Simple Logic

[The Bopkin]

I also wonder, since I am not a scout, ...what is the difference between say Herbert and Eason? What's the point in giving up picks to trade up for Herbert if when you evaluate the two and do and side by side comparison the differences are minimal? I would love to see a real solid breakdown of how Love, Tua, Herbert Eason all compare, how they fit into the offense. We have beat theories to death on this site(In fairness, there is nothing else to discuss), but I would love for those knowledgeable scout types on this site to do a comparison of the major QB prospects, how they compare, and how they fit a spread offense.
Then I'd like to see the difference between them and say, Morgan out of FIU, a later round guy. Because none of them are starting next year anyway and we have a year to develop them safely. Then we can hash through those evals...at least it's something more than conspiracy theories about Burrow bagging on Cincy and is Tua's hip OK...

 

[Fin-Loco]

I don't think you can use the Pats situation as any form of argument against reaching for a QB. The Patriots lucked into Brady and took him late because they already had Bledsoe. No one knew he would turn out the way he did and end up being the greatest QB to have played the game. When you have that QB in place, you can easily draft later round QBs and see what happens.

You can look at successful moves ups for QBs as well...Mahomes, Watson...

I think most could easily argue the opposite that the team acquired picks so they could win and still have the ammo to move up for a QB.

What will happen, we don't know, but it is going to be fun to debate when they finally do make a decision.

Was just going to say the same thing. Love how Bellicick is viewed as some Nostradamus meanwhile he simply hyper lucked out with Brady. Brady was drafted just to be a backup to Bledsoe and probably be a camp body. BB wasn't sitting there with Doc Brown and Marty McFly knowing he was going to get them to 9 SBs or however many and waiting until the 6th round to get him like a psychopath.

 

[meatpardle]

instead they stock piled picks which brings me to the logic that THEY DON´T WANT TO REACH FOR A QB

No they stockpiled picks so that they could move up for a QB if needs be.

A QB is coming, whether it’s at 2, 3 or 5, just accept it and stop looking for elaborate explanations as to why it isn’t the plan.

 

[Mach2]

Why does losing out on let’s say 2 or 3 players stop us from building a team? We have all of free agency and a plethora of picks. If we give up let’s say a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That’s stopping us from filling other holes?

Its like people think we aren’t going to sign any fee agents worth a damn and in the draft we will only come away with one player, a qb. I mean What?!

I think you are reading more into my post than was actually said.

A top 10 QB can, indeed, cover up some deficiencies during the regular season, but to make deep playoff runs consistently, "papering" over holes doesn't work.

If you disagree, fine, but that was the extent of the post. I never said under no circumstances, trade up. Though in this particular spot, I'm not in favor of it. That has to do with the specific circumstances, not my overall philosophy.

Why do so many ppl conflate the two?

 

[Mach2]

No they stockpiled picks so that they could move up for a QB if needs be.

A QB is coming, whether it’s at 2, 3 or 5, just accept it and stop looking for elaborate explanations as to why it isn’t the plan.

I would say most likely #5, but yeah.

 

[1972forever]

Why does losing out on let’s say 2 or 3 players stop us from building a team? We have all of free agency and a plethora of picks. If we give up let’s say a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That’s stopping us from filling other holes?

Its like people think we aren’t going to sign any fee agents worth a damn and in the draft we will only come away with one player, a qb. I mean What?!

I think they will sign free agents but very few free agents ever turn out to make an impact on their new team. They are usually free agents because their old team didn’t think they were worth keeping for the money it would cost to resign them.
The Dolphins have had little success in signing free agents who helped this organization win more games.
The only way to win in the NFL is by being successful in the draft year after year. Thinking that free agents are going to come in and improve the team just doesn’t happen very often.

 

[Kamelion4291]

If Flores and Grier were comfortable trying to win every game as a priority then it´s pretty obvious to me that they are careless about a top 3 first round selection. instead they stock piled picks which brings me to the logic that THEY DON´T WANT TO REACH FOR A QB , if the guy they want is there at 5 they´ll take him, it´s just plain obvious, if it´s not they will immediately try to move down and get another additional pick. my bet is that they will continue the tendency adding lots of quality players in specific positions. why would they reach for a specific player with so many holes to fill, stay put or trade down is more likely to be the plan. In fact if you look at Belichick he never reaches for a QB, they took Brady in the 5th round, Garappolo, Hoyer and Mallet were there and they picked them none in the first round. With Chan Gailey in charge of the offense I´m pretty sure he wants to explore Rosen before any risky crazy moves.

Where's the logic?

 

[Travis34]

I think they will sign free agents but very few free agents ever turn out to make an impact on their new team. They are usually free agents because their old team didn’t think they were worth keeping for the money it would cost to resign them.
The Dolphins have had little success in signing free agents who helped this organization win more games.
The only way to win in the NFL is by being successful in the draft year after year. Thinking that free agents are going to come in and improve the team just doesn’t happen very often.

Thinking that drafting an extra OL or DL or DB is on the same spectrum as a franchise QB is.... questionable, but I know your stance on tua. so we donthave to do this.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I think they will sign free agents but very few free agents ever turn out to make an impact on their new team. They are usually free agents because their old team didn’t think they were worth keeping for the money it would cost to resign them.
The Dolphins have had little success in signing free agents who helped this organization win more games.
The only way to win in the NFL is by being successful in the draft year after year. Thinking that free agents are going to come in and improve the team just doesn’t happen very often.

Every team signs FAs, but I get your point. In Miami's case, a 30yrold+ wouldn't surprise me. I consider it a rental for 1-2 yrs til long-term answers can be found/developed

 

[realdolphin]

I don't think you can use the Pats situation as any form of argument against reaching for a QB. The Patriots lucked into Brady and took him late because they already had Bledsoe. No one knew he would turn out the way he did and end up being the greatest QB to have played the game. When you have that QB in place, you can easily draft later round QBs and see what happens.

You can look at successful moves ups for QBs as well...Mahomes, Watson...

I think most could easily argue the opposite that the team acquired picks so they could win and still have the ammo to move up for a QB.

What will happen, we don't know, but it is going to be fun to debate when they finally do make a decision.

Kansas had all the pieces together before they moved up for mahomes, that makes sense. it´s not miami´s case.

 

[dolfan91]

If Grier and Flores have embrased the New England way of navigating the draft, they'll continue to do what they've been able to do over the next 2 draft seasons. Grier went on record after the 2019 draft and stated he'd like to have a minimum of 10 selections every year moving forward. There's no guarantee Miami waits on a QB past 2020, but you never know. Ross seems to be on board, knowing full well it may be a few more years before they have any wins to show for it. This could mean anything, when a team stock piles picks. They could use them any way they see fit. Especially in a trade up scenario to secure a player that really like, perhaps a QB? Hopefully the rearranged or restructured scouting dept, pays dividends beginning in 2020. I like the thinking and in theory it builds for long term success.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Kansas had all the pieces together before they moved up for mahomes, that makes sense. it´s not miami´s case.

No they did not.

They still had a very shaky defense, but instead of filling those holes they went and got their guy and patch worked the defense together.

 

[Mach2]

No they did not.

They still had a very shaky defense, but instead of filling those holes they went and got their guy and patch worked the defense together.

Since 2015, they have 11, 12, 10, 12, 12 wins, and 4 straight division titles, with all 5 seasons resulting in a playoff berth. Mahomes put them over the top as an elite offense, but they were a very good team before he took over.

That predates Mahomes, and Ried has never been one to prioritize defense, so your statement would seem to be false.

Aside from that, even trying to argue that, as a team, the Phins as now constituted, are in any way comparable to KC over the last 5 years is ridiculous.

I'm not arguing your premise, that a great QB can make a huge difference, absolutely they do.

The specific example you are using, however, is laughable.

 

[Ferretsquig]

Many on this site WANT a certain player … they have good reasons … I agree with the OP for the most part … I don't think the FO and HC wants to reach for anything that's not as sure a bet as you can get …. I hope/believe they will let the draft come to them and work FA like they did the waiver wire and UDFA's by turning over the stones to continue building a solid base for the team …

The FO and HC are building a team for the long haul and have decided to not microwave the process but to put solid foundational pieces together … IMO ...
I have said it a few times and here it is again ...

Build the team ... the QB will follow

This isn't an attempt to pi$$ on anyone's parade ... just an opinion ... I would be happy if we land the QB of the future and I don't care what his name is or what round we land him ... hell for all we know he may already be on the roster ... but I like what's going on and don't believe a reach for one guy is necessary ...

I think the Ravens are the best example of the downside of that approach. Arguably one of the best team builders out there and hes completely at the mercy of his quarterback. When Flacco was on they were great.....the other 90% of the time it was a struggle. I know Flores has a long leash but hes not going to get the luxury of waiting around a decade to find the next Jackson.

The unfortunate reality is that if Flores hands the reigns to the next Flacco hes not going to make it.

 

[FSU Truth]

Kansas had all the pieces together before they moved up for mahomes, that makes sense. it´s not miami´s case.

They did, but they still made the move up. That was your original "logic" that teams should stay where they are and not reached. KC did have all the pieces in place and even had a QB, but they still moved up for a QB...they reached. Houston did the same thing...they moved up. Houston also was a middle of the road team, and saw and opportunity to get a QB.

The idea of waiting for Miami to have all the pieces in place and then trying to get a QB involves a lot of luck that you are just bad enough to be in a position to move up and enough teams miss on an evaluation of a QB that he falls to a place where you can move up. Personally, your team makeup should not matter, if you are in striking distance of a QB you feel strongly about, then you make the move. What is the saying, you either have a QB or you are trying to get one...Miami is trying to get one because we have **** all at that spot right now and we are in striking distance.

If you want to stay pat and take Herbert or Love, I can understand that argument...keep your picks and grab a QB you feel good about, but to pass on a QB all together to get one extra position player when you already have 13 plus picks this year and most like 10 picks next year is an exercise in futility.