Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (underclassman)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 1, 2018.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. Jake Bentley / S. Carolina / 6'3", 220

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    2. Brian Lewerke / Michigan St. / 6'3", 212

    3. Shea Patterson / Michigan / 6'2", 203

    4. Justin Herbert / Oregon / 6'6", 225

    5. Daniel Jones / Duke / 6'5", 215

    [​IMG]


    6. Alex Thomson / Marshall / 6'5", 220

    7. K.J. Costello / Stanford / 6'5", 217

    8. Tyree Jackson / Buffalo / 6'7", 245

    9. Josh Jackson** / Virginia Tech / 6'1", 215

    10. Elijah Sindelar / Purdue / 6'4", 230

    11. Deondre Francois / Florida St. / 6'1", 200

    12. Jon Wassink / W. Michigan / 6'2", 205

    13. Alex Hornibrook / Wisconsin / 6'4", 215

    14. Shane Buechele / Texas / 6'1", 205

    15. Caleb Evans / UL-Monroe / 6'2", 210

    16. Steven Montez / Colorado / 6'5", 225

    17. Nathan Stanley / Iowa / 6'5", 212

    18. McKenzie Milton / UCF / 5'11", 185





    Athlete:

    1. Armani Rogers** / UNLV / 6'5", 225 (I watched Randall Cunningham at UNLV, this kid has that type of skillset if he continues to develop as a passer)

    2. Khalil Tate / Arizona / 6'2", 215

    [​IMG]


    3. D'Eriq King / Houston / 5'11", 190
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I like where you've got Tyree Jackson, for now.

    I may be more high on Drew Anderson but it's tough to deny when watching the tape that Tyree COULD become a very compelling player, down the road. His throwing and accuracy especially on the deep ball are very good, and he's making valid decisions and reads within that offense.

    Fast forward one year and if he continues to grow at the pace he did through 2017 from before the injury to after he returned, suddenly you may be looking at a 6'6" & 245 lbs quarterback that runs in the 4.6's or some such, has a cannon arm, good accuracy, working in a well diversified offense that mixes pro and spread concepts, well coached by people that have proven to be able to develop quarterbacks, with three years of starting experience under his belt. And all indications are he's a fantastic person, too.
     
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  3. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    I want to see what Shea Patterson can do in Harbaughs offense. He’s the one I want to see in a Dolphins uni.
     
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  4. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

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    If Jake Bently is the best underclassmen then man that qb class is terrible.
     
  5. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    It's definitely not as good as the 2018 underclassman QB class. But if I remember correctly, you didn't think much about that one either.

    Apparently no quarterback class is good anymore unless it has Deshaun Watson or Trevor Lawrence in it.
     
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  6. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Some evaluators will prefer Justin Herbert as the top underclassman because of his size and dual threat ability. The problem with Herbert is durability due to his style of play, and an extremely elongated delivery.

    Others will prefer Shea Patterson as the top underclassman. I grade Patterson a little higher than Herbert, but again there's durability issues and he's smaller. The offense didn't miss a beat and actually became more efficient and explosive when Jordan Ta'amu took over for Patterson.

    At this point, Jake Bentley is the least flawed. What I like about Bentley is he was starting games on the road in the SEC as a true freshman when he was supposed to be a senior in high school. Bentley is an extremely intelligent and mature kid for his age. Very solid fundamentally.

    He's the key to South Carolina being a real contender in the SEC East. He had to keep SC afloat last year without two of his most talented weapons in Deebo Samuel and Rico Dowdle.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'm sold on Jake Bentley as the best candidate to end up QB1 in next year's class, personally. You never know what's going to happen, it being early and all, but I'd put him as the chalk leader.

    You mentioned it already, skipping his senior year of high school and then being thrust into the starting role as a freshman, yet he handled himself like a professional and threw some haymakers against those tough SEC defenses in 2016.

    But before you even go there I look at his throw process above the waist and it reminds me of Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, just so consistent and replicable. I love his follow through. I love how over top his delivery is. The feet can get better; personally I thought I detected a few occasions where his feet widen out a little too much. But what I really love is to watch his feet and let them tell me where his eyes are progressing. It's why he is so good in the pocket. He's working his feet with his reads, and his passing lanes, and making it all look pretty natural like he's been doing it this way for a long time. There's Josh Rosen in there (the good parts) but you also have to recognize he's got a lot more escapability and athletic play-making ability than Rosen had. I love the way he protects himself, physically.

    The guy seems like he's managing absolute chaos back there. I like contrasting it with Drew Anderson because Drew makes everything look so incredibly easy back there. That can be good and bad. Playing QB in the NFL isn't easy. It is chaos. When I watch Jake Bentley play, he's a manager of the total chaos around him. It gets the better of him, sometimes, but he's managing through it and making big throws, getting an offense up and down the field. Drew Anderson looks like he's conducting a symphony out there, which makes me wonder how it's going to look when things get a lot more challenging. There was an element of that with Brandon Weeden, who ended up being a mistake.

    For me the story of Jake Bentley boils down to all of that:

    1. Poise from an early age
    2. Manager of chaos
    3. Infinitely replicable throw process
    4. Pocket management
    5. Athletic ability

    I think it's fair to wonder about Shea Patterson and what he will become but right now he strikes me as just so wild and hurried. Forgetting the results, which were pretty inconsistent, his look gives him the feel of inconsistency. There's some Chris Streveler there, both good and bad. This is a guy you want to keep an eye on, but who you need to see make a lot more progress before putting a pin on him.

    I think Jake Bentley is already a guy you put a pin on.
     
  8. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    Where do you guys put Jarrett Stidham from Auburn on here? I think he’s prob the one to watch this year.
     
  9. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    I rank him #9 among Senior quarterbacks. Biggest issue I see with Stidham is he falls apart under pressure. Doesn't deal with it well at all. Entirely different player when he has to deal with pass rush pressure.
     
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  10. mrbunglez

    mrbunglez Reading Is Fundamental Donator

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    Isn’t he only a junior this year?
     
  11. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Redshirt Junior. Meaning he has 2 years to play 2...barring any special situation where he would have to petition for a 6th year of eligibility.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Khalil Tate is a guy that we're going to be talking about more and more as we go forward with the QBs, I think.

    He's a clone of Donovan McNabb, biggest difference being he doesn't play in the same system Syracuse did and thus he won't be coming in with the same advantages.

    But the way he uses his remarkable athleticism as a means of slowing the game down, keeping everything around him calm so that he can use his eyes, his mind, and his arm, that's what reminds me of McNabb. There's a grace in the athleticism. And the bottom line is, kid can throw the football.

    Purdue had a good defense and he set a bowl record with 5 touchdown passes against them, just barely falling short in a comeback.

    When I see Khalil Tate make a mistake in his decision making, throw a pick, etc...I think they tend to be perfect examples that go along with Slimm's big diatribe about how people get their panties in a twist about interceptions far too easily. Tate's trying to make plays out there. I can tell you off the top of my head that 3 of his 9 interceptions did not involve mid-ID'ing a defense or anything like that, just him trying to make a play and being a bit too aggressive.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Speaking of Purdue though, Elijah Sindelar is a very nice looking talent.

    He had to handle a very strange coaching decision where Jeff Brohm (who is an excellent coach and far be it for me to criticize him) decided they would rotate Sindelar and Blough in the 1st and 2nd quarters, and then ride the hot hand in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

    Eventually, fresh off two bad performances in the rotation setup against Wisconsin and Rutgers, Jeff Brohm decided to bench Sindelar and play David Blough almost exclusively against Nebraska and Illinois. But then a severe injury to Blough's right leg opened the door to Sindelar to play against Northwestern.

    He threw for nearly 400 yards in that Northwestern game, but he tore his ACL.

    And he continued to PLAY ON IT for three more games!

    Talk about toughness. This is a dude that knows how to push through adversity.

    They won all three games Sindelar played on the torn ACL. They beat Iowa, Indiana, and won the shootout with Arizona in the bowl game.

    Elijah Sindelar threw 9 touchdown passes and only 1 interception in those games. His total figures post-benching were 109 of 181 for 1,192 yards, 12 TDs, 2 INTs, with 12 sacks or -83 yards, and actually 7 runs for 14 yards (on a torn ACL).

    When you watch him play, he pops at you right away because of the snap in his hips and the way the ball flies out of his hands with a nice over the top delivery from a BIG 6'4" kid.

    Kind of crazy to think about how playing with a torn ACL in his plant leg may have actually helped him become a better quarterback. He certainly wasn't about to lock his front leg anymore, and he had to make sure he stayed balanced in everything he did. By the time Sindelar got to the bowl game with that torn ACL, I don't think he's ever looked as good throwing the football as he did in that game.

    The two quarterbacks I saw in that Foster Farms Bowl Game...looked like two professional talents battling it out in an all-timer.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    You've got to watch Sindelar's performance against Minnesota (he actually had a good game) and then fast-forward to the bowl game against Arizona.

    In the former he's got healthy knees and in the latter he's got a torn ACL in his plant leg, but he's had 6 weeks to re-configure his mechanics to compensate. The mechanics are very much different.

    There were a few times he locked his front leg against Minnesota. His follow-through was not good back then, often finishing with his shoulders and/or his weight back. He didn't keep balance when he was throwing from different platforms. Go to the Arizona game and he's always balanced, smoother, good knee bend, with better upright posture and shoulders forward on the follow-through.

    So much better at protecting himself, too.

    I just find it fascinating that a guy's torn ACL actually seemed to cure some of his mechanical ills and make him a better passer.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  15. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Slimm, CK.. how would you describe Tyree Jackson's weight transfer/lower body mechanics? I'm trying to articulate it as if I were writing a report. I watched this game against Minnesota.



    He throws from a wide base but it seems that his weight transfer takes a really long time. Is he overstriding with his front foot? Something also appears to be off once he transfers from back to front. In his follow through it seems like he lifts his back leg too high off the ground. I'm struggling to put this into words and describe the traits/mechanical aspect of it. But hhis lower body mechanics do not resemble any current NFL QB in my memory bank. What's going on with him? What is it that I'm seeing but struggling to put into words?
     
  16. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Little bit of overstride, which results in a follow through that looks a lot like a pitcher coming off the mound with all his weight going towards home plate.

    Overstriding is more of a symptom, and an end result than a cause. Footwork is what starts the chain reaction.

    He doesn't always get his lead toe pointed at the target. A lot of times his lead foot is planted perpendicular to the target, which causes the over rotation of the shoulders because his left hip can't clear, causing him to have to lift his back leg so high, which causes a loss of neutral spine angle...which causes an off balance follow through.

    When he gets his lead toe pointed at the target, he typically makes a much more accurate throw and has better balance.

    Footwork dominates everything you do in any position in any sport. His needs work.
     
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  17. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

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    We’ll be talking about Joey Burrow now that he’s transferred to LSU. I’d also be willing to bet both Burrows and Dywane Haskins will be eventual first round picks. Meyer was in love with JT Barrett and there was never an open competition. Both Burrows and Haskins are special football players.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 7:20 PM
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Just as a general observation, he's prone to sleepy feet. That's the danger with the tall guys. He doesn't seem to want to ever point his toe when he's throwing left, though he does a much better job of it when he's throwing right or particularly right hash. You'll notice the proportion of him getting his feet in order is higher when he's throwing right than throwing left. The more obtuse or acute the throw, the more he's prone to getting the feet wrong.

    But you have to keep in mind you're trying to nail a moving target, not a stationary one. Fast forward to his time after the knee injury, after watching Drew Anderson light it up in that offense as a pocket passer. He had been running the football 9 or 10 times per four quarters prior to injury. After the injury I think he ran twice in four games. No more huffing and puffing as he gets everyone lined up.

    He had a lot more care with his footwork by the Ohio game than he did the Minnesota game. By then he's double tapping his lead foot to get his toe out front even when he's throwing left. He's conscious of the toe. You can tell. Before it wasn't even something he thought about. You can see more jitter and stutter in his feet from the backfield as he's scanning the field, as that neural connection between his feet and his eyes starts coming along more and more. He's not there yet, but it's coming.

    He's just got to stay on top of all that because you can tell there are times when the chaos around him in the pocket pulls his focus away from the feet, and then he's back to just trying to get the football out mode.

    Sometimes sitting and watching another guy do it can be the best thing for you and that certainly appeared to be the case for Tyree Jackson. He's now on the right track, developing the right way, and I think it's pretty exciting for him as a prospect.

    I'm really not too worried about the feet, the follow through, the weight transfer, etc. That stuff is getting better and the trajectory is on target. I'm more worried about the information processing, hesitation, tendency to get stuck on something, and the way he moves within the pocket. Those are the things he needs to ramp up most fiercely to be where he wants to be.
     
  19. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Da Dalphins

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    Yea. For being a guy that can run, hes got some concrete in his shoes. You seem sometimes when he plants that back foot and reads the field, that back foot will not continue to work. I see Rivers do this quite a bit. Why Rivers throws from so many awkward positions.
     

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