So you want to draft a WR in the 1st round eh? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So you want to draft a WR in the 1st round eh?

Boomer,

What was your opinion of Charles Rodgers from MSU in 2003?
My opinion he wasn't mentally focused enough to succeed.
 
BlueFin said:
Let me ask you a serious question if I may?, I haven't followed the pro days very closely but you keep saying Holmes is faster than Jackson, yet I remember hearing that Jackson was the fastest receiver at the Combine, did Holmes not run at the combine? Are you referring to Holmes pro day workout? If so, could the differences in running surfaces make a difference when comparing their speed?
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Holmes did not run at the combine. His time at his pro day was not faster than Jackson's combine time.

NFL.com said:
There were five head coaches present -- Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher, Chicago's Lovie Smith, Detroit's Rod Marinelli, Cleveland's Romeo Crennel and the Giants' Tom Coughlin -- and about 100 team scouts and representatives. The players ran outdoors on a strip of extremely fast AstroTurf that has been down there for some years.
Santonio Holmes, WR
Holmes weighed 179 pounds -- nine less than he did at the Combine -- and he was timed at 4.34 and 4.36 in the 40. He also ran 4.26 in the short shuttle and 6.83 in the cone drill and had a 38-inch vertical jump and 10-foot-6 broad jump.
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Motion said:
Holmes did not run at the combine. His time at his pro day was faster than Jackson's but was also supposedly on a very fast track.
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So, do we really know for sure Holmes is faster?

I mean, as fast as both of these guys are it really probably doesn't make much difference, but since it was brought up I was curious.
 
BlueFin said:
So, do we really know for sure Holmes is faster?

I mean, as fast as both of these guys are it really probably doesn't make much difference, but since it was brought up I was curious.
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Its so close that it really doesn't matter IMO. Holmes was apparently sick at his pro day and has since gained about 10 pounds.
 
Its tough but I would go with Holmes over Jackson. While both look good Holmes is more polished Wr. Plus I think Mia needs a WR like him that can take it the Distance on 5-10 yard cathes because his run after the catch ability. While Jackson has comparable striat line speed he is no where close when it comes to acceleration and quickness. I think u saw that last year in the NFL these small quick WR's did great. I think it is because they are breaking down on CB's bumping so much. Instead of being able to bump these guys a little to keep up with them they are going right by the CB's. Rember the Panthers game are CB's did not have the speed to stay with Smith and he just killed us. Also Bills Evens did the same, plus Bucs Galloway. The small fast and quick Wr's killed us last year.
 
Motion said:
Its so close that it really doesn't matter IMO. Holmes was apparently sick at his pro day and has since gained about 10 pounds.
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But thats just Straight line Speed Holmes will play faster because he is Quicker and loses less speed on breaks then Jackson. But jackson will have the advantage in the Red zone.
But for Mia I like holmes cause we have Chambers who is already good on Red zone fades and junp balls. I want that shifty slot Wr that turns a 5 yard slaint into a 80 yard TD. While chambers has great speed he don't has those shifty moves to do that very often. Neither does Jackson.
 
dan the fin said:
But thats just Straight line Speed Holmes will play faster because he is Quicker and loses less speed on breaks then Jackson. But jackson will have the advantage in the Red zone.
But for Mia I like holmes cause we have Chambers who is already good on Red zone fades and junp balls. I want that shifty slot Wr that turns a 5 yard slaint into a 80 yard TD. While chambers has great speed he don't has those shifty moves to do that very often. Neither does Jackson.
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:clap: Excellent post.
 
I agree with Boomer on Jackson and Holmes. However it is irrelevent because we will take Jimmy Williams Donte Whitner or a LB, and hopefully it isnt Greenway
 
Disgustipate said:
I dont want to draft a WR myself, but I dont understand what this shows. Alot of first round players fail to live up to expectations at every position. I've yet to see anything that suggests 1st round WRs bust at a higher rate then any other position.
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I think the position itself overall is overrated as far as value goes. These are the types who have issues or mouths. Some know how to handle both but it still took them a couple of years to develope. WR's to me have the most possibility of something wrong happening.

If we were to draft a WR I would want the kid from Central Florida.
 
BlueFin said:
Well I accept your apology and I apologize as well if you took that comment as being directed towards you, it was intended as a general comment.

Let me ask you a serious question if I may?, I haven't followed the pro days very closely but you keep saying Holmes is faster than Jackson, yet I remember hearing that Jackson was the fastest receiver at the Combine, did Holmes not run at the combine? Are you referring to Holmes pro day workout? If so, could the differences in running surfaces make a difference when comparing their speed?
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Good question. Santonio didn't run at the Combine. NFL.com has him at 4.34 at the OSU Pro Day, but I know a handful of teams had him at 4.29. But if you look at the OSU players - Mangold, Hawk - their times were down around a 10th of a second, whereas the Florida players were slightly less so. But then the athletes that OSU has, when compared to the Gator guys maybe balances it out some.

Personally I think it should be MANDATORY that everyone works out in Indianapolis. If they want to improve their time at the Pro Day then fine, but lets all get on one surface and all run on the same track so you can chuck out the 'faster surface' mentality.

It's splitting hairs as to who's faster. You're talking minute fractions of seconds.
 
Boomer said:
Good question. Santonio didn't run at the Combine. NFL.com has him at 4.34 at the OSU Pro Day, but I know a handful of teams had him at 4.29. But if you look at the OSU players - Mangold, Hawk - their times were down around a 10th of a second, whereas the Florida players were slightly less so. But then the athletes that OSU has, when compared to the Gator guys maybe balances it out some.

Personally I think it should be MANDATORY that everyone works out in Indianapolis. If they want to improve their time at the Pro Day then fine, but lets all get on one surface and all run on the same track so you can chuck out the 'faster surface' mentality.

It's splitting hairs as to who's faster. You're talking minute fractions of seconds.
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How do you make it mandatory?? Not like I don't understand and appreciate the reasoning in wanting to do so.....but how do you think that you could enforce it??

Look at LenDale White....didn't run at pro day because he 'tweaked' his hammy.....anyone at the combine could pull the same stunt. So what happens when a player refuses? He's not draft eligible? Think the NFLPA would have something to say about that?

Teams could try to take a hard-line approach, but they would just be hurting themselves in the long run....letting obviously talented players past them, who then wind up with the competition.

Just isn't practical, which is why we haven't seen it.
 
Another issue with Jackson is the comfortable way with which Chad Greenway covered him in the Bowl Game. Yes Chad is a very solid cover linebacker, but still.....
 
burger13 said:
How do you make it mandatory?? Not like I don't understand and appreciate the reasoning in wanting to do so.....but how do you think that you could enforce it??

Look at LenDale White....didn't run at pro day because he 'tweaked' his hammy.....anyone at the combine could pull the same stunt. So what happens when a player refuses? He's not draft eligible? Think the NFLPA would have something to say about that?

Teams could try to take a hard-line approach, but they would just be hurting themselves in the long run....letting obviously talented players past them, who then wind up with the competition.

Just isn't practical, which is why we haven't seen it.
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You make solid points and I'm sure the NFLPA would have an issue, but then you enforce a rule that says a player must run at Indianapolis before running at a University Pro Day. Thus, you give the players that don't run 2 weeks or a month and then you return to Indianapolis. Pain in the asss for those who are stunt pulling, which makes it sort of pointless doing it in the first place. If they don't do it at all, then of course they're draft eligible, but think of the detrimental effect on their stock.
 
Boomer said:
Another issue with Jackson is the comfortable way with which Chad Greenway covered him in the Bowl Game. Yes Chad is a very solid cover linebacker, but still.....
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Neither one of them showed up for that game, I heard Greenway's name maybe twice and the one time was for the questionable offsides call at the end.
 
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