Santa Clara police may stop working 49ers games over Kaepernick

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The only thing that will "incite" violence is continued police brutality, police shootings of unarmed African Americans, and the outright refusal by good cops to do anything about the bad. You're going to have to explain how Kaep exercising his 1st Amendment rights by not standing for the National Anthem and stating that changes have to be made to correct the systemic racism in law enforcement is more likely to "incite" violence than that. Your definition of "incite" in regards to Kaep wouldn't hold water in any court.

Your reading comprehension in regards to the KKK comments is worrisome.

Why are shootings of unarmed African Americans the only issue. Why not shootings of unarmed white or hispanic Americans? More unarmed whites are shot by police than unarmed African Americans.

I don't believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement. I believe there are racist actions by some individual officers. The facts simply don't support the premise of systemic racism.

Typically, activists and the media measure police actions against population ratios. Given that blacks are 13 percent of the nation’s population, a 26 to 28 percent black share of police gun fatalities looks disproportionate. But policing should be measured against crime rates, not population percentages, because law enforcement today is data-driven. Officers are deployed to where people are most being victimized, and that is primarily in minority neighborhoods.

In America’s 75 largest counties, comprising most of the nation’s population, blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants in 2009, 57 percent of all murder defendants, and 45 percent of all assault defendants — but roughly 15 percent of the population in those counties. In New York, where blacks make up 23 percent of the city’s population, blacks commit three-quarters of all shootings and 70 percent of all robberies, according to victims and witnesses. (Whites, by contrast, commit less than 2 percent of all shootings in New York City and 4 percent of all robberies, though they are nearly 34 percent of the population.)

New York City’s crime disparities are repeated in virtually all American metropolises. They will determine where officers are most often called to a drive-by shooting or an armed robbery, and where officers are most likely to face violent and resisting criminals — encounters which can lead to officers’ own use of deadly force.

Adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown of the U.S. population, he said black men are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones.

Several other recent studies complicate the favored media meme of white cops oppressing black subjects. A March 2015 study of the Philadelphia Police Department by the Justice Department found that black and Hispanic officers were more likely than white officers to shoot unarmed black individuals under the mistaken belief that those individuals were armed.

A study by the former acting director of the National Institute of Justice found that black officers in the New York Police Department were 3.3 times more likely than white officers to use their gun at shooting scenes. (Fryer also looked at differences in behavior between white and black officers and found that although white officers were not more likely to shoot unarmed blacks than unarmed whites, black officers were more likely to shoot unarmed whites than unarmed blacks, and more likely than white officers to shoot unarmed whites.)

Your infatuation with the KKK is more worrisome.

 

[Gonzo]

Why are shootings of unarmed African Americans the only issue. Why not shootings of unarmed white or hispanic Americans? More unarmed whites are shot by police than unarmed African Americans.

I don't believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement. I believe there are racist actions by some individual officers. The facts simply don't support the premise of systemic racism.







Your infatuation with the KKK is more worrisome.

And that's the thing, it doesn't matter what you believe. It's your right to state whether you feel there is systemic racism or not. By you saying there isn't, would you be "inciting" violence by someone who disagrees with you? Of course not. That's just as ludicrous as saying Kaep is. The police, as an arm of the government, cannot pick and choose who they will protect based on what they say. That's why they have to do their jobs and protect even those they disagree with, whether that be Kaep, the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, Donald Trump, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or even jets fans. To threaten to do otherwise is universally more dangerous than anything said by Kaep. It would also never stand if challenged, as the Santa Clara police chief is clearly aware of, as he came out against the boycott and urged police to protect public protest as they are sworn to do.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

And that's the thing, it doesn't matter what you believe. It's your right to state whether you feel there is systemic racism or not. By you saying there isn't, would you be "inciting" violence by someone who disagrees with you? Of course not. That's just as ludicrous as saying Kaep is. The police, as an arm of the government, cannot pick and choose who they will protect based on what they say. That's why they have to do their jobs and protect even those they disagree with, whether that be Kaep, the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, Donald Trump, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or even jets fans. To threaten to do otherwise is universally more dangerous than anything said by Kaep. It would also never stand if challenged, as the Santa Clara police chief is clearly aware of, as he came out against the boycott and urged police to protect public protest as they are sworn to do.

And we can just agree to disagree. I don't believe the police are under any legal requirement to police concerts or sporting events:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/18/tampa-police-officers-unwilling-to-work-sold-out-b/

The Tampa Police Department is having trouble getting officers to volunteer to provide security for Beyonce’s upcoming concert, following the pop singer’s controversial Super Bowl halftime performance of “Formation,” which many critics have argued is anti-police.

Typically, off-duty officers volunteer to work concerts and sporting events for the extra income, but none have signed up to work security for Beyonce’s April 29 concert at Raymond James Stadium, which is expected to sell out, a local Fox News affiliate reported.

Police spokesman Steve Hegarty couldn’t say whether the lack of signups signaled officers’ anger toward Beyonce, but explained that the department still has “plenty of time to fill those slots.”
“We’re going to staff it because we have a responsibility to do that regardless of how controversial it might be, who the artist might be, or the politician might be,” Mr. Hegarty explained. “This is a couple of months away, so we’ve still got plenty of time to fill those slots.”

Tampa Police did not clarify if officers could be forced to work the concert or if officers already on duty that night could be reassigned to cover it, Fox reported.

Just because the departments themselves feel a responsibility to police these events doesn't mean I have to agree with them. IMO, the organizers of these events have an obligation to respect the efforts of those that they want to count on for protection or run the risk of losing that protection. A concert or NFL game is not a constitutional right. It is not a public event. It is a private event. If you want the police to support your event, show some respect. If not, cancel the event or hire your own F'n protection.

I am more pissed off at the NFL than Kaep. Kaep is a idiot. The NFL fines players for wearing the wrong socks, they can sure as hell crack down on this nonsense. I also don't have an issue with not standing for the national anthem. It is what he said about the police murdering people and getting paid leave that crosses the line. He could have voiced support for the victims of police shootings. He could have voiced concerns over the situations that so many African Americans are brought up in. He could have said lots of things.

So, in summary, F Colin Kaepernick and Roger Goodell.

BTW, apparently it isn't just Kaep or the 49ers:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/12/cleveland-police-union-threatens-not-to-work-browns-games/

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Your definition of "incite" in regards to Kaep wouldn't hold water in any court.

Just admit you didn't know what the word meant. It's okay.

 

[Gonzo]

And we can just agree to disagree. I don't believe the police are under any legal requirement to police concerts or sporting events:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/18/tampa-police-officers-unwilling-to-work-sold-out-b/



Just because the departments themselves feel a responsibility to police these events doesn't mean I have to agree with them. IMO, the organizers of these events have an obligation to respect the efforts of those that they want to count on for protection or run the risk of losing that protection. A concert or NFL game is not a constitutional right. It is not a public event. It is a private event. If you want the police to support your event, show some respect. If not, cancel the event or hire your own F'n protection.

I am more pissed off at the NFL than Kaep. Kaep is a idiot. The NFL fines players for wearing the wrong socks, they can sure as hell crack down on this nonsense. I also don't have an issue with not standing for the national anthem. It is what he said about the police murdering people and getting paid leave that crosses the line. He could have voiced support for the victims of police shootings. He could have voiced concerns over the situations that so many African Americans are brought up in. He could have said lots of things.

So, in summary, F Colin Kaepernick and Roger Goodell.

BTW, apparently it isn't just Kaep or the 49ers:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ice-union-threatens-not-to-work-browns-games/

The police have a sworn duty to serve and protect. It's that simple. If the police don't feel that a massive sporting event poses a risk to citizens, fine. That's the ONLY acceptable reason for not having officers on hand, not because somebody said some meanie thing about them. There is no legal or otherwise obligation to show them respect. If they require and expect respect, they need to choose a different career path.

If he wore those socks to a game, he would be fined. He didn't.

Cops who chose not to work and protect civilians, because of their views, are derelict in their duties and ****ty cops. F them. They're part of the problem.

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

Just admit you didn't know what the word meant. It's okay.

You're just making yourself look silly now. Probably still struggling to understand the original KKK reference too

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The police have a sworn duty to serve and protect. It's that simple. If the police don't feel that a massive sporting event poses a risk to citizens, fine. That's the ONLY acceptable reason for not having officers on hand, not because somebody said some meanie thing about them. There is no legal or otherwise obligation to show them respect. If they require and expect respect, they need to choose a different career path.

If he wore those socks to a game, he would be fined. He didn't.

Cops who chose not to work and protect civilians, because of their views, are derelict in their duties and ****ty cops. F them. They're part of the problem.

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------



You're just making yourself look silly now. Probably still struggling to understand the original KKK reference too

Keep trivializing what Kaep said, it is very telling.

I'm sorry that your vocabulary is limited.

 

[Gonzo]

Keep trivializing what Kaep said, it is very telling.

I'm sorry that your vocabulary is limited.

I'm not trivialising what he said. He has brought up a serious issue.

Given the fact that you still can't grasp what was meant by the KKK statement, your little swipes at me are about as empty as the Santa Clara Police Union's honor and integrity. Try harder.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I'm not trivialising what he said.

Seriously?

somebody said some meanie thing about them

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Why are shootings of unarmed African Americans the only issue. Why not shootings of unarmed white or hispanic Americans? More unarmed whites are shot by police than unarmed African Americans.

I don't believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement. I believe there are racist actions by some individual officers. The facts simply don't support the premise of systemic racism.







Your infatuation with the KKK is more worrisome.

There are many statements that immediately let you know that a person is ignorant on the subject, and "more whites are killed by police" is right at the top. Per capita is the term you want - kind of similar to how YPA is a better indicator than passing yards.

 

[Gonzo]

Seriously?

And that terrible reading comprehension strikes again. That's clearly trivialising their (the police union's) ability to handle criticism, mocking the fact that they handle it about as well as 5 year olds. That's probably a meanie thing to say about 5 year olds though.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

There are many statements that immediately let you know that a person is ignorant on the subject, and "more whites are killed by police" is right at the top. Per capita is the term you want - kind of similar to how YPA is a better indicator than passing yards.

Measured in terms of the population committing violent crime (rather than the general population), African Americans are killed at a lower rate.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

And that terrible reading comprehension strikes again. That's clearly trivialising their (the police union's) ability to handle criticism, mocking the fact that they handle it about as well as 5 year olds. That's probably a meanie thing to say about 5 year olds though.

This is how I look at it. You can choose to agree or not. Makes no difference to me.

1. The tensions between the police and civilians are extremely high.

2. Lack of respect of police by citizens is at an all time high.

3. Lack of respect for life by some citizens is at an all time high.

4. The Dallas shootings (and others that have followed) may have been influenced by the reporting (and exaggeration) of police wrong doings and the irresponsible comments made by people in a position to influence the actions of others.

5. Colin Kaepernick added fuel to the fire and potentially put up to 70 police officers in a more hostile environment with 70,000 people.

IMO, you'd have to be an idiot to not see that Kaepernick's comments could 'incite' some nut job into driving into a group of police officers at the stadium or throw something from the stands at officers.

I'm not in favor of police brutality. I sure hope you are not in favor of the attacks on police.

I have no idea where your lack of respect of the police comes from and I don't really care. I don't share it.

Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what Mac Donald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.

Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences.

 

[Gonzo]

This is how I look at it. You can choose to agree or not. Makes no difference to me.

1. The tensions between the police and civilians are extremely high.

2. Lack of respect of police by citizens is at an all time high.

3. Lack of respect for life by some citizens is at an all time high.

4. The Dallas shootings (and others that have followed) may have been influenced by the reporting (and exaggeration) of police wrong doings and the irresponsible comments made by people in a position to influence the actions of others.

5. Colin Kaepernick added fuel to the fire and potentially put up to 70 police officers in a more hostile environment with 70,000 people.

IMO, you'd have to be an idiot to not see that Kaepernick's comments could 'incite' some nut job into driving into a group of police officers at the stadium or throw something from the stands at officers.

I'm not in favor of police brutality. I sure hope you are not in favor of the attacks on police.

I have no idea where your lack of respect of the police comes from and I don't really care. I don't share it.

1. Agreed.

2. Lack of respect for civilians, especially minorities, is at an all time high. It seems that you put them at a higher level than civilians. They are not. What you describe isn't "respect," given that you feel it is owed, it is deference. They (you?) are not our superiors. They are not exempt from criticism.

3. Lack of respect for life, especially minorities, by some police is at an all time high.

4. The Dallas shootings were triggered by mental illness, access to guns despite said mental illness, and by unarmed African Americans being murdered by police.

5. Bull****. That's nothing more than a very weak attempt to stifle criticism (free speech) by the enforcement branch of the government. Clearly wouldn't stand a chance in any court of law. Inciting violence is not protected by the 1st Amendment. If the Santa Clara Union feels that is what he is doing, they should send some of their members to arrest him. Obviously, that is ludicrous, and their Police Chief clearly agrees (golly, why are you showing him so much disrespect? How dare you disagree with him. Are you inciting violence by doing so? Don't worry, you don't have to get down on your knees and grovel at his feet, begging for forgiveness. He's not a superior class).

IMO, you'd have to be a/an (insert cowardly passive aggressive insult here) to think that he is inciting violence. That's an extremely weak argument against expressions of free speech, a form of argument that has been used in attempts to stifle free speech throughout this country's history and fails terribly every time. Again, they should arrest him if that's what he's doing, but they won't, because they're not (all) ****ing morons.

I respect good police. I despise bad police more than criminals.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

1. Agreed.

2. Lack of respect for civilians, especially minorities, is at an all time high. It seems that you put them at a higher level than civilians. They are not. What you describe isn't "respect," given that you feel it is owed, it is deference. They (you?) are not our superiors. They are not exempt from criticism.

3. Lack of respect for life, especially minorities, by some police is at an all time high.

4. The Dallas shootings were triggered by mental illness, access to guns despite said mental illness, and by unarmed African Americans being murdered by police.

5. Bull****. That's nothing more than a very weak attempt to stifle criticism (free speech) by the enforcement branch of the government. Clearly wouldn't stand a chance in any court of law. Inciting violence is not protected by the 1st Amendment. If the Santa Clara Union feels that is what he is doing, they should send some of their members to arrest him. Obviously, that is ludicrous, and their Police Chief clearly agrees (golly, why are you showing him so much disrespect? How dare you disagree with him. Are you inciting violence by doing so? Don't worry, you don't have to get down on your knees and grovel at his feet, begging for forgiveness. He's not a superior class).

IMO, you'd have to be a/an (insert cowardly passive aggressive insult here) to think that he is inciting violence. That's an extremely weak argument against expressions of free speech, a form of argument that has been used in attempts to stifle free speech throughout this country's history and fails terribly every time. Again, they should arrest him if that's what he's doing, but they won't, because they're not (all) ****ing morons.

I respect good police. I despise bad police more than criminals.

Again with the trivialization of what was said. Seems like an integral part of your argument. That says something about your argument.

I do put our nations law enforcement officers at a higher level than civilians, primarily because a break down in the respect for police officers is a break down in civilized society. By the same token, they should be (and usually are) held to a higher standard of behavior. You cannot have it one way and not the other. Ask yourself this question, if an individual, off duty police officer goes on television and paints all African Americans as murders and violent felons, and claims they aren't worthy of being citizens, are you okay with his "free speech". I sure wouldn't be.

And no, I am not a police officer. None of my family members are police officers. I don't have friends that are police officers. I am simply a citizen that respects the job they do and you should too.

I despise bad police too. The problem is that the left wing media, radical groups, and people with a political agenda are trying to be the ones determining which are good and which are bad. They don't seem to care about the truth (Hands up. Don't shoot), or due process (Baltimore), or the lives they ruin in the process.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I do put our nations law enforcement officers at a higher level than civilians, primarily because a break down in the respect for police officers is a break down in civilized society. By the same token, they should be (and usually are) held to a higher standard of behavior. You cannot have it one way and not the other.

I'll add one thing to this. On 9/11, it was police officers (and other first responders) that were running in the direction of the towers while civilians were running away. In Dallas this year, police officers ran in the direction of the shots while the BLM protesters ran in the opposite direction. So, again, yes, I do put law enforcement officers a a higher level because we ask more of them.