Some Game Observations
- Thread starter PhinKev
- Start date
Rick 1966
Professional Hipshooter
Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
Then you're wrong. There are many other QBs in the league who could do it. Look at Tim Couch tonight: the Steelers have totally shut down the Browns' running game as of now, and he is still passing all over them.
One of us doesn't understand our offense, but I don't believe it is I.
Then you're wrong. There are many other QBs in the league who could do it. Look at Tim Couch tonight: the Steelers have totally shut down the Browns' running game as of now, and he is still passing all over them.
One of us doesn't understand our offense, but I don't believe it is I.
scotgif
Seasoned Veteran
This is exactly what every team will try to do to us the remainder of the year. Stack 8 guys in the box to take RW out of the game, and force JF to CONSISTENTLY make plays to back them off the LOS.
Right now Fiedler is incapable of threatining defensed deep, so they know that they can stack the LOS, and not worry too much about getting beat for long gainers. It just doesn't happen.
Yes, it is a win. Yes, it is a win on the road. But this team has a lot of work to do, especially on the Oline, and the passing game, to bve a serious post-season threat IMO.
Anyone who just looks at it as a win, and refuses to see the problems on this team, is just plain not looking at the facts.
Right now Fiedler is incapable of threatining defensed deep, so they know that they can stack the LOS, and not worry too much about getting beat for long gainers. It just doesn't happen.
Yes, it is a win. Yes, it is a win on the road. But this team has a lot of work to do, especially on the Oline, and the passing game, to bve a serious post-season threat IMO.
Anyone who just looks at it as a win, and refuses to see the problems on this team, is just plain not looking at the facts.
Baz
Ephemeral
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
Wow, you've found the fool-proof arguement: you're wrong. How can I argue against such genius?
Before you accuse me of not knowing my offenses, just realize I play defense for the UNM Lobos, and it is my JOB as a safety to recognize and understand defenses. I know what I'm talking about.
The Browns offense doesn't live and die by the playaction pass like ours does. Because of that, they can have their runnning game shut down, and still be able to pass because their offense is built to do that. So you are right about one of us not understanding our offenses......
Wow, you've found the fool-proof arguement: you're wrong. How can I argue against such genius?
Before you accuse me of not knowing my offenses, just realize I play defense for the UNM Lobos, and it is my JOB as a safety to recognize and understand defenses. I know what I'm talking about.
The Browns offense doesn't live and die by the playaction pass like ours does. Because of that, they can have their runnning game shut down, and still be able to pass because their offense is built to do that. So you are right about one of us not understanding our offenses......
PhinKev
Pro Bowler
I'm not sure I'd agree with you there. While they did stunt from time to time, they didn't do a lot more than simply out physical the O-line. When they stunted, or blitzed we were overwhelmed, but they didn't need to do it much of the time.
I was particularly unhappy with the Center/Guard play. I'm not sure if McKinney is to blame, but he was gettting no movement at all. I can't remember Ruddy having two QB sneaks stuffed like that. I'm not real concerned with leadership, but you can't get whipped like that.
I'm going to assume Nails is not healthy. If I don't then I'd have to concede he lost it.
ChrisKo
FinHeaven VIP
It didn't look like Jay took the deep shots in this game. I looked like they wanted to playt he short game and try to get YAC like Jay stated in the media during the week.
He was sporadic and threw far too many balls high. He needs to settle down a bit and get comfortable throwing the ball. Maybe we should have given him a few screens to Ricky or Konrad early to get him going. I think he also needs to learn to dump the ball to McMichael more. There's plenty of times I see where McMichael could get us a 5-6 yrd. gain, but Jay overlooks him. It could also be the TV coverage and McMichael is really covered by the LBs, but it doesn't look that way to me.
I'm glad we pulled this win out, but I also know that Jay can and will play much better. Hopefully soon and he can do it all the way this season.
He was sporadic and threw far too many balls high. He needs to settle down a bit and get comfortable throwing the ball. Maybe we should have given him a few screens to Ricky or Konrad early to get him going. I think he also needs to learn to dump the ball to McMichael more. There's plenty of times I see where McMichael could get us a 5-6 yrd. gain, but Jay overlooks him. It could also be the TV coverage and McMichael is really covered by the LBs, but it doesn't look that way to me.
I'm glad we pulled this win out, but I also know that Jay can and will play much better. Hopefully soon and he can do it all the way this season.
juniorseau55
Go Fins
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
You just don't get it do you? Like always bazinet, Rikwriter is right and everyone is wrong.
I don't see what kind of logic you are trying to apply. It's obvious that every game situation is different and the game against the giants was different. Not only were the giants real agressive up front, but they were playing agressive on the air as well. We had a couple of our receivers drop balls all over the field. Mainly because their defensive backs were playing on their face. The steelers haven't been able to execute what the giants have against the pass so you can give most of the success for the browns passing game for the steelers lack of playing inconsistent pass defense.
Bazinet also defends Fiedler too much, Fiedler forced the ball and he was lucky for the second week straight that he didn't threw a possible of 3-4 interceptions. Our offensive line also needs help but my friend Bazinet here needs more help counting because I don't remember Fiedler Running all over the game after every snap. Yes, if he would have had 2 seconds to throw the ball then he would have to be pulling some michael vicks. We are fine at the moment, we won a game and Jay Fiedler kept the ball moving to put us in a good situation even though he risked putting us in bad situations by forcing the ball to much. Ricky Williams couldn't get it going and it was mainly because the Giants worked all week to stop him for a reason and it didn't win them a game. Ricky couldn't also stretch down the field because there was almost no holes for him to hit. We won the game and that is all that matters and who cares about stats if you can't win a game, boring game overall but we won.
You just don't get it do you? Like always bazinet, Rikwriter is right and everyone is wrong.
I don't see what kind of logic you are trying to apply. It's obvious that every game situation is different and the game against the giants was different. Not only were the giants real agressive up front, but they were playing agressive on the air as well. We had a couple of our receivers drop balls all over the field. Mainly because their defensive backs were playing on their face. The steelers haven't been able to execute what the giants have against the pass so you can give most of the success for the browns passing game for the steelers lack of playing inconsistent pass defense.
Bazinet also defends Fiedler too much, Fiedler forced the ball and he was lucky for the second week straight that he didn't threw a possible of 3-4 interceptions. Our offensive line also needs help but my friend Bazinet here needs more help counting because I don't remember Fiedler Running all over the game after every snap. Yes, if he would have had 2 seconds to throw the ball then he would have to be pulling some michael vicks. We are fine at the moment, we won a game and Jay Fiedler kept the ball moving to put us in a good situation even though he risked putting us in bad situations by forcing the ball to much. Ricky Williams couldn't get it going and it was mainly because the Giants worked all week to stop him for a reason and it didn't win them a game. Ricky couldn't also stretch down the field because there was almost no holes for him to hit. We won the game and that is all that matters and who cares about stats if you can't win a game, boring game overall but we won.
Last edited by a moderator:
juniorseau55
Go Fins
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
Well Bazinet you don't sound any different than him lol. Just kidding, you can't be such a genius like Rikwriter. I hear that Rikwriter has every nfl offensive/defensive playbook so I guess its nearly impossible to have an arguement with such a guru.
We don't live and die by the playaction pass but we incorporate it a lot into our offense but that doesn't mean that our passing game will become ineffective. I take it that you haven't been watching the browns game but if you have then you would know what a horrible job that the steelers have been doing stopping the pass. Will you find success if your defender can't cover you? yes you will. Now if they(steelers) were doing a good job then the offense will likely be shut down completely.
Originally posted by Bazinet37
Wow, you've found the fool-proof arguement: you're wrong. How can I argue against such genius?
Before you accuse me of not knowing my offenses, just realize I play defense for the UNM Lobos, and it is my JOB as a safety to recognize and understand defenses. I know what I'm talking about.
The Browns offense doesn't live and die by the playaction pass like ours does. Because of that, they can have their runnning game shut down, and still be able to pass because their offense is built to do that. So you are right about one of us not understanding our offenses......
Well Bazinet you don't sound any different than him lol. Just kidding, you can't be such a genius like Rikwriter. I hear that Rikwriter has every nfl offensive/defensive playbook so I guess its nearly impossible to have an arguement with such a guru.
We don't live and die by the playaction pass but we incorporate it a lot into our offense but that doesn't mean that our passing game will become ineffective. I take it that you haven't been watching the browns game but if you have then you would know what a horrible job that the steelers have been doing stopping the pass. Will you find success if your defender can't cover you? yes you will. Now if they(steelers) were doing a good job then the offense will likely be shut down completely.
Last edited by a moderator:
DolFinatic718
☠️ Banned ☠️
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2003
- Messages
- 848
- Reaction score
- 1
- Age
- 41
Ok a couple of you Fiedler supporters have it right on the head, and i'm here now to nail those points home (I live for things like this). I won't call out no names (and just because i'm qouting you doesn't mean i'm saying you are) but I hear alot of girls on this board crying. My question is for what?
"If the DB would of caught that ball in the endzone we would of lost". "If Griese comes in we'll win more games." well just like a writer on Phinzone.com said, "If my aunt had balls, she'll be my uncle." Who wins games and all week long says "If, if, if, if...." that makes no sense. The fact is we won the game, the fact is, fiedler had one turnover and it was not a int, it was a fumble. The fact is Fiedler do the best he could with limited help.
Here Are a few reasons while Fiedler had a good game. The Giants pass rush was all over Fiedler today! I don't think anyone here will say that our O-line played well. When your a Qb and you have to make throws before the recievers even finish their route running, bad things are going to happen (and we have witnessed this with other teams). Also can Griese scramble on 3rd and long (9) and run for a first down? I DON'T THINK SO. The coaches wouldn't even let that play cross their mind. Not only can Greise not run for first downs, but he can barely scramble to avoid a sack, which is something Fiedler can and has done.
Look around the league how many PURE pocket Qb's are left in the league? Pocket QB's are getting smaller and smaller each year, and ususally find themselves in a back up role. And whalla! that happens to be the case in Miami. We have a Starting QB who can make tough throws, and scramble, and we have a pure pocket Qb as our backup.
In closing, Fiedler bashers call out Fiedler supporters, well they will not acknowledge good decision making and tough throws that Fielder did make during the game. How about the pass across the middle to Thompson that was thrown right on his hands? Or how about sitting in the pocket long enough to hit Mcmicheal wide open on the game clenching drive? O sure a screen pass is probably the easiest play a Qb can throw, but how many Qb's set it up better then Fiedler? (and proof of this is the effectiveness it has had) Griese simply can not move around in the pocket.
"If our O line could of Opened holes for ricky this would of been a blow out, bench everybody." "If our recievers could get open 90% of the time Feidler would be in the pro bowl." "If another reciever other then chambers would step up then maybe they'll stop double teaming him." Blah Blah Blah Blah. Fact is we pulled out another tough one and "IF" we keep on pulling out tough ones, maybe just maybe, we'll be a superbowl type team.
"If the DB would of caught that ball in the endzone we would of lost". "If Griese comes in we'll win more games." well just like a writer on Phinzone.com said, "If my aunt had balls, she'll be my uncle." Who wins games and all week long says "If, if, if, if...." that makes no sense. The fact is we won the game, the fact is, fiedler had one turnover and it was not a int, it was a fumble. The fact is Fiedler do the best he could with limited help.
Here Are a few reasons while Fiedler had a good game. The Giants pass rush was all over Fiedler today! I don't think anyone here will say that our O-line played well. When your a Qb and you have to make throws before the recievers even finish their route running, bad things are going to happen (and we have witnessed this with other teams). Also can Griese scramble on 3rd and long (9) and run for a first down? I DON'T THINK SO. The coaches wouldn't even let that play cross their mind. Not only can Greise not run for first downs, but he can barely scramble to avoid a sack, which is something Fiedler can and has done.
Look around the league how many PURE pocket Qb's are left in the league? Pocket QB's are getting smaller and smaller each year, and ususally find themselves in a back up role. And whalla! that happens to be the case in Miami. We have a Starting QB who can make tough throws, and scramble, and we have a pure pocket Qb as our backup.
In closing, Fiedler bashers call out Fiedler supporters, well they will not acknowledge good decision making and tough throws that Fielder did make during the game. How about the pass across the middle to Thompson that was thrown right on his hands? Or how about sitting in the pocket long enough to hit Mcmicheal wide open on the game clenching drive? O sure a screen pass is probably the easiest play a Qb can throw, but how many Qb's set it up better then Fiedler? (and proof of this is the effectiveness it has had) Griese simply can not move around in the pocket.
"If our O line could of Opened holes for ricky this would of been a blow out, bench everybody." "If our recievers could get open 90% of the time Feidler would be in the pro bowl." "If another reciever other then chambers would step up then maybe they'll stop double teaming him." Blah Blah Blah Blah. Fact is we pulled out another tough one and "IF" we keep on pulling out tough ones, maybe just maybe, we'll be a superbowl type team.
Too many of these threads are turned into needless Fiedler debates with simple, redundant pot shots. In this thread, there were 9 other valid points made in the opening post. But we have to have the obligatory Fiedler pot shot to steer it right into those all to familiar waters. :rolleyes2
Rick 1966
Professional Hipshooter
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
And it's still you. The Browns offense doesn't HAVE to live and die by the play action BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GOOD QUARTERBACK. You live and die by the play action if your QB can only get the ball to the receivers if there are no double-teams.
Originally posted by Bazinet37
Wow, you've found the fool-proof arguement: you're wrong. How can I argue against such genius?
If you were as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't try.
Before you accuse me of not knowing my offenses, just realize I play defense for the UNM Lobos, and it is my JOB as a safety to recognize and understand defenses. I know what I'm talking about.
Sorry, but that doesn't mean anything. There are buttloads of people who play or have played football who still don't understand offenses. Dave Wannstedt for one.
The Browns offense doesn't live and die by the playaction pass like ours does. Because of that, they can have their runnning game shut down, and still be able to pass because their offense is built to do that. So you are right about one of us not understanding our offenses......
And it's still you. The Browns offense doesn't HAVE to live and die by the play action BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GOOD QUARTERBACK. You live and die by the play action if your QB can only get the ball to the receivers if there are no double-teams.
ZOD
Ruler of the Universe
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2003
- Messages
- 4,776
- Reaction score
- 7
PhinKev,
What your post ignores is the fact of how many players were committed to the rush.
In the preseason nobody bashed our line as much as me.
For what they were facing (amount of men) on the rush, I think the line and Ricky did a good job in both run and pass.
Ricky did not release from the backfield the entire game on a pass. The rush dictated that he remain in the pocket to block.
I put the blame on the ineffective offense on the QB and the receivers.
Rick 1966
Professional Hipshooter
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some Game Observations
Oh look, it's the Trash-Talk Twins, joined at the lip.
Oh look, it's the Trash-Talk Twins, joined at the lip.