Some Thoughts On Rosen | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Some Thoughts On Rosen

Rosen can throw the football... his numbers were similar to Darnold and josh Allen but he was on a horrible team with 9 O-lineman injured... he was sacked 45 times and his coordinator was fired after 6 games.

Pretty tough scenario for a rookie QB.

It’s worth a gamble I think.... he is smart and has a great arm.
 
I don't want to give a second either but there are rumors the Patriots may be interested so there is maybe competition.

Sure, but Rosen going to the Pats shouldn't scare us enough to throw in a 2nd round pick. Stand firm. The Pats are SB contenders as long as they have Brady and Belichick anyways.

For all we know, it's a media tactic by the Cardinals to scare us. I think we should play hard ball. Honestly I feel like we're competing with ourselves.
 
I liked Rosen last year and I still do. The reason I wouldn't trade a 2nd rounder is because Arizona is the one with no leverage. We don't need to cater to their demands or give them the edge in the trade. We are the ones with nothing to lose.

I mean them not having leverage is why they didn’t get a 1st.

At some point the lack of leverage runs out and a team gives up a proper pick for the talent.

Its an easy sell when talking about the rest of the QBs and giving up a 2 or a 3: or doing that for Rosen.
 
I mean them not having leverage is why they didn’t get a 1st.

At some point the lack of leverage runs out and a team gives up a proper pick for the talent.

Its an easy sell when talking about the rest of the QBs and giving up a 2 or a 3: or doing that for Rosen.

We have nothing to lose because worse case scenario we don't get him and we get a QB next year. We're not desperate for Rosen. The more this drags out, the more it hurts Arizona's value. That's why I'd play hardball. Although I'd be totally fine with a 3rd rounder for Rosen. I think that's fair for both sides.
 
Every QB with a little attitude being compared to Jay Cutler is annoying. I don't think he struggled in Arizona because he has opinions. He struggled because he was a rookie QB with no O-line, no weapons, and no coaching. He was thrown into the wolves. He could be a head case, but it could also be a media narrative. Let's say he does pan out, I don't care if he's a douche if he's playing well. It's not like Marino was a nice guy. I know Marino had more leadership qualities, but Rosen can develop them over time or might have them given the chance. He's only been in the league for 1 year.

Being a nice guy isn't everything. QBs don't have to be nice....but they need to be respected. Marino commanded respect. Brady commands respect. Maning, Rivers, Brees, etc....

That's what makes a QB a leader. If the team doesn't respect you, you are done. Look at the stuff going on with Rodgers now....that could get toxic. That is my biggest concern with Rosen from all reports i have seen since college. I know nothing about him personally but i'm sure there is enough contacts around the league that most teams do, either from coaches he's had or teammates he's played with.

Still though, a 2nd rounder to a team with ZERO leverage with the talent still on the board and the holes we have (which isn't a whole lot different than what Rosen had last year).....it's too much IMO.
 
I wasn't a huge fan of Rosen last year. He had miserable 3rd down numbers at UCLA. I posted the related link several times.

But it doesn't matter what I think. Do the right thing while limiting subjectivity and you'll be amazed how well it will work out in the long run. That's what the Dolphins are doing now. Difficult to believe this is the same franchise that drafted Charles Harris two years ago. Now we've had two astute selections in Minkah Fitzpatrick and Christian Wilkins. Both of those guys were 5 star players in high school and quickly started and starred in college. Josh Rosen is another 5 star recruit who started immediately in college, putting up 7.5 YPA as a true freshman then 8.3 and 8.3 again.

Rosen would be very good value at this point. Do it then see what happens. This is not a 7-year waste. It doesn't prevent anything next year. Besides, our odds at Tua are far lower than anyone dares believe. Even if we have the second pick it would require a massive, massive haul to move up. Don't kid yourself that Tua won't be the first pick, or that anyone else is on his level, like Fromm and his 8.75 hands. This is not complicated. As I mentioned months ago, Mayfield, Murray and Tua have each put up freakish YPA seasons of 11.2 and above. That is separation and makes them the first pick in three consecutive drafts.

I would be less inclined if our pick were within the top 40, instead of 48. That 40 number is the cutoff point I look at every year. That is basically still an extension of the first round, after many teams screw around late in the first round and allow talented players to slide. But once you reach beyond 40 it is pure second round and your success rate drops accordingly. I hate making adjustments based on how the board looks year to year, or the names we fall in love with. Bottom line, if they drop beyond 40 you are increasingly gambling instead of investing. Taking last year's 10th pick with a following 2nd is sharp investing.

Whew. None of this seems to matter now that Daniel Jones is somewhere else. I didn't want any temptation there. That pick is the epitome of doing the wrong thing. Jones was a nothing recruit and never managed above 6.8 YPA at Duke. His junior season was 5.9. Nearly half of his games at Duke were 6.0 or lower...often much lower. That player is classic tape guy sucker material, which is why traditional types like Charlie Casserly and Bucky Brooks and obviously Gettleman loved him, while the analytics guys like commonmanfootball on YouTube wanted no part of him. BTW, I recommend watching that commonmanfootball guy as he reacts to picks he doesn't like and can't believe. He is a Raiders fan and went nuts last night when they took Ferrell that high.

I like the Giants but at that point I didn't care who was taking Jones. I wanted to cleanse the world by getting him off the board before Miami appeared.

Once it reached our choice it reminded me exactly of last year. I thought it would be either Wilkins or Lawrence. Earlier I was desperately rooting for Oliver to fall but that seemed like a pipe dream. Similar to last year with Minkah above Derwin James, in Wilkins we took the safer guy and a high character building block. Wilkins reminds me of a '70s Dolphin. I was very satisfied, while acknowledging that Wilkins can be detoured on occasion, and the bigger framed guy Lawrence might have more upside if everything booms for him, like Derwin James so far.
 
Being a nice guy isn't everything. QBs don't have to be nice....but they need to be respected. Marino commanded respect. Brady commands respect. Maning, Rivers, Brees, etc....

That's what makes a QB a leader. If the team doesn't respect you, you are done. Look at the stuff going on with Rodgers now....that could get toxic. That is my biggest concern with Rosen from all reports i have seen since college. I know nothing about him personally but i'm sure there is enough contacts around the league that most teams do, either from coaches he's had or teammates he's played with.

Still though, a 2nd rounder to a team with ZERO leverage with the talent still on the board and the holes we have (which isn't a whole lot different than what Rosen had last year).....it's too much IMO.

It's a legitimate concern, but at the same time how much evidence is there of this? How media driven is this narrative? The only people I really see say this are TV analysts and writers with their "sources." Is he so toxic that his teammates at UCLA and Arizona dislike him? Is there a lot of evidence of that?

I still wouldn't trade a 2nd rounder, but I'm starting to really wonder how credible this is.
 
You can get away with a sub standard oline when you have a QB who can dissect you pre snap and get the ball in Tom Brady like fashion out to its target.
 
A QB is a leader of men. Josh Rosen has a significant track record of being poor at that, and no track record of succeeding at it. If we bring him in, it goes against everything Grier and Flores have said … and we will certainly miss out on the QB's in 2020. This looks like just another patch job, but one that is worse than the previous ones. All the talk from Grier & Flores about wanting people who lived and breathed football … is proven wrong. All the talk about wanting to rebuild a culture of commitment and sacrifice … is undone. All the talk about wanting people who are willing to put the team above themselves is proven to be just that … talk.

It's going to be hard to rebuild a team if they can't believe a word their coaching staff is saying. If Flores is to succeed, I sincerely hope we do not add Josh Rosen … his track record is the opposite of everything that Grier and Flores have been saying they want to build. And young players aren't going to get on that bandwagon if they have different rules entirely for the QB.
Since the team passed on Haskins, why not stick to the rebuilding plan? I did like Rosen talent-wise coming out, but agree with you on the leadership concerns.
 
I liked Rosen last year and I still do. The reason I wouldn't trade a 2nd rounder is because Arizona is the one with no leverage. We don't need to cater to their demands or give them the edge in the trade. We are the ones with nothing to lose.

If you have a talented player you have leverage. A 2nd round pick is more than reasonable for a guy drafted in the top 10 a year before and who was in competition to go number one overall.
 
If you have a talented player you have leverage. A 2nd round pick is more than reasonable for a guy drafted in the top 10 a year before and who was in competition to go number one overall.

It depends on how many teams are interested and what those teams are offering. If it's just us, they have no leverage. They don't have leverage over us since we're in the QB sweepstakes next year. We don't need to give them a 2nd rounder. If this drags out, it only hurts Arizona. We have nothing to lose.
 
If you have a talented player you have leverage. A 2nd round pick is more than reasonable for a guy drafted in the top 10 a year before and who was in competition to go number one overall.

Not when it's a QB and you just took one #1 overall. Only one can play.
 
Sure, but Rosen going to the Pats shouldn't scare us enough to throw in a 2nd round pick. Stand firm. The Pats are SB contenders as long as they have Brady and Belichick anyways.

For all we know, it's a media tactic by the Cardinals to scare us. I think we should play hard ball. Honestly I feel like we're competing with ourselves.

The Pats being involved sure as heck should scare us. Competition is kind of what sets markets. That's how they work. Though we shouldn't trade for a player we don't want just to keep the Pats from getting him, we clearly want him. Doesn't the though of New England having a top 10 talent at QB to succeed Brady scare you? That system has been plug and play with some really mediocre QB's. Rosen is as natural of a thrower as they come, my questions with him them more from how he might do on a bad team. I think he'll do great on a good one.
 
It depends on how many teams are interested and what those teams are offering. If it's just us, they have no leverage. They don't have leverage over us since we're in the QB sweepstakes next year. We don't need to give them a 2nd rounder. If this drags out, it only hurts Arizona. We have nothing to lose.

This is an extremely rare chance to get a high caliber QB prospect for pennies on the dollar. This team needs help all over after Gase ran out the little real talent it had and the regime never addressed its deficiencies. It doesn't make sense to not trade a second rounder for the type of QB prospect you'd love to spend a first or sell the farm to get next year.
 
Back
Top Bottom