Slimm's 2015 Defensive Tackles

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Slimm, could I get your thoughts on Marcus Hardison?

Curious whether he's not on any of these lists because he just kind of slipped through the cracks, or if there's something I don't know.

He was a 4-star JUCO transfer prospect out of Dodge City and his HUDL tape fits that billing. He went to Arizona State and couldn't get playing time behind the likes of Carl Bradford, Will Sutton and Davon Coleman, all of them NFL players. Plus there was Gannon Conway who was a senior.

But he played this year and he's got 15.0 TFLs, 10.0 Sacks and even 2 INTs.

And looking at his tape...yikes. This is a 6'4" and 300 lbs guy who can play end and runs a 4.7 forty. Explosive as hell. It's like watching Jason Pierre-Paul all over again. I'm sure he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. He went to my high school alma mater, after all. But this is some ridiculous physical potential...at a position that seems particularly leveraged toward physical potential. And it's not like he didn't produce. His production in 2014 stacks up with anyone's. Especially as he played a closed end type of position.

Well, I'm old enough to vividly remember Jackie Shipp when he played at Oklahoma and when Miami drafted him in the 1st round in 1984. He came to Alabama in 1998 as our defensive line coach for one season. He coached a 6'4", 300 pound defensive line freak that year for us by the name of Kenny Smith. Smith was extremely versatile along the defensive front, and had rare explosiveness and athleticism for a kid that size. He ended up being drafted in the 3rd round and had a very non descript NFL career due to lack of a very significant football IQ. Smith was a late bloomer, and Shipp was able to get the most out of him.

Ironically, Jackie Shipp is Arizona St.'s defensive line coach, and Hardison reminds me a lot of Kenny Smith with everything I just said. His versatility and athleticism is what really stands out. He's almost identical to Kenny Smith in terms of size, versatility, and explosiveness. Also being a late bloomer.

He wasn't on my list heading into the season because he barely played last year at all, and never stood out at all. Guys like Will Sutton were always to busy stealing the show for ASU's defensive line last year. Honestly, I'm a little bit leary of Hardison as anything higher than a 150 pick overall. Beyond that he's probably worth a gamble. He's a one year wonder obviously, but his journey to this point as you pointed out, leaves you questioning both his intelligence, and how important football every really was to him.

Physically he's not lacking anything. You might even say he possesses somewhat rare tools and traits. His technique has improved a lot since last year. But I'm always a little leary of ASU defensive lineman with gaudy stats. They have a lot of freedom in that scheme. In other words, not a lot of responsibility.... just a lot of freedom to make plays if they're quick enough. On the field, I don't a see a kid with a very high football IQ in Marcus Hardison, and I'd be a little concerned about that if I'm wagering a draft pick on him. I'm not sold on his hustle, instincts, or anything that would make me believe he's going to work harder once he's earning an NFL paycheck.

There's quite a few DT's that I'd be more inclined to take a shot on later, I just wish some of 'em had his size and natural gifts.

 

[KillerB]

Were any of you surprised that Danny Shelton's arms were only 31-3/4"? That seems short to me for a DT. By comparison, Carl Davis from Iowa had 34-1/2" arms. I know arm length isn't as important for DT as it is for OT, where wingspan helps with blocking pass-rushers. But it is still important for a DT to have decent arm length to get into an O-lineman's chest and battle for leverage.

 

[finfan54]

Ok, I have seen new boards on draft sites and this kid from Oklahoma is coming into the fray. Jordan Phillips. 6'6" 334 lb.

And it wasnt just one board but multiple have him coming out of nowhere like Malcolm Brown weeks ago as a 1-2 rounder. What gives? All of a sudden teams must be talking these guys up.

Xavier Cooper is coming up bigtime too.

 

[Roman529]

Were any of you surprised that Danny Shelton's arms were only 31-3/4"? That seems short to me for a DT. By comparison, Carl Davis from Iowa had 34-1/2" arms. I know arm length isn't as important for DT as it is for OT, where wingspan helps with blocking pass-rushers. But it is still important for a DT to have decent arm length to get into an O-lineman's chest and battle for leverage.

Yeah but Shelton is pushing 340 pounds and he seems to move rather nimbly for a guy with that much weight. Warren Sapp also had stubby alligator arms but he got it done. I think Shelton will be a beast.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Ok, I have seen new boards on draft sites and this kid from Oklahoma is coming into the fray. Jordan Phillips. 6'6" 334 lb.

And it wasnt just one board but multiple have him coming out of nowhere like Malcolm Brown weeks ago as a 1-2 rounder. What gives? All of a sudden teams must be talking these guys up.

Xavier Cooper is coming up bigtime too.

After L. Williams, I have Cooper as the best DT prospect. Natural athlete, explodes off the ball, looks like he'll run in the 4.8's at around 300 lbs.

 

[I am Bane]

Xavier Cooper knows his role, very patient and has good knowledge of the position. He takes great angles, and flows well with the ball, and read plays very well. Seems to be a great team defensive player. He seems to have an all out hustle as well. Some problems is he doesnt use his hands overly well and he plays VERY high. He also doesnt fire off the line overly well.

Jordan Phillips is a BIG MAN, and can fill the middle taking on doubles very well. He can definitely free up LBs. He fires off the ball well, but he uses his size more than anything else. He can make plays in the backfield, but he is more of a filler unless he can get through the gaps and apply pressure against the pass. He only really played one full season, after having back surgery in 2013 where he played only 4 games in his 4 years at Oklahoma, but yes he played all year this past season 2014.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Xavier Cooper knows his role, very patient and has good knowledge of the position. He takes great angles, and flows well with the ball, and read plays very well. Seems to be a great team defensive player. He seems to have an all out hustle as well. Some problems is he doesnt use his hands overly well and he plays VERY high. He also doesnt fire off the line overly well.

Jordan Phillips is a BIG MAN, and can fill the middle taking on doubles very well. He can definitely free up LBs. He fires off the ball well, but he uses his size more than anything else. He can make plays in the backfield, but he is more of a filler unless he can get through the gaps and apply pressure against the pass. He only really played one full season, after having back surgery in 2013 where he played only 4 games in his 4 years at Oklahoma, but yes he played all year this past season 2014.

I've heard this, but I don't agree with it. Did you see the Oregon game this season? One of the most disruptive games from a defender that I've seen all season - instant penetration all game. I think he'll run in the 4.8's.

 

[I am Bane]

I've heard this, but I don't agree with it. Did you see the Oregon game this season? One of the most disruptive games from a defender that I've seen all season - instant penetration all game. I think he'll run in the 4.8's.

yes i did, and i just watched a lot of film on it to refresh as well. I agree he was in the backfield a lot disrupting. But I stick with my analysis still... he does tend to paly very high and doesnt fire off the line consistently strong. He was going against a back up RT that he basically destroyed eary with simple rip moves on pass rushes, and since Fisher was out their starting RT moved to left, and he is a freshman.

but to go back to the game he played incredible. Once again he is so smart, and reads plays quick, taking great angles on blocks and flowing wit the ball. He will help any team defense against the run. He seems to be always hustling and playing hard until the end of the play too. In this game he did fire the gaps low, splitting the 3 and making a great sack almost for a safety. Was very nice. but all in all, he doesnt fire off the line and use his hands overly wel yet, like you see from many others in the NFL or coming out of college (Carl Davis).

I like what Xavier brings, and what he does... just has things to work on... nobodys perfect.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/xavier-cooper-vs-oregon-2014/

Check the link above... great game footage on him.... watch the Stanford game too where he faced Andrus Peat who is going to be a top pick out of the draft and a definite starter in the NFL... Peat for the most part controlled Xavier, got his hands into his chest, and down blocked him well easily. Xavier Cooper held his own often, making some plays and holding his area decently though. But it shows how high he plays, and the lack of fire off the line.

 

[finfan54]

Isnt Cooper a 3-4 DE type? He can play DT but his highlight reel of great plays came from DE spot it seemed.

 

[I am Bane]

Isnt Cooper a 3-4 DE type? He can play DT but his highlight reel of great plays came from DE spot it seemed.

He can play either in my opinion... maybe more of a play maker out of a 3-4 as you said... but I love what he brings as a DT in a 4-3 as well, and definitely think he can make plays from there in the NFL from there, like he did in college... once again the knowledge, angles and how well he reads is a great team defensive player needed in that system!!!

he basically had the opportunity to play both style positions in college as well

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I

ULL has a very interesting DL situation in that I can sit down and watch the film trying to focus on Christian Ringo and my eyes will keep getting drawn to Justin Hamilton, then I can sit and try and watch Justin Hamilton and my eyes get drawn to Christian Ringo.

I can see why Hamilton should be rated higher. Bigger guy, very impressive movement skills for that size. But I can't dismiss Ringo as just another Darrington Sentimore or the like. He packs too much sh-t in his hands for that to be the case. He's just too powerful, too good at shedding blocks. I just wish he didn't end up on the carpet so often, kind of like Brian Price that way.

I'd say Ringo compares a little more with Marvin Austin, Darrington Sentimore or Glenn Dorsey as opposed to Aaron Donald. It will be interesting to see him move up in class. He's got a heck of a temperament.

Ringo is a guy I've been very high on for a while. Great burst, good hands, a variety of moves, finds the football, determined, big TFL and sack numbers against some good teams. Not the biggest guy, but in the Atkins/Donald role on the interior, he could do some damage. Very powerful for his size.