Should It Have Been Tremaine Edmunds And Dallas Goedert?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by JahnDho, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    With Miami’s 1st and 2nd picks they could have drafted Edmunds and Goedert. Were they correct in taking Fitzpatrick and Gessicki?

    We can come back to this mid and late season, but I’m curious what others think and how it goes.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy they have Fitzpatrick and Gessicki; they can be a great players for a long time. It will be a worthy argument going forward. However, I felt Miami needed LB more and the secondary would be great regardless. They certainly can be the best with Fitz; which is a beautiful thing, but great is good enough when there are glaring holes and weak spots elsewhere.

    But Edmunds at LB makes their LB group great too and makes them a top 8 defense. Adding Fitz still leaves me in doubt about their overall D. Certainly better at LB than last year with McMillan back; just not as good if it were Edmunds, McMillan, and Alonso. The secondary without Fitz is still a top 8 secondary. But the way it sits now, by combining a below avg DL, this D will be just barely above avg; like 13-15th best.

    At TE, Gessicki will have his growing pains. Again, a great TE to have, they filled a hole and I’m happy they grabbed one of the top TEs. However, Goedert brings similar receiving upside while also the better blocker and more NFL ready. I think goedert has a better career.

    Again, we’ll see what happens. Overall, Fitz and Gessicki will help this team. So don’t go off the deep end and call me dumb for not liking those two. I do, but my gut tells me Edmunds and Goedert were the better choices.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  2. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Personally I wanted Goedert more than any other player in the draft, thought he would have been amazing for us
     
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  3. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    Just Curious....how is Geodart more "NFL ready"? Yes, he looked great in college, but none of the guys he was working against will ever play in the NFL. He made plays against future high school coaches, accountants, and salesmen.
     
  4. HopaLong

    HopaLong Rookie

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    Can we let these players play even one preseason game before we start comparing them? At this point we have no way of knowing how any of this plays out. You could have made the same thread the day after the draft, and we wouldn't have any more perspective now than we did then.
     
  5. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 My f*ck ups be the perfect mistakes Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Minkah was the correct pick. He will prove that over and over throughout his Dolphins career.

    But Goedert IMO was the better TE. Gesicki is more athlete, Goedert just seems to do everything else better and is a good athlete in his own right.
     
  6. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Derek Jeter sits when he pees Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This will be debated numerous times over each players career up until they retire and **** prolly long after that too. It's an interesting question OP and I have to say I am happy we got Fitz but I really did think we were going to take goedart with our second round pick. Time will tell, I under estimated how athletic gesicki really is
     
  7. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Here we go again.....should we have drafted Rodgers instead of Ronnie Brown?
     
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  8. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

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    Fitzpatrick will be an all pro FS soon.

    Gesicki is the better receiver than Goebert. Gesicki has shown flashes of top TE in training camp. Let’s let it play out.

    Goebert jumped off the screen more, but not by much and it was against much inferior competition.
     
  9. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

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    Also OP a top FS makes more of a difference than an off the ball LB.

    I’ve said this since the draft process started. Out of all the top defensive prospects they I’ve seen play Clemson’s offense Edmunds was the least productive. He never did anything in game that made him mermorable, ever. Fitz did, Ramsey did, most of the entire Alabama defense for 3 years did. VT? No. Edmunds never made impact plays against them and it stook out for me when he was in our view.
     
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  10. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Should we have drafted Drew Brees at #26 instead of Jamar Fletcher? Or maybe traded our 2nd (Chris Chambers) and 3rd rounders (Travis Minor) to move up to get him?

    Brees instead of Fletcher, Chambers and Minor?

    Only time will tell I guess
     
  11. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Goedert is running with the 1st team in their 12 personnel and the ability to block gets you on the field sooner. By NFL ready, I’m refering to more playing time sooner than later.
     
  12. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Use foresight my friend
     
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  13. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    yes
     
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  14. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    OP wants to come back to this discussion mid season, I suppose to see which tandem would've helped the dolphins more this season.

    The dolphins aren't a contender this year IMO, so I prefer the longer term solutions. Goederrt is considered more NFL ready, but Gesicki appears to have an obscene ceiling(again thinking long term). And while Edmunds fills a hole this year, I think most agree that Fitzpatrick is a better overall prospect, having consistently gone tot 5 in tons of mocks.

    I'm critical of the dolphins, but not here. Love the picks
     
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  15. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree; should be debated for a long time. Gessicki was an off the charts SPARQ guy. Although it doesn’t always translate to NFL productivity.
     
  16. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Also, let's not forget the relative competition Goedert faced on the South Dakota State's schedule including juggernauts Montana St, Duquesne, Youngstown St, Missouri St and Drake vs Big 10 quality level opponents. It's like being defended against by future UPS drivers vs Ohio St LBs and CBs
     
  17. bakerbakerthetdmaker

    bakerbakerthetdmaker Banned Hammered

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    Shouldn't we see the players we DID pick play a season before stuff like this?
     
  18. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    How is he a better blocker? Not saying that he is not, but again he was working against very poor comp.

    Also coaches handle rookies differently. Adam Gase has always been a earn it guy with the rookies. Just his approach. Some coaches put those guys in day one. To each their own.
     
  19. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Not sure Goedert has similar receiving upside, Gesicki has insane upside, don't think any TE can match it from this draft. Also, I hear Goedert was whiffing on blocks early in camp so projecting anything at this point is tricky at best
     
  20. HopaLong

    HopaLong Rookie

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    Foresight? What foresight? Are you suggesting that every player is going to perform in the NFL exactly as they did in college? Because that's all that they can be judged on at the moment.
    If not, then you can't even begin to suggest that anybody would be able to have even an inkling of who should have been picked. Which means that the argument, and thus the thread, are a giant waste of everyones time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  21. BSQ

    BSQ Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Gesicki is already snagging bombs from Tannehill. He's making acrobatic one hand catches and he's wowing people. He is the classic seam threat that this team has lack for a long time. Fitz will be a Pro Bowl guy right from the start. This kid brings a whole lot more than just being great on game day. This kid is a born leader and just such a perfect guy to incorporate into the mix. Fitz likes to say, if we all do our jobs then everything runs smooth!

    BTW, we did draft an excellent LBer, Jerome Baker from Ohio State. When you see what this kid can do in tandem with his former teammate McMillan you might just be very happy. I think the Dolphin's got it right. Remember, Gase talks to Saban and I'm sure the message was get Minkah!!!!!!
     
  22. John813

    John813 Well-Known Member

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    I liked Dallas. Of course his competition was weaker compared to if he was in the SEC. I liked the comparison to Travis Kelce who also came from D2 ball and obviously is a damn good TE in the NFL.

    As of now, not going to be wondering if X was the right player taken or not. One of them may boom their first year and regress the second year onwards. Player Y may need more of a learning curve year one and then blossom year 2-3 onwards for 5 or so years.

    Unless Mike G. turns into Jon Martin it'll be hard to judge him early on.
     
  23. gunn34

    gunn34 Pro Bowler

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    Time will tell. I liked the Minkah pick and would have been happy with the LB too. I thought we were selecting Goedert for the 2nd pick and was a bit surprised when we selected a TE that wasn't him. I was hoping they knew something I didn't see.
     
  24. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    I think it should have been whatever we didn't do.
     
  25. Classic

    Classic Well-Known Member

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    Only father time has the answer to this question. We shall see
     
  26. superphin

    superphin don't go clown shoes on us Finheaven VIP

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    I mean if Fitz ends up being a HOF talent and Gisecki ends up being an everage TE and Goedert and Edmunds end up up being Pro Bowl caliber players I would pick Fitz & Gisecki.

    But it will be interesting to see how things play out during the season as I'm sure if Edmunds wins DROY and Goedert wins OROY we'll be up in arms about the incompetence of Gase and co.
     
  27. Fintastic17

    Fintastic17 A True Fan

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    Our first 2 picks were exactly who I was screaming at the TV for.

    I wouldn't have been unhappy with Dallas but I preferred Gesicki.
     
  28. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Watch film/highlights. The highlights aka upside, show Goedert with similar upside. I actually prefer the way Goedert plays and looks more fluid as a route runner and after the catch.
     
  29. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    What? That makes no sense.

    I’m suggesting foresight is used in projecting how a player will do in the NFL based on how their past performance translates to the NFL. The best scouts, coaches and GMs are really good at this.
     
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  30. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Saban is biased. Of course he’d say that. I don’t doubt Fitz will be great and Miami needs more guys like him. I also think the same about Edmunds. My point about it all is that the net effect on the defense is greater over the next 4-5 years with Edmunds.

    My other issue with drafting Fitz is his optimal position is slot CB. But Fins have McCain so will Fitz will be moved around like a chess piece? Fitz is very versatile too, can play many positions, but will he be as dominate at safety or outside CB in the NFL? If they plug him at either, will his complete game and upside get utilized?

    If not, then Fins are selling Fitz and themsleves short. Using 70 - 80% of the tools Fitz gives them isn’t ideal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  31. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

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    I’m happy with Fitz and Gesicki but would have been happier with Lamar Jackson in a trade down and still grabbing Gesicki.
     
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  32. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 My f*ck ups be the perfect mistakes Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yea I mean they have complete confidence in Ryan but I was really hoping Jackson was there in the 2nd for us.

    Good kid with loads of talent . . . .Ravens were wise to take the gamble on such a potential playmaker.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Each over each and both over both. Miami did it better.
     
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  34. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Edmunds is a better prospect than Fitzpatrick imo, but DB's are, in general, more valuable than LB's, so I get it.

    I was higher on Gesicki than Goedert, but Goedert is in a better situation. Philly really knows how to use its TE's, and the offense is ahead of the curve, so Goedert may outproduce Gesicki - particularly early in their careers.
     
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  35. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Interesting take cuz Goedert is probably the backup TE. That's why I was thinking Gesicki will outproduce him. But nobody will argue Goedert is on the better team. That offense is pretty dang good. My prediction would still be Gesicki will have a better statistical season, TDs in particular. Goedert would probably have more yards
     
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  36. AndyPhinfan

    AndyPhinfan Member

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    Why do you say Minkah's optimal position is slot corner? I disagree with that and want to see him spend the majority of his time at free safety where he can be utilised most effectively rather than the 70-80% of his ability that you state, which would more likely be the case at slot CB.

    Anyway the original question could really have been framed as "who were you hoping the dolphins would draft at the time" as I do agree that we don't really know any more now than we did then, however Minkah was precisely one place above Edmunds on my board, and Gesicki was one place above Goedart (and both right behind Hayden Hurst) so although I would still have been very happy with the alternative combination, I pretty much could not have been happier with those picks.
     
  37. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Good question, for starters it’s what he says is his optimal position. But it’s also the position he played at the most last year. I tend to believe his performance in 2017 has more to do with his draft stock than 2016 where he played outside CB. Early picks are judged on their most recent season performance and how that translates to the NFL. He was a stud all over the field but he believes slot CB gives him the best opportunity to utilize his CB/Safety skills. If Miami puts him at Safety or outside CB then they’re only using a portion of his skill set; thus his total value is being limited. If the case then Edmunds should have been the pick. They could use him at his best position.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sb.../minkah-fitzpatrick-dolphins-draft-alabama-db
     
  38. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    Without question Minkah was my selection at 11.

    However I am also positive at the time I would've taken Goedert in the second. That didn't temper my excitement much when I heard we had selected Gesicki. I instantly assured myself this staff thought Gesicki's freak abilities would translate to the NFL.

    I will say undoubtedly my bias as a die hard Ohio State living in Penn State country lead me towards preferring the small school guy (along with all his obvious talents). Ironic that Dallas Goedert ended up with the team in my back yard so I'll have to follow his career closely regardless now that he's an Eagle.
     
  39. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    I’m happy with both the Fitz and Gesicki pick. But I honestly thought they were going to go with Goedert at TE in the 2nd. Either way it was a TE that was needed.
     
  40. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I can't lie, Edmunds would have made our defense solid. I can't hate the Mink, but the safety position wasn't as bad as LBs. Even moreso now.
     

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