Seems Reasonable

[67Stang]

The two benchings when Fitzpatrick was able to take a dormant offense and ignite it was significant. Particularly since many considered Fitzpatrick a below average, journeyman not capable of leading an team to a shot at the playoffs. The Broncos and Raider games removed all excuses it was the players around him, and the only justification left was it had to be the Gailey was calling different plays that was the problem in Tua's defense.

Burrow and Herbet's success, particularly Herbert since Miami could have drafted him was also a factor.

There are more reasons, but those are the main ones imo.

You have to take the good with the bad with Fitzpatrick....that includes acknowledging it. He has always had an ability to ignite, his issue is that ignition burns out. The Broncos game was a microcosm of his 16 year career. He looked great and with aggressive play calling scored a TD, and then next drive with the game on the line he forced the ball into double coverage when another receiver was wide open and lost the game.

Also Fitz was 3-3 with a full healthy team. Those 3 wins were against the 2 worst teams in the league that had a combined 3 wins on the season and a 49ers team with a QB playing on 1 leg and no Bosa. His losses were against good teams, which he has a 16 year track record of sucking against.

Both Burrow and Herbert had a plethera of weapons that were night and day better than anything we had. Our RBs and receivers (besides a hurt Parker) would be 4th string and practice squad players on most teams. One of them (Ford) went from our PS to the Patriots PS and was one of our primary receivers the last few games. That is how bad it was. Also regardless of Herbert's stats with massive weapons around him, Tua beat him head to head with less talent around him.

 

[Kamelion4291]

The only problem with that rationalization is that when Fitz was benched after 6 games as a starter Miami was averaging 26.9 ppg on offense. There were no defensive or ST TDs at that point. There were no OTAs or preseason games in which 4 new OL including 2 rookies could build cohesion.

Only 4 Dolphin teams averaged more 26.9 ppg than that in Miami's 54 year history...1972 Dolphins, 1984-86 Dolphins. When the defensive and ST TDs for those teams are removed from their PPG, the Dolphins under Fitz this year would be the 2nd highest scoring offense in Dolphins history behind only the 1984 team in which Marino through 48 TDs.

I am not bashing Tua. I think he has the goods. And I agree the offense needs weapons around him. I am advocate of drafting 2 WRs and a RB with the first 4 picks.

I was also an advocate of sitting Tua all year long given he was coming off serious hip injury, there were no OTAs or preseason games. So I am not arguing he isn't going to be a franchise QB. The 3 QBs currently playing that will be considered top 10 all-time, if not top 5, and 1 is definitely #1 (Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes) all sat their first year.

My original post was about Tua receiving so much scrutiny and stated my opinion the top two reasons I thought that was the case.

The defenses across the NFL at the beginning of the year were also an unmitigated disaster. That skews the early offensive numbers.

 

[Michael Scott]

I think a lot of the scrutiny here is due to the fact that Herbie tore it up this year, at least statistically (had some serious late game issues, just like at Oregon). In a normal year you just don't have a rookie QB lighting it up and setting records like that. So, because we picked Tua over Herbert, despite the 99% of the fanbase crying for him for AT LEAST a year, if Tua doesn't match Justin's stats on a weekly basis, he's under heavy scrutiny.

I fully believe that if Herbert got drafted ahead of Tua, or Herbert simply didn't have the season he had..... This entire fanbase would have a positive outlook on a rookie QB coming from a major injury, no preseason, barely any off-season practice running with the 1s, etc. & having an expected up and down rookie season.

We've seen "really bad" rookie seasons where the hope becomes extremely dim moving forward, i.e. Josh Rosen in Arizona. Tua's 16 game projection is actually above average for the standard of rookie starting QB.

 

[NBP81]

The only problem with that rationalization is that when Fitz was benched after 6 games as a starter Miami was averaging 26.9 ppg on offense. There were no defensive or ST TDs at that point. There were no OTAs or preseason games in which 4 new OL including 2 rookies could build cohesion.

Combined record of those first 6 teams on the schedule... Plus the other game Fitz started vs NY Jets...
33 - 68
Combined record of teams Tua started against.
76 - 81

 

[deepsouth_46]

I think we are forgetting these articles aren’t being written in a vacuum. Houston is pushing back to try to raise their leverage lost when everyone knows Watson wants out. This isn’t necessarily for the dolphins, this is for any team contemplating a trade for him. There are going to be a ton of these articles written until he is traded.

Regarding the larger issue, everyone has a different opinion on what we should do. I honestly think we are in good shape if Watson is here, or if we surround Tua with more weapons. There isn’t just one way of reaching success. I appreciate that for once we seem to have a lot of cards to play no matter what we do. Just don’t get all the vitriol back and forth. As if believing getting Watson is the right way forward or getting more weapons for Tua makes the poster evil or a moron.

The upside is I have seen a lot of valid arguments on both sides when people aren’t just name calling.

Appreciate all these threads.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

Miami Dolphins Tua Tagovailoa is more scrutinized than previous QBs​

Miami Dolphins Tua Tagovailoa is more scrutinized than previous QBs

Lately, Tua Tagovailoa has become the popular whipping boy both from some fans and the media alike and it is not warranted.

phinphanatic.com

Tua Tagovailoa will be more than just fine. I expect him to be great. In the small sample size of this past season, I came away far more impressed than being left with a negative impression. When the offense opened up, he played really well. There is a lot to learn and unlike Herbert, Tagovailoa didn’t have top receivers to throw to. He threw to Jakeem Grant, Mack Hollins, Isaiah Ford, and yes, DeVante Parker who didn’t have as good a season as many hoped.

Tagovailoa had a suspect running back that was stuck behind a line that included three rookie starters. He took his licks and he got back up silencing those who thought his hip was now garbage. Tagovailoa has battled back at every stop along his career when he was told he couldn’t do something. He has turned it into motivation. Hopefully, all of this negative talk will turn to motivation. I suspect it will.

With a full off-season ahead, more than few months removed from his injury, and with a better offensive system and better supporting cast, Tagovailoa will be just fine and if the Texans don’t want him, good, I don’t want to give him to them anyways.

This is so that I don't even want to chime in...

 

[royalshank]

Being a relief pitcher can naturally ignite a spark and create big plays. Offense is usually stagnant. Team is behind. Defense is playing to prevent a bug play only. It’s far different than starting a game. So it’s unfair to compare because we have the starting record of a guy named Fitz. And it’s not good. And it’s over many seasons.

This is how Don Strock’s career played out here. Shula named him the starter for the 1980 season, backed up by Griese and Woodley. Strock struggled as no 1 and was pulled after 3 games. But he was called on a lot during the Woodley years and when he got in, the points went up. But he just wasn’t a “starter”.

 

[royalshank]

Once he proved a threat, he was doubled a bit more. Who else from the Dolphins scares a defense in 1 on 1 matchups?

Good point.

 

[Vaark]

 

[royalshank]

The only problem with that rationalization is that when Fitz was benched after 6 games as a starter Miami was averaging 26.9 ppg on offense. There were no defensive or ST TDs at that point. There were no OTAs or preseason games in which 4 new OL including 2 rookies could build cohesion.

Only 4 Dolphin teams averaged more 26.9 ppg than that in Miami's 54 year history...1972 Dolphins, 1984-86 Dolphins. When the defensive and ST TDs for those teams are removed from their PPG, the Dolphins under Fitz this year would be the 2nd highest scoring offense in Dolphins history behind only the 1984 team in which Marino through 48 TDs.

I am not bashing Tua. I think he has the goods. And I agree the offense needs weapons around him. I am advocate of drafting 2 WRs and a RB with the first 4 picks.

I was also an advocate of sitting Tua all year long given he was coming off serious hip injury, there were no OTAs or preseason games. So I am not arguing he isn't going to be a franchise QB. The 3 QBs currently playing that will be considered top 10 all-time, if not top 5, and 1 is definitely #1 (Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes) all sat their first year.

My original post was about Tua receiving so much scrutiny and stated my opinion the top two reasons I thought that was the case.

Water under the bridge now but this is why I thought Gailey was a master this season. Crazy scoring production w such little talent. He maximized what he had and then some.

 

[Vaark]

I thought that Flo played Fitz like a fine tuned Stradivarius.

He knew that once inserted with confidence, Fitz would get heady and revert to the inevitable downside of his cycle. To paraphrase philosopher Santayana: "He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it."

IMO we got more out of Fitz on the plus side than most students of the NFL would have expected.

 

[AdamD13]

Combined record of those first 6 teams on the schedule... Plus the other game Fitz started vs NY Jets...
33 - 68
Combined record of teams Tua started against.
76 - 81

C’mon are you really trying to credit Tua with the Rams victory and the Raiders victory?

The defense/ST scored 3 TDs in Tua starts and set up two 1 yard TD drives. That is 5 total TDs requiring a whopping “2” yards.

Even the Cardinals game in which Tua was impressive the defense scored a TD.

 

[EJay]

The two benchings when Fitzpatrick was able to take a dormant offense and ignite it was significant.

No it wasn’t. No different than when a bullpen pitcher has a good game against the same lineup of 9 that the starting pitcher struggled against. Doesn’t mean the starter sucks, doesn’t mean the reliever is better.

Furthermore, if that’s the path you wanna go down, then how significant was it that Tua played well (scored 2 TD’s) against and beat the Patriots whereas Fitz was terrible and lost?

Not only that, but Fitz faced NE with a full compliment of receivers whereas Tua was saddled with Bowden, Hollins and Ford.

Tua took an even more dormant cast and beat the team Fitz couldn’t despite more firepower available to him.

Doesn’t it go both ways?

 

[EJay]

C’mon are you really trying to credit Tua with the Rams victory and the Raiders victory?

If the QB gets blame when the team loses, then they should get equal credit when the team wins.

You seem to only want things to go in one direction. First step to confirmation bias.

The anti-Tua crowd had no problem pinning the BUF loss on Tua and ridiculously stating that things would have been different had Fitz been able to start all while ignoring how awful the defense and special teams were.

Mahomes could have been MIA’s QB that day and it wouldn’t have changed things for the Dolphins. MIA’s defense surrendered 35 points on drives of more than 50 yards and special teams gave up 7 points a long punt return TD. No QB was mustering 42+ with MIA’s talent on that day.

Circling back to the Rams game, Tua played well enough for his team to win. He didn’t make many mistakes for the Rams to capitalize on. That counts for a lot.

Funny, I’ve been reading people on this site crediting Chad Henne for his role in last week’s Chiefs win when he led their offense to a whopping 3 points the remainder of the game after subbing for Mahomes at near midfield. Yet Tua can’t get any credit for a W as the starting QB???

Crazy world we live in.

 

[Third Eye]

The only problem with that rationalization is that when Fitz was benched after 6 games as a starter Miami was averaging 26.9 ppg on offense. There were no defensive or ST TDs at that point. There were no OTAs or preseason games in which 4 new OL including 2 rookies could build cohesion.

Only 4 Dolphin teams averaged more 26.9 ppg than that in Miami's 54 year history...1972 Dolphins, 1984-86 Dolphins. When the defensive and ST TDs for those teams are removed from their PPG, the Dolphins under Fitz this year would be the 2nd highest scoring offense in Dolphins history behind only the 1984 team in which Marino through 48 TDs.

I am not bashing Tua. I think he has the goods. And I agree the offense needs weapons around him. I am advocate of drafting 2 WRs and a RB with the first 4 picks.

I was also an advocate of sitting Tua all year long given he was coming off serious hip injury, there were no OTAs or preseason games. So I am not arguing he isn't going to be a franchise QB. The 3 QBs currently playing that will be considered top 10 all-time, if not top 5, and 1 is definitely #1 (Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes) all sat their first year.

My original post was about Tua receiving so much scrutiny and stated my opinion the top two reasons I thought that was the case.

This is all water under the bridge as far as your plan of sitting Tua all season. There were pros and cons of doing this. Tua will be better in 2021 for the fact that he played in 2020. The coaches knew this. The coaches knew that even if they made the playoffs that the team was not going to contend seriously this year. They are following their plan. The fact that Fitz played better than Tua regarding stats and points scored is irrelevant as well. This was all about getting Tua time to play so he can hit ground running 2021. Tua has the high ceiling and Fitz hit his ceiling years ago. He is what he is.

this is about being all in on Tua and the process.