Spragan | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Spragan

phillyphinphan said:
Yeah I said "He likes", so what?? I don't have a dam link & I don't have his effn book. And I could care less. Saban, from everything I've READ, likes to run 3-4 defense at least some of the time. The 3-4 defense calls for taller lbs b/c they'll be taking on O linemen alot more than lbs in a 4-3. J cole form the herald stated in an article or his Q&A that he (Saban) prefers taller lbs as opposed to smaller quicker ones and if you look at the moves he made I have no reason to believe Cole was mistaken in his comments. I have neither the time or want to look for a link supporting this and could care less if you believe what I write or not. this ins't groundbreaking info here. what does he place a higher importance on ie heart or measurables? don't know and never stated that I did. being that there are exceptions to every rule he prob. looks at both. The point your'e trying to prove is weak....
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Why did you take this personnally, that's not how I presented it..I wasn't asking you to prove anything..are you having a bad day, I'm sorry. I just wanted to know where everybody gets this is Saban's type from. Nothing personal, it would help me in evaluating a potential player that we may want to pick up. I'd have a better idea of if he's a type player we'd sign if I knew more about what Saban likes. I just see a player who can play or not, and I miss all the measurables. So all that other stuff you threw in wasn't neccessary. When I comment on things on this board, I expect to be challenged, and I think it's good so that we get the best out of the conversation. If you don't want someone to question you, please either don't comment or just say, this is my opinion and I can't back it up. I'll let it go right there. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it lets me know this is more gut than fact.
 
Look up SabanScience under members and read his posts... he only has about 25 but they are all good reads.
 
MDFINFAN said:
Why did you take this personnally, that's not how I presented it..I wasn't asking you to prove anything..are you having a bad day, I'm sorry. I just wanted to know where everybody gets this is Saban's type from. Nothing personal, it would help me in evaluating a potential player that we may want to pick up. I'd have a better idea of if he's a type player we'd sign if I knew more about what Saban likes. I just see a player who can play or not, and I miss all the measurables. So all that other stuff you threw in wasn't neccessary. When I comment on things on this board, I expect to be challenged, and I think it's good so that we get the best out of the conversation. If you don't want someone to question you, please either don't comment or just say, this is my opinion and I can't back it up. I'll let it go right there. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it lets me know this is more gut than fact.
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Classy post.....

I think Spragan and Greenwood are essentially the same player. I think they will give whatever team similar results.

Spragan is simply a hell of a lot LESS MONEY then Greenwood.

Thats why Spragan is here and Greenwood is in Texas.

Its not meant to be an "upgrade". Just a more friendly cap situation.
 
MDFINFAN said:
Can someone give me a link to the kind of players Saban likes..everyone uses the phase "what Saban likes", I want to get caught up with this. I've only seen him draft and sign the normal prototype players most teams do. So if he has a certain style I'd like to know. So if there's info out there that says what type of player is interested in, I'd like to see it. Anyone please..this post wasn't directed at this poster only, but a number of people who used the "style of (position) that Saban likes", comment.
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I base my statements on several things. There have been articles written and things said about what type of player Saban likes ever since his coming to the Fins, but I don't have the links. But based on these things and based on the style of D he ran at MSU, LSU and the Browns...he likes the bigger, taller LBs to fill in gaps and string out the OL and keep the rushing plays going east and west, and putting additional pressure on the QB on passing plays. If you think back to the Giants with LT, Pepper and company you can see the type of player he tends to like. That influence (on Saban) probably came from Belichek (sp). At Cleveland, he had Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson, Travis Hill, Gerald Dixon and Ed Sutter as LBrs...all in the same mold. Since then, it has been stated by BB that he consulted with Saban on building his Pats D. The smallest LBs they have are in the 250 lb range and all are at least 6'2"...Even at LSU, even tho he didn't have all 250 lb LBs, he had LBs that were big for college play. He also has been widely known to adjust his scheme to his players and move his LBrs and DL around a lot. If you remember LSU two seasons ago, they were constantly moving the front 7 around and creating mismatches and confusion on the OL. So I hope this answers your question as to where most of us deduct the "Saban" type LBer...
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
I've been a season ticket holder for over 10 years, and I can't recall Greenwood ever playing MLB. Can you confirm this with any proof???...
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I'm looking back at all the games the past few seasons as we speak. However..........I'd like to share something with you real quick.....

http://www.miamifootball365.com/dolphins/printer_morlon-greenwood-out.shtml

Evidently I'm not the only FinFan to have seen Morlon fill in admirably for Zach. What team have you been watching in those 10 years as a season ticket holder?

"Not a playmaker" is all I needed to hear. You need "playmakers" at every LB position if you expect to play stout defense. His mediocrity was clearly obvious to me....
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Not true at all. It all depends on how the defense is run. Seriously, which team do you know, besides the Patriots, has bonafied playmakers at every linebacking position? Get real. Teams are lucky to have one and 2 other solid backers to fill the rest of the core up.

I don't hate the guy, I don't even know him. I still think he's a below average OLB...
PHINZ RULE!!!
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..........and yet the only reason you think he's below average is because he's not a playmaker. I just don't share that same viewpoint. Not every player in the game is going to be a playmaker. Some guys are blue collar guys, hard workers who never blow their assignments, guys who do all the grunt work knowing they won't get the credit. Greenwood did was he was asked to do. He was only used on running downs and more than held his own. D*mn I mean look at the man's tackle count the last season considering the fact that he only played 40 to 50 percent of the defensive snaps..........129 tackles!!! Below average LB's don't rack up those kinds of numbers.
 
enigmatics said:
129 tackles!!! Below average LB's don't rack up those kinds of numbers.
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They do when both of your starting DT's are out for the season, and the middle of the DL is being held down by 2nd string players....

Regardless of whether he played in place of Zach or not,{I still doubt he ever did}, he's about as average a OLB as there is in this league. Wait until you see what Saban's replacement accomplishes, and I'm sure you'll agree he that Greenwood, was basically deadwood....

I'm not sure about the rest of the fans here, but I sure wont miss him....

PHINZ RULE!!!
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
They do when both of your starting DT's are out for the season, and the middle of the DL is being held down by 2nd string players....

Regardless of whether he played in place of Zach or not,{I still doubt he ever did}, he's about as average a OLB as there is in this league. Wait until you see what Saban's replacement accomplishes, and I'm sure you'll agree he that Greenwood, was basically deadwood....

I'm not sure about the rest of the fans here, but I sure wont miss him....

PHINZ RULE!!!
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Huh............ the DT's are there to absorb blockers in a 4-3 so that our linebackers can make the tackles. Or did you miss that memo? So it wouldn't matter whether they were 1st or 4th stringers.

Again, I obviously wasn't the only person to have seen Greenwood take snaps in Zach's place. I understand you won't miss him.......not saying I will either......... he was a steady player and put up decent numbers, but never was a playmaker. The Texans paid him thinking that he could become one. You never know. The man played and was tutored in all types of defensive schemes having played at Syracuse where they utilized a 5-2, a 3-4, and a 4-3. He's a game film freak. The list goes on and on with his upsides. The Dolphins never asked him to be a playmaker. He was there to stop the run, then took a seat when the nickel and dime packages came on. What more is the guy to do?

I just personally think it's a bit brash to say the man sucked. I also think it's funny how you're convinced any of the guys Saban brings in will somehow dominate that position and accumulate crazy stats. Who's to say Greenwood doesn't do that for Dom Capers defensive scheme with the Texans? No team is going to sign him to the contract he got if he sucked. His contract wasn't cap breaking either, it was just at the number where it didn't make sense for the Dolphins when you consider that strong side linebacker isn't going to make or break Saban's defense scheme.
 
enigmatics said:
Huh............ the DT's are there to absorb blockers in a 4-3 so that our linebackers can make the tackles. Or did you miss that memo? So it wouldn't matter whether they were 1st or 4th stringers.

Again, I obviously wasn't the only person to have seen Greenwood take snaps in Zach's place. I understand you won't miss him.......not saying I will either......... he was a steady player and put up decent numbers, but never was a playmaker. The Texans paid him thinking that he could become one. You never know. The man played and was tutored in all types of defensive schemes having played at Syracuse where they utilized a 5-2, a 3-4, and a 4-3. He's a game film freak. The list goes on and on with his upsides. The Dolphins never asked him to be a playmaker. He was there to stop the run, then took a seat when the nickel and dime packages came on. What more is the guy to do?

I just personally think it's a bit brash to say the man sucked. I also think it's funny how you're convinced any of the guys Saban brings in will somehow dominate that position and accumulate crazy stats. Who's to say Greenwood doesn't do that for Dom Capers defensive scheme with the Texans? No team is going to sign him to the contract he got if he sucked. His contract wasn't cap breaking either, it was just at the number where it didn't make sense for the Dolphins when you consider that strong side linebacker isn't going to make or break Saban's defense scheme.
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Here's his career numbers. Rather pathetic if you ask me....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=5536

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5536

This debate is going nowhere. I can see you were in love with the guy, but please, get over it already....

PHINZ RULE!!!
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
This deabte is going nowhere. I can see you were in love with the guy, but please, get over it already....

PHINZ RULE!!!
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........took the chicken way out of the conversation you have..........
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
Here's his career numbers. Rather pathetic if you ask me....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=5536

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5536

This deabte is going nowhere. I can see you were in love with the guy, but please, get over it already....

PHINZ RULE!!!
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If I am in love, then you're a spiteful hater.

Let's see here, with every year his stats increased. What does that say about his improvement? The guy is only in his 5th year too. Those numbers look pathetic to you because you were expecting Lawrence Talyor from our strong side linebacker position duing the Wanny years. You obviously didn't understand our scheme.
 
enigmatics said:
Let's see here, with every year his stats increased.
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Well, actually they didn't. Looking at his game log, it's all 1 tackle here, 2 tackles there. WEAK....

Last year was his best season, and that was highly contributed to a lack of run defense. Our entire DL was injued for almost the entire season, not including JT of course. I just think you're giving Greenwood way too much credit here....undeserved credit at that.

PHINZ RULE!!!
 
both greenwood and spragan are average OLBs.....both of them lack playmaking abilities.....they have 0 INTs, 3 FFs, and 4 sacks combined over a span of 6 seasons(exlcuding Spragan's first three seasons with saints)....i see spragan to be no more than greenwood was
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
Well, actually they didn't. Looking at his game log, it's all 1 tackle here, 2 tackles there. WEAK....

Last year was his best season, and that was highly contributed to a lack of run defense. Our entire DL was injued for almost the entire season, not including JT of course. I just think you're giving Greenwood way too much credit here....undeserved credit at that.

PHINZ RULE!!!
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Hate to burst your bubble, but it would be impossible to log any of the numbers he's put up each season if he only got 1 or 2 tackles per.

How was him having his best season due to our defense being bad?????? I'd love to hear your explanation. Our linebackers are asked to make the brunt of the tackles due to the 4-3 scheme regardless of whether it's Dario Romero in there or Tim Bowens.

I'm not giving him too much credit. I'm defending the guy from your ridiculous "he sucks" comment. I admitted he's no playmaker. He's just a solid run stopping strong side linebacker.......or at least he was for us. I'm curious as to the kind of impact he has on the Texans D.
 
enigmatics said:
How was him having his best season due to our defense being bad?????? I'd love to hear your explanation.
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Easy, no DL to shut down the running game. Sounds like a winner to me....

I've stated my case, I've posted the numbers, and now I'm done with it. I'm glad we found a replacement for Greenwood....

PHINZ RULE!!!
 
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