Schefter: Kubiak high on Fins radar

[J. David Wannyheimer]

A tale of two teams.

Rank (Points Scored):

Year  Denver Rank   Houston Rank
2000        2            -
2001       10            -
2002        7           32
2003       10           28
2004        9           21
2005        7           26 
2006       17           28 
2007       21           12
2008       16           17
2009       20           10
2010       19            9
2011       25           10

That chart begins with the year that Brian Griese was named the opening day starter for Denver and ends with Tim Tebow's last snap in Denver.

Do you know what happened during the 2005-2006 offseason?

 

[spiketex]

Did you see my previous post on who his top rushers and receivers were in Houston? Kevin Walter? I watch a lot of football and I didn't even know who that was. 7th rounder drafted by the Giants out of EASTERN MICHIGAN. Real blue-chipper there. Steve Slaton? The corpse of Ron Dayne? Johnson and Schaub have also been injured a LOT.

As for Arian Foster, do you think he's an amazing talent, or do you think that maybe Gary Kubiak knows how to get production out of guys? Because let's flash back here:

He made Brian Griese a Pro Bowler. He got 1100 yards out of Olandis Gary. How about Mike Anderson? 1500 yards with a 5.0 average. Mike Anderson. 1200 yards out of Reuben Droughns. He literally got a better rushing season out of Reuben Droughns than we could get out of Ronnie Brown, Reggie Bush, or Lamar Miller. He's a bad coach?

Yeah, look at those all star blue chip players he's worked with his entire career. When he did have great talent, Clinton Portis rushed for 3,000 yards in two years. That was with the 'amazing' QB play of Brian Griese and Jake Plummer.


It's utterly stunning to me that anyone looks at the offenses of Gary Kubiak's teams through his career and thinks "Yeah, those guys were loaded with all pro talent." They weren't. Some poor team is going to shell out a ton of money for Ben Tate in free agency and find that out real fast.

Thanks J David - Excuse my ignorance - I immediately thought of Johnson and Foster, without thinking further back. Some guys can handle the demotion from Head Coach to Coordinator and others can't. When you have been a Head Coach for many years, ego can get in the way. Some make the transition but probably 50% are not hungry enough. Most important thing would be gauging his hunger for the role. Regardless of his past accomplishments, if he's not hungry, I don't want him.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Here's a quarterback. Let's call him "Quarterback A." He played for Team "B" with and without Gary Kubiak. Here's what he did with and without Gary Kubiak:

With Gary Kubiak at Team B:
Completed 60% of passes, 7.5 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 1.76, and an 88.1 passer rating.

Without Gary Kubiak at Team B:
Completed 55% of passes, 6.3 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 0.84, and a 68.8 passer rating.

Same team. Was there for a consecutive number of years. Some years he had Kubiak, other years he did not.

At other teams without Kubiak:
Completed 55% of passes, 6.4 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 1.0, and a 74.6 passer rating.


Now, YOU TELL ME if Gary Kubiak can coach a QB friendly offense, Southbeach?

He took a guy with a career passer rating of about 72 and turned him into a PRO BOWLER with an 88.1 passer rating. He doubled his TD:INT ratio. He increased his YPA (the uber stat!!!) by over a full yard. Increased his completion percentage by a full 5%.

He literally made the difference for this guy between a total scrap heap player with a Kordell Stewartesque career stat line (because we know stats mean everything!) and being a productive Pro Bowl player. Oh, and that year he had on Team B without Gary Kubiak? It was a year adjacent to his Pro Bowl year. With largely the same cast of players around him.

The difference was Gary Kubiak.

So, Southbeach, if you think Gary Kubiak's history as an offensive coordinator indicates that he has done nothing worth mentioning with the passing game and the quarterbacks who have played under him, I think you are living on a planet orbiting another sun.

 

[So Be]

Thanks J David - Excuse my ignorance - I immediately thought of Johnson and Foster, without thinking further back. Some guys can handle the demotion from Head Coach to Coordinator and others can't. When you have been a Head Coach for many years, ego can get in the way. Some make the transition but probably 50% are not hungry enough. Most important thing would be gauging his hunger for the role. Regardless of his past accomplishments, if he's not hungry, I don't want him.

I don't see much reason to go back to go back to where the game was completely different. Over the last few years, he was nothing special as a HC with some great talent, and who knows how much he had to do with the O.

 

[Phinatic8u]

I don't see much reason to go back to go back to where the game was completely different. Over the last few years, he was nothing special as a HC with some great talent, and who knows how much he had to do with the O.

What talent did he have on O?

That whole team is overrated besides Watt and Johnson.

 

[So Be]

Here's a quarterback. Let's call him "Quarterback A." He played for Team "B" with and without Gary Kubiak. Here's what he did with and without Gary Kubiak:

With Gary Kubiak at Team B:
Completed 60% of passes, 7.5 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 1.76, and an 88.1 passer rating.

Without Gary Kubiak at Team B:
Completed 55% of passes, 6.3 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 0.84, and a 68.8 passer rating.

Same team. Was there for a consecutive number of years. Some years he had Kubiak, other years he did not.

At other teams without Kubiak:
Completed 55% of passes, 6.4 yards per attempt, TD:INT Ratio of 1.0, and a 74.6 passer rating.


Now, YOU TELL ME if Gary Kubiak can coach a QB friendly offense, Southbeach?

He took a guy with a career passer rating of about 72 and turned him into a PRO BOWLER with an 88.1 passer rating. He doubled his TD:INT ratio. He increased his YPA (the uber stat!!!) by over a full yard. Increased his completion percentage by a full 5%.

He literally made the difference for this guy between a total scrap heap player with a Kordell Stewartesque career stat line (because we know stats mean everything!) and being a productive Pro Bowl player. Oh, and that year he had on Team B without Gary Kubiak? It was a year adjacent to his Pro Bowl year. With largely the same cast of players around him.

The difference was Gary Kubiak.

So, Southbeach, if you think Gary Kubiak's history as an offensive coordinator indicates that he has done nothing worth mentioning with the passing game and the quarterbacks who have played under him, I think you are living on a planet orbiting another sun.

New planets are fun. :) In all due respect, what is it your attempting to show with this post? Is it what he did many years ago as an OC with Elway or, what he did as a HC not controlling the O, which underperformed based on taleny, IMO?

 

[LANGER72]

Not sure how much interest teams would have in him as their head coach at this point so he may be open to it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 FHD

He may sense that Philbin could be vulnerable next year, and he could replace him.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I'm trying to point out that he's one of the best offensive coordinators in the NFL and has demonstrated that he can turn scrapheap scrub quarterbacks into productive Pro Bowl players.

I don't see much reason to go back to go back to where the game was completely different. Over the last few years, he was nothing special as a HC with some great talent, and who knows how much he had to do with the O.

Quarterbacks who have started a full 16 game season under Gary Kubiak:

John Elway
Brian Griese
Jake Plummer
David Carr
Matt Schaub

Elway is a great player who had the best years of his career... under Gary Kubiak. The best two year span of his career was easily the last two he spent playing for Gary Kubiak. When he was 37 and then 38 years old.

Brian Griese was a scrub. You saw him play here in Miami. You saw him play in Tampa. He went to a Pro Bowl under Gary Kubiak in Denver.

Jake Plummer is QB A from the above example. HE SUCKED. He was a BAD quarterback. He was an effective player who put points on the board and got himself into a Pro Bowl playing for Gary Kubiak.

David Carr is a garbage quarterback who has a career passer rating of 74.9. He had one of his better years under Kubiak, who promptly dumped his ass for Atlanta's garbage backup, Matt Schaub.

Matt Schaub had a sub 70 passer rating in spot duty for the Falcons when he was a backup there. He was nothing special. Gary Kubiak brings him in to Houston and turns him into a multiple Pro Bowler who was averaging about 8 YPA (omg!) who didn't throw a lot of interceptions and was pretty damn efficient up until the wheels completely fell off this season.

But he's made his name off of amazing blue chip talent because he coached Elway and Andre Johnson, right?

 

[So Be]

What talent did he have on O?

That whole team is overrated besides Watt and Johnson.

Oh I don't know. Maybe Duane Brown (maybe the best OT in the game), Myers, Brooks, A Johnson, Foster and Tate, and Owen Daniels. That's a whole lotta talent.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Oh I don't know. Maybe Duane Brown (maybe the best OT in the game), Myers, Brooks, A Johnson, Foster and Tate, and Owen Daniels. That's a whole lotta talent.

Foster and Tate are products of the zbs scheme.

As individual runners there solid, but nothing spectacular.

 

[So Be]

I'm trying to point out that he's one of the best offensive coordinators in the NFL and has demonstrated that he can turn scrapheap scrub quarterbacks into productive Pro Bowl players.



Quarterbacks who have started a full 16 game season under Gary Kubiak:

John Elway
Brian Griese
Jake Plummer
David Carr
Matt Schaub

Elway is a great player who had the best years of his career... under Gary Kubiak. The best two year span of his career was easily the last two he spent playing for Gary Kubiak. When he was 37 and then 38 years old.

Brian Griese was a scrub. You saw him play here in Miami. You saw him play in Tampa. He went to a Pro Bowl under Gary Kubiak in Denver.

Jake Plummer is QB A from the above example. HE SUCKED. He was a BAD quarterback. He was an effective player who put points on the board and got himself into a Pro Bowl playing for Gary Kubiak.

David Carr is a garbage quarterback who has a career passer rating of 74.9. He had one of his better years under Kubiak, who promptly dumped his ass for Atlanta's garbage backup, Matt Schaub.

Matt Schaub had a sub 70 passer rating in spot duty for the Falcons when he was a backup there. He was nothing special. Gary Kubiak brings him in to Houston and turns him into a multiple Pro Bowler who was averaging about 8 YPA (omg!) who didn't throw a lot of interceptions and was pretty damn efficient up until the wheels completely fell off this season.

But he's made his name off of amazing blue chip talent because he coached Elway and Andre Johnson, right?

Not trying to pick on ya but, the OC days are Long gone, and his team as a HC underperformed with a ton of talent. I'm not impressed at all.

 

[So Be]

Foster and Tate are products of the zbs scheme.

As individual runners there solid, but nothing spectacular.

So, Kubiac invented ZBS or let them run behind a VG OL who could block? He had his short lived success in running and running for two years, and was far from special in the passing game, even with the great run game. Hell, if he could bring that same run game and OL to Miami, I would jump to hire him but, he cannot,

 

[BIG_FISH_RI]

Some people just hear names and think of the most recent. To really appreciate Kubiak you have to look at his time dating back to Denver. He made sugar from DOO DOO.... He made players look great and the system that he is known for running fits right in with the roster Miami has in place. Tanny would be a bootleg king. Can't see how most fans would think this was a bad idea.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Because in this very thread we got people talking about the AMAZING talent of Owen Daniels (4th round pick and sure ain't no Gronk), Arian Foster (UDFA), Case Keenum (UDFA), Kevin Walter (7th round pick), etc. It's hysterical.

Not trying to pick on ya but, the OC days are Long gone, and his team as a HC underperformed with a ton of talent. I'm not impressed at all.

Don't worry, even if you were trying to pick on me, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be doing a good job of it here.

 

[So Be]

Some people just hear names and think of the most recent. To really appreciate Kubiak you have to look at his time dating back to Denver. He made sugar from DOO DOO.... He made players look great and the system that he is known for running fits right in with the roster Miami has in place. Tanny would be a bootleg king. Can't see how most fans would think this was a bad idea.

Yeah, looking at what on OC did 8 years ago matters. Thaks Rip.

Rip Van Winkle reference for those not knowing.