Schefter: Dolphins harassment stretches all the way up to management

[Patrick_Bateman]

Who cares if its deserved, amirite? Just mindlessly defend because it involves the Dolphins!

Agreed, I can't blindly support a crock of **** just because somebody on my "side" did it. It's as retarded as people that BLINDLY follow a political party, regardless of the fact that every party is COMPLETELY wrong from time to time. I was raised to admit when I was wrong, suck it up, and move on. I guess not everybody is capable of this, and will continue to get defensive no matter how ridiculously the odds are stacked against their argument

 

[butta247]

Other teams have absolutely no problem with setting up a locker room and building a brotherhood of men without crossing the line into abuse.

How do you know? It could have very well been handled the correct way by talking to the coach or team officials and not holding text messages and voicemails for 7 months only to have mommy and daddy expose the whole thing. Did you hear Hernandez told Welker he was going to kill him a couple years back? Did Welker cry to his mommy or alert Belicek? The reason they have the brotherhood of men in New England as you referred to it is things are handled internally and not through mommy and daddy. See what I mean?

 

[Spesh]

Your argument is weak. The NFL is different from any other profession in that the product is violence for entertainment purposes. When the opposing defensive lineman says something along the lines of what Cog said I would hope Martin would knock him in to next week. Does this concept make sense to you? This is not about civil liberties so please get down from that soap box. You can't compare working in corporate America with working in the NFL.

Violence for entertainment is unique to the NFL? :sidelol: Im sorry, have you watched any American television in the last...oh...ever?

I "get" teammates are suppose to treat each other differently then opposing team members. I hope even youd agree with that.

:sidelol: Theres no place in the NFL for civil liberties(screw the constitution, the founder fathers werent "real" men!) and the league isnt a corporation. Awesome. Best thing ive seen all weekend and i just beat the living crap out of TheWalrus in Fantasy Football. Thanks man, needed the laugh.

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you sound like one of those parents that thinks every kid deserves a trophy...

And you sound like someone who relies on other people to validate your self esteem.

Im good with your comparison if your good with mine.

 

[MD]

I agree that there are issues with the leadership within the Dolphins organization, but I can't believe you're willing to just handwave such a simplistic position on it.

Based on everything that's come out about the relationship between these two men, do you really think it is that simple? One day Incognito sends him that voicemail, and a few days later they are out go-karting together and laughign and having a good time, having their picture taken together and acting like everything's cool?

If anything is going to be learned from all of this, I think it's that Richie Incognito and Jon Martin are HUMAN BEINGS and that this situation is not as simple as one guy was mercilessly harassing another guy. Their relationship was obviously more complex than that and I think what we're seeing here is one of the many workplace meltdowns that happen all over America every day -- and the subsequent attempts to keep pay and benefits.

And yes, this stuff can happen even under good management. I don't know if Joe Philbin is a good leader or a bad one (I'm leaning toward bad), but it's just strange to me that you would so adamantly simplify the entire situation down to "Joe Philbin didn't know EVERYTHING that was happening? Terrible leader!" Because that's crap. It really is.

I know you've mentioned leadership in the marines, and all I can say is, that's got to be a little different. Not having been an officer in the Marine Corps, but having worked as a teacher when I was younger, and having served in a management position over adults as well, I can tell you that respecting privacy and boundaries can also be key elements of leadership and management. If Martin isn't going to open up and tell him these things, what is he supposed to do? Spy on their phone records?

And I can accept the argument that Martin didn't feel comfortable going to Joe, and that that's a strike on leadership. I'll buy that. But Martin apparently didn't feel comfortable going to ANYONE, including the union, and that to me indicates that maybe Martin is one of those guys who internalizes everything and can't go to anyone else for help. Those people are out there, and they are more common than you think. For a very long time, I was one of them.

How is not following through crap? A guy that is paid to protect the blindside of your multi million dollar investment goes AWOL and you're willing to accept whatever he tells you? Don't you follow up on his story just to make sure?

It's not difficult to talk to people that would be in a position to know if Martin is having issues because going AWOL clearly raises a red flag. Peers, QB, linemates, position coach, equipment guys, agent, girlfriend, wife, parents, siblings someone knows what's going on or can at least give an indication of unusual behavior.

This isn't rocket science it's all about following through and being thorough with that follow up. It's pretty obvious to me that leadership clearly failed here.

 

[hoops]

If you wanted Martin cut because he sucks...then hey, right there with you.

Two wrongs dont make a right. Just because other rookies dont have a problem with being insulted because of their skin colors, people threatening their families, and being told they were going to be killed doesnt mean Martin was wrong for finding that insulting. NFL locker rooms arent a free pass to do whatever you want.

I get what you are saying, and ive probably come after you a bit too passionately, that these are salty characters. But at the same time, there was a systematic failure by our franchise in the dysfunction of this situation. I get tough love, but this passed well over that into dysfunction. In my opinion, its not surprising our line has totally failed the last few years. People were to busy trying to exploit each other instead of learning to trust each other.

i'm pretty sure philbin and the miami staff recording phone messages to make sure everything is above board is against the law...i don't know what you want these guys to do...last year on hard knocks samuda had a **** and balls on his head during camp i mean does that mean he goes awol and builds a case against the front office and management??? point is this stuff happens all the time...martins looking for a gain here and a way out...his personal issues have now become our issues

a guy should take heat from his teammates anyways when he misses 2 days of otas and doesn't explain why...doesn't need to get to the level this did obviously but there's an accountability with your teammates that obviously martin hasn't gained...and i guess i know why now...

 

[Spesh]

How do you know? It could have very well been handled the correct way by talking to the coach or team officials and not holding text messages and voicemails for 7 months only to have mommy and daddy expose the whole thing. Did you hear Hernandez told Welker he was going to kill him a couple years back? Did Welker cry to his mommy or alert Belicek? The reason they have the brotherhood of men in New England as you referred to it is things are handled internally and not through mommy and daddy. See what I mean?

Lack of lawsuits.

Oh, and ive known people who work in those locker rooms, but the lawsuit thing is number 1.

And ive already conceded Martin should have handled this like Richie: run to his papa so he can run onto a message board.

 

[hoops]

Violence for entertainment is unique to the NFL? :sidelol: Im sorry, have you watched any American television in the last...oh...ever?

I "get" teammates are suppose to treat each other differently then opposing team members. I hope even youd agree with that.

:sidelol: Theres no place in the NFL for civil liberties(screw the constitution, the founder fathers werent "real" men!) and the league isnt a corporation. Awesome. Best thing ive seen all weekend and i just beat the living crap out of TheWalrus in Fantasy Football. Thanks man, needed the laugh.

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And you sound like someone who relies on other people to validate your self esteem.

Im good with your comparison if your good with mine.

yeah cause i don't beat to my own drum...your comparison sucks...

 

[DefensiveEnd76]

How many other teams have a thug (Incognito) who uses racial slurs towards and then threatens a teammate while constantly harassing that teammate??

 

[hoops]

anyways i'm done with it...this team can survive without both of these clowns...if it was mckinnie we'd be screwed...just don't let this crap hang over the franchise and effect the 2nd half...

purge it from the lockerroom...terminate both these contracts...martins gonna have a hard time ever finding a front office to trust him again so you can bet he's gonna milk this puppy

i guess he's decided he's done with the nfl...no way someone brings in that turncoat and the scrutiny that comes with it...especially when they get done looking at his tape ha ha

 

[Spesh]

So Spesh your completely buying what the Martin's are selling? You don't find it weird someone saves a voice mail for 7 months? Don't find it weird that he has played pranks on other teammates and that was fine but when turned on him he snaps? Do you know the context of Richie's VM? Was he joking? I don't, I haven't heard the voicemail myself. Where is Martin now? Is Richies dad correct he is in rehab? If he leaves that way he makes no money but this way he can leave the game with his pay cheque maybe more with a law suit. Does this all just pass the sniff test for you? It doesn't for me. I need to know more before I pass judgement. Martins side has been so calculating not caring, that in itself is disturbing.

Martin has been dealing with this abuse since day 1, roughly...what, 18 months? That he saves voicemails from 7 months ago is understandable. He wanted it to stop one way or another, and he knew this organization wouldnt do to the right thing because they didnt even see a problem with the behavior. And they didnt. It took him whistleblowing to get anything done. Much like many other whistleblower cases. Which is why there are federal laws(which are ignored half the time) protecting whistleblowers. This isnt unique.

And we had a dysfunctional locker room. To do anything different was to be an outcast. Martin didnt do the right thing during his own pranks, but had he avoided them he would have been made a target. Like he has been. Again: he was wrong...but 2 wrongs dont make a right .

Richie could have been joking the entire time during the voicemails. But the voicemails arent the only thing that lead up to this. Its one in a long string of incidents. Perhaps the voicemails were joking, but there has been enough there to make people uneasy. Richie wasnt voted "NFL's dirtiest player" on accident. He makes people uneasy. He declared he was cured of his demons. He lied, he just turned to a different source for his perverse pleasure.

Lets stop this "lawsuit" bull**** please Finheaven. Had Martin developed into a top tier left tackle, he would be banking $50 million(and thats just now, not inflation 2 years from now). Even if he was bad, he still would have walked away with what...10? 15 million? Whatever he gets in a lawsuit isnt going to equal that. With the NFL's lawyers, not even close.

 

[hoops]

why would we stop with the lawsuits talk??? he's making 2nd round rookie money most of which was paid in a bonus when he signed....he can make more in a lump sum in a lawsuit especially when miami caves and settles out of court with the nfls pushing for it...

which would/will happen...

as far as anyone else signing him though he's burned that bridge...no way in hell you bring that potential firestorm into your building...

he'll milk it

 

[Spesh]

why would we stop with the lawsuits talk??? he's making 2nd round rookie money most of which was paid in a bonus when he signed....he can make more in a lump sum in a lawsuit especially when miami caves and settles out of court with the nfls pushing for it...

which would/will happen...

And he could make vastly more by just playing a game hes played since a child.

Work ethic has never been Martin's problem. Being around a sociopath is.

No chance he walks away with $50 million(top tier contract) from the NFL in a lawsuit. None. At all. The former players who are dropping dead on the street due to brain damage walked out with $765 million. No chance he walks out of that courtroom with anything even remotely near an average left tackle salary. And thats assuming it even gets to court, the NFL is masterful at delaying cases.

 

[hoops]

And he could make vastly more by just playing a game hes played since a child.

Work ethic has never been Martin's problem. Being around a sociopath is.

No chance he walks away with $50 million(top tier contract) from the NFL in a lawsuit. None. At all. The former players who are dropping dead on the street due to brain damage walked out with $765 million. No chance he walks out of that courtroom with anything even remotely near an average left tackle salary. And thats assuming it even gets to court, the NFL is masterful at delaying cases.

what on gods green earth watching him play EVER makes you think he'll sniff $50 mil contract as a pro??? don't tell me you think that he'd be an all pro if not for this harrassing...the guys not that level spesh...nor will he ever be...hell if he wasnt on a rookie contract and cheap i doubt he'd be back next year before all this...his cheap contract is the only thing that makes him an asset

he was closer to playing himself out of the league than playing into it long term right now...

this is a guy that has never been told he's not the man getting told he's not and not being able to handle it and deal with it...call it a mental illness call it whatever you want i call it find another profession

 

[joenhre]

now it's time to insert watkins at left guard and forget these two were ever on the roster...if this team carries this martin witch hunt bs into next mondays game i will be furious...cut cog tell martin his contract is terminated and to grow a pair (if only we could) and play it out the rest of the way..

and tell the national media to suck it philbin....

Exactly, time to put this BS behind and move on to football. This team needs to focus on winning games. The Division or a wildcard spot are still up for grabs.

 

[Inch78]

too bad miami can't cut martin now...the national media has this now...anyone who saves that kind of vmail message has alterior motives folks...up next likely a law suit against the dolphins...martins a wuss...if he had a pair he would have heard that message and confronted cog in the lockerroom...the guys looking for a way out...holding philbin responsible is rediculous...

jon martin the guy who cried wolf...man up and knock cog into next week it stops...instead he saves vmail messages and builds a case for a lawsuit...screw that sorry piece of crap tackle anyways....

no skin off my back we lose cog either cause he's lead footed but this is a witch hunt by martin...a guy that mentally can't handle the nfl...go back to wherever you came from...the nfl is a mans sport...

sorry state of affairs we live in...feel bad for my kids...litigation every where...excuses and hand outs

Hoops, you're one of the best posters on here, but I think you're off base with this one.You mention feeling bad for your kids, but if if one of them was being bullied at school, would you rather they dealt with it themselves and punched the other kid (risking suspension, possible criminal charges etc), or would you rather tthey told you so you could handle it appropriately?

All this macho BS about Martin should have handled this himself etc. He sought advice from his family, took himself away from the situation and then let the management know what was going on.That is pretty much a textbook way that an adult or child should deal with such a situation. Why should martin put himself in physical or criminal danger by turning this into a physical alteration. I'm sure he'd liked to have talked to teammates about it, but I'm guessing 'big weirdo' didn't have too many close buddies on the team he felt comfortable with.