Sports Buzz: Dolphins want a vertical offense and notes on Misi, 4-3 MLB's

[JerryD]

its not that misi doesnt collect a ton of sacks, it's just that he seems to just be a body out there. rarely did I ever see him even get penetration let alone a sack. I just never see him contribute much. I like keuchly a lot better than misi... to each his own.

Channing Crowder v 2.0

BTW, the Phinsider has Crowder in their Top 100 Dolphins ... just shows how fandom replaces football knowledge for so many folks.

 

[normaniii]

This is a good point particularly with Ireland having his board set prior to combine. Alot depends on Manning and Flynn IMO. Cus if they dont happen, things change. Tannehill, RG3 ect.

100% agree. Ireland and Ross have both stated they believe they have a 'win now' roster just short of a QB. In my mind 'winning now' is not conducive to a rookie QB. I believe we will go hard after Manning/Flynn and expect at minimum playoffs this year.

 

[LANGER72]

Are you smoking crack? That's one of the deeper positions of this draft.

Whatever you say scout.

 

[dlockz]

Ireland every year has filled weakest spot on depth chart with 1st round pick, with the intention for him to start right away. Whatever we do in FA will determine IMO who we draft. Im 90% he will go offense. IMO we are looking at Reilly Reiff/DeCastro. Not saying my choice, but 1 of them 2, if not both will be available at #8 and would start immediately.

I would go DeCastro. Incognito is a far better RG than LG. Carey was a very good RT who was worse at RG. We would instantly improve the line and potentially have the best left side in football. Long -DeCastro-Pouncey-Incognito-Carey sounds superb.

He never filled qb so your statement isnt true. Jared Odrick was not in our weakest spot. LT was not our weakest spot when we drafted Long, C was not our weakest spot last year. Cb may have been our weakest spot .

 

[LANGER72]

This is a good point particularly with Ireland having his board set prior to combine. Alot depends on Manning and Flynn IMO. Cus if they dont happen, things change. Tannehill, RG3 ect.

Good point normaniii, he does fill in the greatest need, and smartly so. The last couple of years we had glaring needs.
This year is a toss up. If he can roll the dice and come up a winner with RGIII (which is perceived as a big need), I think he will make a splash. If he is out maneuvered, or the cost is ridiculous, he will likely stick to the greatest other need script. Like finfan pointed out, the final destination of Flynn and Manning will determine the course.
I think Flynn's decision will come first, and then Manning. The discussions are probably intense right now. Everyone is trying to gauge what the others are trying to do. Who will sign first? We should know pretty soon.

 

[LANGER72]

He never filled qb so your statement isnt true. Jared Odrick was not in our weakest spot. LT was not our weakest spot when we drafted Long, C was not our weakest spot last year. Cb may have been our weakest spot .

Selective amnesia? Pat White? They drafted Henne remember? The experiment went up in smoke. The staff wanted to see Henne with a different coordinator. He did better, but the same troubling tendencies and decisions torpedoed him. Credit Ireland with landing Matt Moore. He did better than anyone could have expected.

Our oline was horrendous prior to drafting Jake Long. He was the top player on the board. Could we have drafted Ryan? Sure, but the trifecta already had another vision with Henne.

I don't know why I am continuing, all of this hindsight is 20/20 is nonsense.

In your opinion, in my opinion, it all doesn't matter now what mistakes have been made.

The bottom line is to get it fixed.

 

[normaniii]

He never filled qb so your statement isnt true. Jared Odrick was not in our weakest spot. LT was not our weakest spot when we drafted Long, C was not our weakest spot last year. Cb may have been our weakest spot .

2008 - No LT - Jake Long
2009 - No CB opp Will Allen - V.Davis
2010 - Jason Ferguson was NT and was suspended for 8 games. Paul Solai was not even in running and idea was to put Starks at NT and Odrick at RDE.
2011 - No C - Mike Pouncey

Id understand your argument for 2008 as at the time we did not have a recognised QB, but Ireland & Parcells wanted to go sure thing with the amount of money being paid to rookie's back then. Not saying I agree with all picks but Ireland has always drafted 1st round pick with the intention to start right away.

 

[dlockz]

2008 - No LT - Jake Long
2009 - No CB opp Will Allen - V.Davis
2010 - Jason Ferguson was NT and was suspended for 8 games. Paul Solai was not even in running and idea was to put Starks at NT and Odrick at RDE.
2011 - No C - Mike Pouncey

Id understand your argument for 2008 as at the time we did not have a recognised QB, but Ireland & Parcells wanted to go sure thing with the amount of money being paid to rookie's back then. Not saying I agree with all picks but Ireland has always drafted 1st round pick with the intention to start right away.

He said fill weakest position with first round pick

2008- We had Carey at LT who wasnt the best but he was far from the weakest link on the line, he was probably our best lineman so that makes the statement untrue. We had John Beck at qb who was horrible in limited play
2009-you might be correct]
2010=we had merling and langford who were certainly better than many of the linemen on our team
2011-C although not a strength was not as bad as our guards

 

[dlockz]

Selective amnesia? Pat White? They drafted Henne remember? The experiment went up in smoke. The staff wanted to see Henne with a different coordinator. He did better, but the same troubling tendencies and decisions torpedoed him. Credit Ireland with landing Matt Moore. He did better than anyone could have expected.

Our oline was horrendous prior to drafting Jake Long. He was the top player on the board. Could we have drafted Ryan? Sure, but the trifecta already had another vision with Henne.

I don't know why I am continuing, all of this hindsight is 20/20 is nonsense.

In your opinion, in my opinion, it all doesn't matter now what mistakes have been made.

The bottom line is to get it fixed.

He spoke of first round picks and thats what I commented on and with exception of Vontae davis he did not select a player at our weakest position.

 

[flynryan15]

CB was not our weakest position until Ireland made it one by failing to retainour FA's. In true Ireland form he creates more holes then he fills.

LT was not near the weakness QB was we had Beck and a McCown.

CB was not a weakness that WR was

DE was our strongest/deepest spot on defense. Any plan involving a player switching positions is a bad one. Safety was a bigger need and we passed up on E. Thomas.

C wouldn't have been a need if they didn't blow it so bad on Grove.

 

[flynryan15]

CB was not our weakest position until Ireland made it one by failing to retainour FA's. In true Ireland form he creates more holes then he fills.

LT was not near the weakness QB was we had Beck and a McCown.

CB was not a weakness that WR was

DE was our strongest/deepest spot on defense. Any plan involving a player switching positions is a bad one. Safety was a bigger need and we passed up on E. Thomas.

C wouldn't have been a need if they didn't blow it so bad on Grove.

 

[utahphinsfan]

...Not much is being discussed about Keuchly. I can see a scenario where we would take him... Nowadays, the staff deliberately send out misinformation and mixed signals on purpose.

Not much is being said about Poe or Fletcher Cox (esp if Soliai walks) either? Does that mean they may draft either of them?

What we do know is that he was a versatile player in college who played DE and OLB.
The Steelers had success converting Timmons to an ILB, so why can't Misi play the position? From everything I've read about him, he's a hard worker, plays physically and smart.

I don't recall Misi EVER playing OLB in college. Koa did play some DT. Paul Kruger was more likely to drop into coverage.

FWIW, the stealers drafted Stevenson Sylvester who played OLB @ Utah (3 rounds after Koa) & are converting him to ILB.

 

[Rick Cartman]

I think its comical that people so readily dismiss Misi because he's not an edge rusher. Guess what?, neither is Kuechly or Ray Lewis.
Fact is, none of use know if Misi can be effective as a MLB. Only the coaches who breakdown his film, pick his brain and watch him in practice can truly make that projection.
What we do know is that he was a versatile player in college who played DE and OLB. For the Phins he was effective in setting the edge, playing the run, dropping into coverage and playing with a high motor. So, in that respect he's a good NFL player. Its ridiculous for anyone to call him a bust.
The Steelers had success converting Timmons to an ILB, so why can't Misi play the position? From everything I've read about him, he's a hard worker, plays physically and smart.
Reading some of the posts regarding Misi (on several threads), if the guy can't be a dominant outside pass rusher, he's automatically a failure. There is much more to playing defense than just collecting sacks.

I didn't call him a bust or say he was incapable of playing MLB. I'm saying in my opinion Luke Kuechly can play MLB extremely better than Koa Misi. I think a lot of the distaste towards Misi is he could have been Rob Gronkowski and he isn't producing anywhere near what you would expect for someone picked so high. Having a player switch positions that you invested a high pick in is not usually a sign of him reaching his value; He's being tried out at MLB because there literally isn't anywhere else to put this versatile player you stated he is. Give me Luke Kuechly instead of force feeding me Koa Misi.

 

[luduporcu]

I think its comical that people so readily dismiss Misi because he's not an edge rusher. Guess what?, neither is Kuechly or Ray Lewis.
Fact is, none of use know if Misi can be effective as a MLB. Only the coaches who breakdown his film, pick his brain and watch him in practice can truly make that projection.
What we do know is that he was a versatile player in college who played DE and OLB. For the Phins he was effective in setting the edge, playing the run, dropping into coverage and playing with a high motor. So, in that respect he's a good NFL player. Its ridiculous for anyone to call him a bust.
The Steelers had success converting Timmons to an ILB, so why can't Misi play the position? From everything I've read about him, he's a hard worker, plays physically and smart.
Reading some of the posts regarding Misi (on several threads), if the guy can't be a dominant outside pass rusher, he's automatically a failure. There is much more to playing defense than just collecting sacks.

MISI's a bust i/m/o ONLY--repeat--ONLY as a pass-rushing "3-4" OLB. I, myself, thought about moving him to ILB (3-4) then MLB (4-3 or "hybrid") about 1 1/2 months ago. (It's nice to be in good company!) MISI has bulk, strength, speed, and experience in coverage, and to me, that means that he can go "sideline to sideline, and deliver a hit when he gets there! He DOES seem to play smart: all the better. And he reportedly works hard. Better still!! A bigger ZACK, maybe? Tuck HIM behind a pair of DTs like ODRICK/STARKS, and maybe even SOLIAI/STARKS (the new TIMBO/GARDNER?), and turn him loose on an unsuspecting Football World.

He'll need a nickname: how about Captain Crunch?

 

[phinman1]

Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland said coach Joe Philbin wants an offense that will “go vertical, get the ball out quickly, spread it around to a lot of different players.” But Miami must adjust if Peyton Manning signs, because as Brian Billick said, “Why would you bring him in and not do what he does best?” But a Manning associate said he believes Manning would be receptive to blending in some of Philbin’s and Mike Sherman’s elements.

The Dolphins have told at least four people they want to play a 4-3 defense primarily, with some 3-4, and would be comfortable Karlos Dansby, Kevin Burnett or Koa Misi manning the middle. Ireland has raved about the potential of Dansby in that role, but Misi has good instincts for the spot, too.

Among the half dozen players linked to the Dolphins with the No. 8 pick, South Carolina linebacker/end Melvin Ingram helped himself at the NFL Combine and Alabama linebacker Courtney Upshaw hurt himself, with lack of explosiveness. But Ireland said he had his draft board set before the Combine “because they’re not playing football. They’re just running around in shorts.”

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/#storylink=cpy

Man, that is great news. I was worried the Dolphins wanted to go horizontal, get the ball out slowly and throw to just one guy. It's great reporting like this that puts you at ease.