can win without good players.

 

[unifiedtheory]

JJs defense was also overrated in Miami. Yeah, he got Zach/Taylor/Madison, but he gave up Cox/Coleman/Vincent (fairly even trade). Even in 99, Armstrong/Buckley/Bowens/Jackson (all Shula pickups) were significant contributors to the defense. The 62 (7-62) and 38 (3-38) points his defense gave up in the last playoff games of 98/99 make Shula's 22-37 loss at Buffalo in 95 look close. Plus, the allowed ppg were similar for these teams (19.6 vs. 20.2), with both defenses choking at a similar rate in the 4th quarter.

Plus, he basically scapegoated Marino for his own offensive personnel failures, which did not win him many supporters in Miami.

I LOVE revisionist history.

Jimmy gave up Cox, Coleman and Vincent. WHY did he do that? Don Shula left this team in cap hell. We were so over tha cap we could'nt keep ONE of those players let alone all three of them.

Jimmy wanted to keep Vincent but he could'nt...we had zero cap flexibilty. Letting Bryan Cox go was a good move. He was more trouble then he was worth anyway and Marco Coleman was always over rated.

You seem to have forgotten that 37-22 playoff loss to Buffalo in 1995. The Bills has 341 yards rushing in that game....yes I said 341. They were leading 27-0 midway through the 3rd quarter. We got our points in garbage time and if the Bills had thrown a pass in the 2nd half they could have put up 80 on us. That team QUIT before they even played that game. I still consider that the biggest a$$ kicking we ever got in a playoff game.

We had a lot more points scored on us in the Jax game but the Jags were a damn good team, who had the bye week and we had a short week coming off of an emotional win in Seabagville and a cross country flight.

 

[occamz_razr]

How can we even say whos a better coach when Nick hasnt even coached a game yet?

I also wouldnt qualify Saban as a disciplinarian or a defensive minded coach. hes not a tom coughlin. He is very meticulous and very intense though from what Ive seen of him in college. He also loves the passing game when he has the personel to make it work.

He's going to do what it takes to win. He's not in the mold of JJ. He's not about flash. He's in the mold of Parcell, who milded Belichek, and Saban is a spin-off of Belichek.

If you want to compare coaches, and who they groomed as future coaches, then start out with Bill Belichek vs. Jimmy Johnson. Both have SB rings. I'll take Belichek.

 

[Jt0323]

Saban w/o a doubt

 

[dolfanmark]

I LOVE revisionist history.

Jimmy gave up Cox, Coleman and Vincent. WHY did he do that? Don Shula left this team in cap hell. We were so over tha cap we could'nt keep ONE of those players let alone all three of them.

Actually, he could have kept one of those players. But, he elected to re-sign Keith Sims to a big contract. And a year later, he cut him, creating another salary cap problem.

He also chose to sign Fred Barnett for the same money that Irving Fryar got from Philly, saying that Barnett was faster and younger. Of course, he didn't consider that Fryar had a good chemistry with Marino, and that Barnett was extremely injury prone, and that despite his speed, Barnett could no longer cut, and thus couldn't get open.

 

[Mike13]

How can we even say whos a better coach when Nick hasnt even coached a game yet?

I also wouldnt qualify Saban as a disciplinarian or a defensive minded coach. hes not a tom coughlin. He is very meticulous and very intense though from what Ive seen of him in college. He also loves the passing game when he has the personel to make it work.
As a Gm id say hes proving himself very worthy. He shows hes in total control at all times.

I agree w/ you but Johnson didnt do a damn thing fro us and i believe that Saban will be a good head coach. He can evaluate talent and he makes smart decisions

 

[Puffboy(ricky)]

Shula would have done as well as Jimmy did over that span. Saban has been so, so much better in his first year than Jimmy did already. If you look hard, Jimmy did not come to miami with a good plan, did a horrible job drafting to a team concept he should have had and than was the primary reason for the first round busts he had. John avery was not any part of a concieved plan whatsoever. Jimmy quit because he started this team's downfall and he knew it. 62 to 7 in the playoffs. Who gets beat like that. A very bad team. A team with a playoff record but not a playoff caliber team. Never was with Jimmy or Dave. A ne wera under Saban may not bring a superbowl, but he's already headed in a better direction, because he has some direction.

 

[Puffboy(ricky)]

I LOVE revisionist history.

Jimmy gave up Cox, Coleman and Vincent. WHY did he do that? Don Shula left this team in cap hell. We were so over tha cap we could'nt keep ONE of those players let alone all three of them.

Jimmy wanted to keep Vincent but he could'nt...we had zero cap flexibilty. Letting Bryan Cox go was a good move. He was more trouble then he was worth anyway and Marco Coleman was always over rated.

You seem to have forgotten that 37-22 playoff loss to Buffalo in 1995. The Bills has 341 yards rushing in that game....yes I said 341. They were leading 27-0 midway through the 3rd quarter. We got our points in garbage time and if the Bills had thrown a pass in the 2nd half they could have put up 80 on us. That team QUIT before they even played that game. I still consider that the biggest a$$ kicking we ever got in a playoff game.

We had a lot more points scored on us in the Jax game but the Jags were a damn good team, who had the bye week and we had a short week coming off of an emotional win in Seabagville and a cross country flight.

Jag's were no a better team than the Bills, sorry that Jag's game was the worst blowout we've had. Rewatch those games.

 

[Puffboy(ricky)]

Jag's were no a better team than the Bills, sorry that Jag's game was the worst blowout we've had. Rewatch those games.

Hell we couldn't even get garbage points in Jax game even with fiedler qb'ing for then at the end

 

[Tommatt]

Jimmy Johnson, obviously. Jimmy is proven. Saban has one draft, which while speculative, honestly, we have no clue how it'll pan out. Brown could be a workout warrior who was 2nd on auburns deph chart. Who knows.

And about jimmy quiting before the job was done, I always respected his decision due to the issues surrounding it.

 

[Marino420TD]

I LOVE revisionist history.

Jimmy gave up Cox, Coleman and Vincent. WHY did he do that? Don Shula left this team in cap hell. We were so over tha cap we could'nt keep ONE of those players let alone all three of them.

Jimmy wanted to keep Vincent but he could'nt...we had zero cap flexibilty. Letting Bryan Cox go was a good move. He was more trouble then he was worth anyway and Marco Coleman was always over rated.

You seem to have forgotten that 37-22 playoff loss to Buffalo in 1995. The Bills has 341 yards rushing in that game....yes I said 341. They were leading 27-0 midway through the 3rd quarter. We got our points in garbage time and if the Bills had thrown a pass in the 2nd half they could have put up 80 on us. That team QUIT before they even played that game. I still consider that the biggest a$$ kicking we ever got in a playoff game.

We had a lot more points scored on us in the Jax game but the Jags were a damn good team, who had the bye week and we had a short week coming off of an emotional win in Seabagville and a cross country flight.

There is no REVISIONIST history here. JJ decided to re-build from scratch, rather than deal with trying to keep some of the old players. That's his style. Did some of this have to be done? Yes it did, because of the cap issue. Fine, but the point is that the defense he built was essentially only marginally better (at best) than the best of the 92-95 years. Again, swap out Coleman/Cox/Vincent for Taylor/Thomas/Madison. Bowens/Jackson/Buckley/Armstrong were Shula picks. Not that much different in players or results. Style was different. JJ blitzed a ton (also got burned a ton).

Plus the offense was that much worse. Check the numbers I posted (points/game, records, etc). Shula's 92-95 teams were slightly better. Period. JJ came in with hype and did not improve the team. We got slightly worse.

How is down 27-0 in the third quarter worse than 38-3? The 99 team quit as much as the 95 team did - both of those teams (esp defense) were weak-minded. Again, the difference was that the Shula teams had an offense to (partially) compensate.

JJ's defense was fine, but never came through at the end of the game. I can point to numerous games where they looked great, then crumbled at the end. Did he build a good defense? Yes. Was it great? No. Did he build a better team? No, he didn't.

 

[ZOD]

Plain and simple the "legend" of Jimmy Johnson consists of two championships.

About the Championship won at the University of Miami..... You have to ask yourself a question as it pertains to that championship. When did the school officials begin to give excessive financial aid and pell grants to athletes in the football program? The cheating was discovered in 1994. Did it actually begin with Dennis Erickson? I don't know about that. He wasn't a cheater before he got to the Miami Hurricanes. Was it a standard practice when he got there? It seems a little funny to me that this school regains it's national prominence in football and then a couple of years later "O' know we got caught."

I've got two words about the championship won at Dallas "Herschel Walker". What have these coaches won since?

Talent won these championships. Coaching didn't win squat. With Jimmy it's all about how you acquire the talent. Unfortunately for us, there was no Herschel Walker nor any excessive scholarship/payment to provide.