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Seau was part of...

One thing that really illustrates the point for me...As much as we all love Zach, we also know that he doesn't turn it on till game day. And while we all know he brings 110% ON game day...compare that to Junior who throws a fit because while the D didn't make a big play IN A MINI-CAMP...and the O still failed to score. THAT'S intensity!! THAT'S fire and drive. That's saying that "good enough" isn't good enough.
 
Originally posted by Tatonka


fair enough.. BUT.. without seau, it is essentially the same defense that was completely healthy last year, and the several years before that .. a defense that has always been loaded with talent, but cant get over the hump. lucas didnt play on defense last time i looked.
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Our defense wasn't completely healthy last year. Our D relies a great deal on great cb play and pass rush. Last year Madison was injured in the preseason and played injured all season. Taylor had a recurring groin injury. He was hurt just before the KC game and KC torched us. Taylor also reinjured it in the 4th quarter of the NE game and our passrush dissappeared during NE's comeback.
 
Originally posted by Tatonka
i know your gonna say, well we still got sammy knight if seau plays bad.. and while he is a playmaker, he is also making your overall defense slower, and is not a proven leader like seau is, i when i say "essentially the same" i say that meaning that seau is the big piece and sammy is not a monsterous upgrade over freeman who is a good player in his own right.
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Given the numbers Knight put up versus the numbers Freeman put up, I'd say that it's at LEAST as big of a talent upgrade as Junior over Rodgers. Further, Knight brings a physicality to our Safety position that has been lacking.
 
Guys, he is just trying to find reasons to think we are not any better> Fact of the matter is that a lot came into play last season for us to fall apart. We have upgraded some positions, and should be considerably better.

My question to the bills fans. What makes you think that bringing in guys from other teams are going to better your team any? Spikes doesn't know how to win. Adams? Come on, he is getting old, and carrying that weight around can't be good come 3rd and 4th quarter. You did upgrade on paper, but until your teams actually plays come September, your defense is a major question mark. You can't bring in a bunch of guys and expect them to play together off the bat. Our defense is made and proven, and know where each other is going to be. Will Spikes know the whole defense back to front come game time? That is yet to be known.

We, the Dolphins gave them their high hopes, by inserting a piece of crap QB in Lucas. Again, had Fiedler been healthy, chances are we win both of those games, take the division, and they would be 6-10. How successful would your season be then?
 
Originally posted by Tatonka
a team that started strong and collapsed the last two years.

why do you guys feel that he can come here and change the propensity the fins have shown for doing the same thing. starting strong and finishing weak.

this is not a flame, this is an straight forward question.
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Simple answer IMO, In SD the Chargers relied on Seau to carry the full load...where as to hear hes brought in to help share the load
 
Re: Re: Seau was part of...

Originally posted by Predaphin34


Simple answer IMO, In SD the Chargers relied on Seau to carry the full load...where as to hear hes brought in to help share the load
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Good point. Infact Tatonka's point could be taken as an unwitting endorsement for Seau. To associate Junior with his team's failure, one could also look at previous San Diego defenses containing marginal talent, where the unit has been very solid, so by the same logic, Junior has been a catalist for their success.

Junior does not need to play to an All pro standard in order for Miami to be successful. What he brings, is leadership, intensity, a better knowlege (and performance) of the game than Derrick Rodgers had. Junior is also wise enough to avoid the key penalties that killed the Phins last year. A good example is the penalty by Rodgers (I think it was against Buff) where he made a great play by dropping the RB for a 3 yard loss, only to make a bonehead decision to taunt. The result of the penatly kept the drive alive and completely altered the game's momentum.

Take away silly mistakes and add a few solid plays, and the Phins defense may already be a couple of drive stops better this year.

Whichever way you slice it.....Defense - Rodgers + Seau = net gain.
 
I'm still pissed we didn't win that Jet game where Chambers "didn't have possession" in the endzone? :cry:

That one play right there could of made a huge impact.
 
Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
I'm still pissed we didn't win that Jet game where Chambers "didn't have possession" in the endzone? :cry:

That one play right there could of made a huge impact.
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There are a handfull of plays that could've changed our season. How about the guy we bring in, that's supposed to make those catches, drops the main one right on the goal line. THANKS CARTER. How about Mare not kicking out of bounds? Lots of stuff pisses me off about last season.:yell:
 
Originally posted by Tatonka
i know your gonna say, well we still got sammy knight if seau plays bad.. and while he is a playmaker, he is also making your overall defense slower, and is not a proven leader like seau is, i when i say "essentially the same" i say that meaning that seau is the big piece and sammy is not a monsterous upgrade over freeman who is a good player in his own right.
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ahem....

Where did you get that Sammy Knight is "slow"?
Where do you get Sammy Knight is not a proven leader?
Sammy Knight is one of the hardest hitting safeties (if not the hardest) in the NFL. He does not have a great 40 time, sure, but football ain't a track meet. Knight has football speed and more importantly football instinct.

The reason why Knight is no longer a Saint is because he wasn't a Haslett guy (and Ricky can tell you how that goes) and because, as it's become an annual ritual, Sammy wins the "scapegoat for the collapse since I am not a Haslett player" award for the horrible play of the entire defense last year. Well, he's co-winner with Kyle Turley, who won it for the Offense..

Sammy Knight brings it on every Sunday.
And just like I told all of you guys last year when RW became a dolphin, this is a heck of an adquisition by the Dolphins.
 
Tatonka, I for 1 think you had a valid question. You wanted stats to support soem of our beleifs and I think I have them for you. Last year he had 84 tackles in 13 games which equates to about 6 1/2 tackles a game. he had 11 "stufs", 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 1 int. Thats a total of 15 "impact" plays in 13 games- or just over an average of 1 per game(1.15 a game)! Last year Junior either Led the team in takcles or was 2nd on the team in tackles in 6 of 13 games. Obviously you realize he was injured and slowed part of the season as well. But still this old, hobbled player managed to be in the top 2 almost 50% of the time.

At the pace he played last year in 3 less game he wouldve ended up (most likely) with stats as impressive as what he had in 2001,1999 and 1997.
In 1997 when he as just 28 years old he had 97 tackles in 15 games ( 6.46 a game) 9 stuffs ,7 sacks ,1 forced fumble and 1 int.

The only MAJOR difference was the fact he had 5 less sacks last year. Seau had a total of 18 impact plays in 15 games(1.2 a game)in 1997.

When I say impact play I am referring to an OBVIOUS negative yardage play (sack or stuff) or a forced turnover(INT or Fumble).

Now combine that with the fact that he is playing on a talented "D" that has good pressure from the front 4 a good secondary and a very talented middle LB and it easy to see why we are sure that Seau will only elevate this "D".

Compare to Rodgers in 16 games he had just 74 tackles 2 int's and 4 stuffs 0 sacks and 0 Forced Fumbles. That is 6 impact plays in 16 games or .37 per game. So basically 1 "impact play" every 3 games. Now what "IF" we couldve got one more IMPACT play in the Jets, NE or Miiny game? Well we are hoping that the law of averages works in our favor. The evidence shows he is good for that one per game and a little more every 6 games or so.

One more thing to consider, I bring this up b/c the issue of age seems to be a BIG factor when discussing Junior.

How Old was Hardy Nickerson in 1999 and how many years was in he in the league when he made the Pro bowl for the BUCS in 1999?

I ask this becasue I see a parallel.
Here it is: All Pro player, Up in age, competing on a team where he ISNT the only major talent on the squad.

Tatonka I hope this satisfies your thirst for knowledge as well as your curiousity concerning Dol-Fans optimism.

pk
 
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Shhhhhh.....No matter how they would like to slice it, we are SuperBowl Bound This Year..
 
Originally posted by Tatonka
a team that started strong and collapsed the last two years.

why do you guys feel that he can come here and change the propensity the fins have shown for doing the same thing. starting strong and finishing weak.

this is not a flame, this is an straight forward question.
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He isn't being brought here as a saviour...

He was brought in because he's an immediate upgrade over Derrick Rodgers... And EVERYTHING I have read regarding Seau quotes him as basically saying he's fluff on an otherwise solid defense... He has said, time and again, that this team doesn't need leaders, they have leaders in JT, Zach, and Surtain...



Why do so many non-Dolphin fans keep spewing the same crap, that we brought him here to be our fearless leader???
 
Originally posted by knoxpk
Tatonka, I for 1 think you had a valid question. You wanted stats to support soem of our beleifs and I think I have them for you. Last year he had 84 tackles in 13 games which equates to about 6 1/2 tackles a game. he had 11 "stufs", 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 1 int. Thats a total of 15 "impact" plays in 13 games- or just over an average of 1 per game(1.15 a game)! Last year Junior either Led the team in takcles or was 2nd on the team in tackles in 6 of 13 games. Obviously you realize he was injured and slowed part of the season as well. But still this old, hobbled player managed to be in the top 2 almost 50% of the time.

At the pace he played last year in 3 less game he wouldve ended up (most likely) with stats as impressive as what he had in 2001,1999 and 1997.
In 1997 when he as just 28 years old he had 97 tackles in 15 games ( 6.46 a game) 9 stuffs ,7 sacks ,1 forced fumble and 1 int.

The only MAJOR difference was the fact he had 5 less sacks last year. Seau had a total of 18 impact plays in 15 games(1.2 a game)in 1997.

When I say impact play I am referring to an OBVIOUS negative yardage play (sack or stuff) or a forced turnover(INT or Fumble).

Now combine that with the fact that he is playing on a talented "D" that has good pressure from the front 4 a good secondary and a very talented middle LB and it easy to see why we are sure that Seau will only elevate this "D".

Compare to Rodgers in 16 games he had just 74 tackles 2 int's and 4 stuffs 0 sacks and 0 Forced Fumbles. That is 6 impact plays in 16 games or .37 per game. So basically 1 "impact play" every 3 games. Now what "IF" we couldve got one more IMPACT play in the Jets, NE or Miiny game? Well we are hoping that the law of averages works in our favor. The evidence shows he is good for that one per game and a little more every 6 games or so.

One more thing to consider, I bring this up b/c the issue of age seems to be a BIG factor when discussing Junior.

How Old was Hardy Nickerson in 1999 and how many years was in he in the league when he made the Pro bowl for the BUCS in 1999?

I ask this becasue I see a parallel.
Here it is: All Pro player, Up in age, competing on a team where he ISNT the only major talent on the squad.

Tatonka I hope this satisfies your thirst for knowledge as well as your curiousity concerning Dol-Fans optimism.

pk
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one of the best posts i have read from a fish fan..

color me convinced.. jr will be a stud.

again.. good post.
 
Good point, one play may put them over the top.

To compare Seau's team collapse late in the season would not be fair to his individual ability. The Raiders happened to the Chargers both seasons, ending win streaks with stompings that led to losing streaks.

If Seau was the reason the Chargers withered, then it would be safe to assume the SPikes will lead you to a 2 win season since he obviously didnt have the intangible leadership qualities to make teammates better?

Moot point, both players have more help around them now, less focus on them, and chances to be playmakers for teams that are playoff fringe.

Tatonka how is the McGahee gimp fallout in Buffalo going? If they need fundraising help for his recovery maybe Sammy Davis the rat pack Chargers db can come in and do a little song and dance. Browns fans will throw him free beer. Bills fans may throw their season tix at him as well.

Ahhh, the possiblities...
 
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thanks tatonka. I was sure this was more along the lines of what you were looking for.
 
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