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Saban Places Blame On Offensive Line

DBoston80 said:
...Dont tell me..tell Saban...He's the one mad about the lack of production...as he should be..I'm not blamin Houck though I mean its hard to make dinner out of cracker's....
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Oh I didnt mean to direct this at you at all.. I meant in general we should trust Houck (like I know we all do).

I still think the weak link is Seth at C who just cannot get the push for runs up the middle. Any runs up the middle were stopped immediately because Seth got pancaked. Put Rex in there please. Our runs to the outside were just fine, Carey and McDougle seemed to do decent jobs... it was in between the C and Gs that we had the most trouble.

As far as Stockar struggling in pass protection, I wouldnt be so quick to replace him yet. He has been very good in the first two games.. IMO better then St. Clair could do. Just an off night I think.
 
Dolfan1000 said:
Just let Houck work his magic and relax guys.. I am starting to read this Saban character like a book. Did he say this to defend the RBs and QBs? Nope. He said it to light a fire under the OL's arse.

IMO the run-blocking has been the weak link, not necessarily pass protection.
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Our linemen aren't talented enough to run block successfully. You are talking about moving 300 pound linemen out of the way, guys who generally are better athletes than the offensive linemen they are fighting. That is especially true in our case. My argument all along was Houck wouldn't do us much good at this stage because the linemen aren't skilled enough athletically. I've watched line play at the snap for 30+ years and have seen zilch this preseason to change my mind. We haven't invested enough premium picks on the offensive line and the pretend high picks like Smith, McKinney and Whitley have been a farce for the most part.

Run blocking requires strength, explosiveness, agility, timing, positioning, dedication and teamwork. Among other things. Just look at it this way: the size of the field hasn't changed in 100 years yet the players up front are considerably bigger and faster. Running lanes have shrunk as a result. It's like trying to drive down the center city streets of an old European city that predates the automobile.

There are 300 pound linemen with skill and 300 pound blobs. We have too many of the latter.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Our linemen aren't talented enough to run block successfully. You are talking about moving 300 pound linemen out of the way, guys who generally are better athletes than the offensive linemen they are fighting. That is especially true in our case. My argument all along was Houck wouldn't do us much good at this stage because the linemen aren't skilled enough athletically. I've watched line play at the snap for 30+ years and have seen zilch this preseason to change my mind. We haven't invested enough premium picks on the offensive line and the pretend high picks like Smith, McKinney and Whitley have been a farce for the most part.

Run blocking requires strength, explosiveness, agility, timing, positioning, dedication and teamwork. Among other things. Just look at it this way: the size of the field hasn't changed in 100 years yet the players up front are considerably bigger and faster. Running lanes have shrunk as a result. It's like trying to drive down the center city streets of an old European city that predates the automobile.

There are 300 pound linemen with skill and 300 pound blobs. We have too many of the latter.
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Those three guys you mentioned were 3rd round picks. None have panned out, but they were still first day picks invested in the position nonetheless. Vernon Carey was a 1st rounder. Stockar McDougle, while not a Dolphin draft pick, was a 1st rounder. If our 4 picks had panned out, we would have a line built on first day draft picks. But the problem is Smith, McKinney and Whitley have done NOTHING and while Vernon is poised to breakout, he has not shown anything in a regular season game. Blame it on scouting, not on not investing premium picks.
 
Dolfan1000 said:
Oh I didnt mean to direct this at you at all.. I meant in general we should trust Houck (like I know we all do).

I still think the weak link is Seth at C who just cannot get the push for runs up the middle. Any runs up the middle were stopped immediately because Seth got pancaked. Put Rex in there please. Our runs to the outside were just fine, Carey and McDougle seemed to do decent jobs... it was in between the C and Gs that we had the most trouble.

As far as Stockar struggling in pass protection, I wouldnt be so quick to replace him yet. He has been very good in the first two games.. IMO better then St. Clair could do. Just an off night I think.
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agree there..if there is ONE thing that about 99% of us agree on..it is Mckinney is NOT the answer at Center..
 
DBoston80 said:
agree there..if there is ONE thing that about 99% of us agree on..it is Mckinney is NOT the answer at Center..
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And yet I wonder why after 3 games, he is still in there getting beat.. I wonder if Saban and Houck see something, or are giving him one last chance...? Or maybe Middleton is just not yet physically ready (conditioning-wise... after all, he signed very late) to step in at RG? And what about St. Clair- why not give him a look there?

Try some combos Nick- we have plenty of versatility as far as the RG position goes.. definitely enough to allow Rex to move to C.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Our linemen aren't talented enough to run block successfully. You are talking about moving 300 pound linemen out of the way, guys who generally are better athletes than the offensive linemen they are fighting. That is especially true in our case. My argument all along was Houck wouldn't do us much good at this stage because the linemen aren't skilled enough athletically. I've watched line play at the snap for 30+ years and have seen zilch this preseason to change my mind. We haven't invested enough premium picks on the offensive line and the pretend high picks like Smith, McKinney and Whitley have been a farce for the most part.

Run blocking requires strength, explosiveness, agility, timing, positioning, dedication and teamwork. Among other things. Just look at it this way: the size of the field hasn't changed in 100 years yet the players up front are considerably bigger and faster. Running lanes have shrunk as a result. It's like trying to drive down the center city streets of an old European city that predates the automobile.

There are 300 pound linemen with skill and 300 pound blobs. We have too many of the latter.
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I think thats the crux of the matter. To me the game is won on the defensive line and offensive line. Everything, including QB, is secondary. I dont think we have an answer for the center position but think we might be able to find a short term fix at RT. With Carey and Hadnot I believe we have two long term solutions. I'm hoping that James, Middleton, McDOUGLE and hopefully one other provide short term solutions
 
WILLIS21 said:
So much for"keeping things in house".
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You are so off it is scary. Making comments to the media, hoping they are published in the paper and read by the players, has nothing to do with the notion of keeping certain issues "in house". One involves motivating your players to prove something, and the other involves little stupid issues like Ricky losing his playbook (or handout or whatever you want to call it because according to Nick, we didnt even have a playbook for this game) and little scuffles at practice.

All coaches do this.. well, all good ones. The same way when Saban was talking about Vickerson and Wright, saying he had not seen the fire yet, he jokingly asked the room of reporters to print it in tomorrow's papers so hopefully the players would read it and step up.
 
Its so painfully obvious I dont why its taken so long to figure out.
 
Im not worried about the line. I think they will come around. They just need some time to get adjusted to each other and for Houck to do his magic. Besides a good running back can make the line look better and give them more confidence. Last year the team just quit on wanny and the whole team wasn't motivated to play. This team wasn't bad at the end under Bates because everyone wanted to play for him. Saban will get them pumped.
 
The runs up the middle were not working last night, and yet Linehan kept calling them. I would have liked to have seen some more runs to the outside, some pitches to the outside etc.- maybe this would have built some offensive momentum and confidence, and that would take some pressure of the guards and Seth. And in my opinion, Ricky was always better when running towards his tackles anyway- when he turns the corner he is near impossible to stop.
 
Dolfan1000 said:
Those three guys you mentioned were 3rd round picks. None have panned out, but they were still first day picks invested in the position nonetheless. Vernon Carey was a 1st rounder. Stockar McDougle, while not a Dolphin draft pick, was a 1st rounder. If our 4 picks had panned out, we would have a line built on first day draft picks. But the problem is Smith, McKinney and Whitley have done NOTHING and while Vernon is poised to breakout, he has not shown anything in a regular season game. Blame it on scouting, not on not investing premium picks.
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I did blame it on scouting, or tried to, calling those three players a farce for the most part. My point was we tried to do it on the cheap, identifying linemen in the 3rd round and pretending that was adequate emphasis. It was not. Not when the offensive line was a glaring deficiency the entire time and almost every team has plenty of first round caliber players on the defensive front. Actually, come to think of it McKinney was a 2nd rounder and Smith cost a future 2nd along with the #3. So if you add it all up it looks like plenty of expenditure, but some of that was a donated 2nd for Smith and an extra 4th for Carey. You deserve to pay the penalty when you don't prioritize basic athletic ability. McKinney was not a second round athlete and Whitley may have had less athletic ability than any 3rd rounder in recent NFL history.
 
And yet Rex Hadnot, our 6th rounder, has impressed the hell out of the coaching staff, while these 2nd and 3rd round picks have done nothing of note.

Go figure.

The offensive line does not have to be built with first day picks- look at some of the best lines (as a group, not the individuals necessarily) and they are built on a good scheme and chemistry. Rex Hadnot vs. Seth Mckinney (6th rounder vs. 2nd rounder) is the perfect example. Based on where they were picked, Seth should be lightyears ahead of Rex, when in fact Rex is challenging for Seth's job.
 
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