Schlereth article

[LouPhinFan]

I can't tell you what goes on in the average NFL locker room but I have read stories about the JJ era Cowboys and I know all about Bill Romanowski, so it simply seems bizarre to me that people like Mark Schlereth would get up and turn into social justice warriors about this and act as if such things -- or worse -- never happened in their locker rooms.

I've never been on "Team Incog," I think Richie is human garbage, and I'll be glad when some other team signs him so that he's not brought up in connection with Miami anymore -- but he's not even the worst piece of **** to play in the NFL this decade, much less in my lifetime.

Do you not see the contradictions in the bold parts above?

I'm not talking about hard partying here, so you can throw the Cowboys stuff out the window, it's not even the same thing. We're talking about Incognito, Pouncey, who knows who else creating toxic environment in the Dolphins lockerroom that was apparently much more extreme than in most every other NFL lockerrooms. Like I said before, I'm not expecting choirboys (they can party all they want) but they have to, at the very least, act like human beings much less professionals.

 

[Glaxocon]

Martin likely has a touch of a schizoid personality disorder. Look up the Mayo clinic definition of this character disorder. In a nutshell it speaks of naturally highly caring children being raised in a family that is generally speaking not very caring - often because they have no idea how to care about others nor the virtues and rewards that it produces.

Martin may be "depressed" and other things that go along with the underlying Schizoid Personality Disorder (even if he has just a touch of it) but these other aspects of his troubles are likely periphery to his core personality disorder (very moderate).

I think it was very weird that Martin chose to communicate his emotions and what he was going through with his parents through text messaging. By doing that I see a huge disconnect between him and his parents. The texts with his parents were used in the Wells Report because it was actually written and anything else would be "hearsay" so if they did contact through phone and/or face to face it wouldn't be noted in the report. But to say those things in a text just seems weird to me. You can't actually convey to someone the totality in the way you are feeling through a text. It's just not the same. So I certainly agree that there could be something wrong with Martin and his emotional connection to his parents.

Schlereth is taking the sensitive approach. Which most media outlets are doing. Can't blame the guy for that, its easier that way and more socially acceptable. To me his article seemed like more of a story about him than Martin. IMO anyone who relates a Childhood story to this whole saga is out of touch with not bullying but what it means to be an adult and deal with issues as an adult. I preferred the part of his article that actually spoke about his time in the NFL and the way he dealt with his particular issues.

Truth of the matter is two extremes were needed for things to happen they way they did and maybe more than a few disorders on both sides.

On a good note: things can't get worse for the organization (or so I hope). Incognito and Martin will be gone and we will probably get the most closely watched lockerroom in NFL history, more guys will be held accountable for their actions and I think that will spew over to the playing field.

 

[FinHopeful]

Do you think it's conducive to winning championships when players try to break the spirit of their teammates?

I get why the Dolphin's situation was good for Incognito; he got to feed his demons. But I'd love to hear somebody make the case as to why it was good for the team that Incognito was a Dolphin. He certainly didn't make the players around him play better because we saw how good the Oline unit was when he was on the field. He certainly didn't pull the locker room together in a positive way.

Exactly. An offensive line needs to have good team work. Anything that breaks down the cohesion of the group has to go. This is one of the reasons our offensive line under performs. Talent is very important, but it is not the only ingredient in great offensive line play.

 

[Bob512]

I would fully expect the media types to take the high road on this issue and while not necessarily siding with Martin....at least empathize with him. Shouldn't surprise any of us....

However, the indignation that this type of stuff didn't occur in their era or locker room is absurd. This stuff goes on all the time. The difference in this case, is the system that helps keep it in check broke down and that should be the lesson here. Philbin, relied on his asst. coaches and staff to keep him apprised of any issues that were brewing or required his attention. They failed him...plain and simple. Lesson learned and I'm sure he will make whatever changes are necessary to correct it in the future.

As a manager of people, it is impossible to know what is going on everywhere at all times. I rely on my managers to keep me informed and they have my trust that they will do so until they prove they are untrustworthy. Once that happens, time to make changes.....

 

[HoneyB]

I get why the Dolphin's situation was good for Incognito; he got to feed his demons. But I'd love to hear somebody make the case as to why it was good for the team that Incognito was a Dolphin. He certainly didn't make the players around him play better because we saw how good the Oline unit was when he was on the field.

Bingo.

It was good for Richie, not so good for the locker room, not so good for the product on the field, not so good for the fans.

Sadists and classic abusers NEED this stuff, they need these kinds of relationships. Martin didn't want it or need it. What Martin did want, was the respect of his teammates, and probably also wanted a friend. Incognito stepped right into that role, he knew Martin was vulnerable in that respect, and knew he could keep him down, if he played his cards right.

Not that I'm qualified to psychoanalyze Incognito, but I'm guessing that Incognito did a lot for Martin, being his confidant, his defender in some ways, because it left him with a clear conscience. He could sleep at night. Then the next day he can continue his abuse, because that's what he craved.

In no situation was it enough for Incognito to just party. That time on the boat, when Incognito embarrassed Martin in front of women, letting them know in no uncertain terms that Incognito owned Martin, and Martin was his b*tch, was one example for me how Incognito fed off of this. He needed to abuse, not just drink, not just do drugs, not just horse around.

 

[HoneyB]

I think it was very weird that Martin chose to communicate his emotions and what he was going through with his parents through text messaging. By doing that I see a huge disconnect between him and his parents.

It was not weird. Sometimes it's hard to say something in person but to write it down gives you the space and comfort to express how you feel, fully. Martin said that in the texts, in fact. No mystery here.

When I first heard he was texting his mother, I thought, what a mama's boy. But I see that he has great parents. He talked to both his father and mother and his father was able to share times when, as an educated black man, he had to bite the bullet and look the other way, and other times had to take the risk and get physical. Likewise, I thought his mother's thought process was very intuitive. They were both supportive.

The reality is, Martin got through his year of hazing, despite his internal struggle. When he came back from Stanford after the off-season, he came back not as a respected man, a black man, but he came back to Richie Incognito as a punk. Richie couldn't even wait to punk him, he had to tell him via text before he even landed in Miami, that he would pick up where he left off, with the abuse.

 

[raving]

Martin was not a victim in this - he is playing the victim card, but he was not a victim.

He was an elite athlete - a Stanford graduate.

An immature pot smoking, strip bar attending 20 something running around with his buddies behaving like them!

He was making $850,000 a year.

Most NFL players go through many similar things as Martin - in terms of hazing - its part of the culture.

Incognito is an immature, mean-spirited jerk - I know the type well.

Its so bad for Martin in his life to have lived out being a victim in this fashion.

The rest is political correctness gone wild.

I am far from convinced that his parents were "great parents".

Likely, they were only able to care in the way they know how to care - and the rest is about players - especially Martin - being flailed open for all to see - and so far we all agree it ain't pretty for all involved!

 

[Bob512]

Bingo.

It was good for Richie, not so good for the locker room, not so good for the product on the field, not so good for the fans.

Wait, wasn't Incognito a Pro Bowler in 2013? Why wouldn't he be on the field?

 

[Cleetus]

For all the people that say Ritchie should have never been on this team to begin with I would add that neither should Jonathon Martin. It was a huge failure by our front office to allow him to slip through the cracks of our psych evaluations and interview processes to be drafted so high. I hope our new GM has a better grasp on this than Ireland apparently did.