The Bottom Line Is That Huizenga Really Does Not Feel That Wale Is A Great Player.... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Bottom Line Is That Huizenga Really Does Not Feel That Wale Is A Great Player....

njfinfan said:
Pardon me for disagreeing in a way, however, didn't Wale lead the NFL in sacks last year? 15 to be exact? I think he is a necessity for this team and I'm not clear on why JT helped him attain all those sacks. Please clarify.
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Strahan led the league in sacks
 
Great thread, thanks for starting it DCH. At this time of year its a relief to get to talk about substance and not just fluff.

I tend to agree with DCH regarding Wayne's need to approve the upfront money. There have been many occasions in the past where Dave said, after signing a player, we did the contract and took it to Wayne and he said spend the money. I don't see Weidemeyer being handcuffed by that.

The list of greats on this team is right on, Williams, Taylor, Surtain, and Thomas. Zach and Taylor are past what should have been their primes and are continuing to perform at a very high level. Madison and Timbo were great and continue to perform well but their best years are behind them. The up and comers such as McMichael, Chambers, Boston, James, and perhaps some others who will step it up this year are going to want to get compensated accordingly. Only James is locked in long term. Our cap situation needs to continue to be managed well.

Given this apparent impasse, I wish we would give Drew the right to shop Wale around. I would like to recieve some future compensation for him if we are going to loose him and perhaps if a great offer comes in, Wayne will change his mind or if one fails to come in, Drew will.
 
i agree absolutely with ZOD, all our key players played out their rookie contracts, newest example is CC, so why must wale be paid one year before he is due to get paid.
 
DIRTYCASHHOLDIN said:
Hello to all the posters and fans around here. I just wanted to chime in here and get to the crux of the real problem on why Drew and Wale are so frustrated with this whole situation. And its right up there in my headline.... the Rosenhaus camp is simply perplexed and baffled that the DOlphins owner---really in his mind just is not convinced at all....that Ogunleye is a great player in this league, and should be paid....well....like a great player should be. Drew would like to have the chance to sit down with Mr. H and try to convince him why...with the film eveidence and a chart where WALE falls in relation to his peers in the league, production-wise. He is frustrated with the way WAYNE has come out publicly about WALE...as he stated that Jimmy Johnson once told him that "you pay a great player--a great salary....and you pay a good player....a good salary". Ask any of the Dolphin players privately...they all say WALE is indeed a great player....but then most will pause and say....."it does not matter what we think"...its really up to the man". And that man is Huizenga.....who many DOlphin players and of course....Drew and Jason now believe is the man who is pulling in the reigns...so to speak....and madating to both Bryan Weidmyer and Matt Thomas....to not give in on the demands that Drew is pounding his fist on...and that goes to the tune of a signing bonus in the neighborhood of 10 million dollars. That of course is the guaranteed money and this must be approved by Wayne himself. Weidmyer and Thomas cannot just say we are going to give you this amount....not without Wayne's approval...and right now the Dolphins are offering Drew half the amount that he is looking at...in the signing bonus...and that is that....talks are indeed going nowhere, and have ended without any signs of progressing....where its even worth talking about. This is going to be a nightmare for Drew...this is the most frustrated his close associates have ever seen him with regard to negotiations with the Dolphins....he has a great working relationship with Waynes front office....but this is the first time he has ever seen the Dolphins owner come out publicly with comments on regard to two of his clients....MARE and Ogunleye....and this has not made either player comfortable at all....but these actions by the owner....have put a very dark cloud over these negotiations....make no mistake about it. This is why recently Drew went to the media and stated why he likes DAN SNYDER so much....because he is the lead decision maker....and its so unlike the dolphins situation.....because he cannot get to Wayne....he cant convince him about Wale...he cant rebuttle the owners previous comments....he cant do a thing but deal with the middle men..a guy like Snyder is right there to tell Drew yes or no and a deal is either done right there or Drew leaves without a deal. In conclusion....this is a deal that will not get done....unless Wayne comes to the conclusion that Wale is a very, very valuable asset to the Dolphins...and gives his blessings to increase the signing bonus.....and two....Drew himself has to get a grip that Wale is not going to be the player that the dolphins break the bank for....not when he knows himself that he represents Randy Mcmichael....and along with him, Surtain, Chambers, and Ricky....they are all on the radar of guaranteed signing bonuses....what would be your pecking order of importance there, Drew....if you are the owner? That is a lot of money...that list. And the owner just thinks that out of all of them.....Wale is the least greatest of them all. How does this all play out.....I really don't see anything but a long battle here....and don't expect the Dolphins to trade Ogun anytime soon either. Lots of rumors....absolutely no substance. He cant be traded--unless he has a contract with the Dolphins. The Dolphins have never given Drew permission publicly to seek a trade....all Wanny has said....."if anyone is willing to give up a first and a third...we will listen"...and that was when the original high tender was on the table...now...of course...that tender stuff is all irrelevent....unless this goes on into the season. The Dolphins have done everything legal thus far....and have obeyed the CBA to the fullest degree...there is nothing Drew can do....but to keep poking away...pound his fists...and just keep posturing to get the Dolphins to increase that offer. This will go down as Drews toughest challenge....many people in the Dolphins inner circle are watching on how far Wayne will go with Wale.....the outcome of this stalemate will determine a statement line from the owner....one way or the other.
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Wayne is clueless in hiring his head coach and clearly has no talent for it, not to mention the GM, so why would we expect him to be able to appraise the quality of a football player?
 
TerryTate said:
You do have to admit that while wanny's coaching is questionable, he has a knack for defense, and his instincts are telling him that Wally isnt as good as Drew thinks he is...

I actually trust wanny on this one....
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:roflmao: He has a knack for defense? Other than Wale tell me what top defensive players he discovered?

Morlon Greenwood? :roflmao:
 
While most of our defense came during the Jimmy Johnson era, but The amount of pro bowls all our defensive players have achieved should say something. If a good defensive coordinator(wanny):) thinks Ogun is good enough for a high contract deal, we may want to listen.

And DCH has a point about what level to pay our players and the precedent a max deal for Ogun would create. I believe the Jets went through this a few years ago with Coles. He wanted a high contract, but the Jets FO was looking at expiring contracts of Abraham and Pennington. They knew if they gave in to Coles then the cost of the two more important players would increase dramatically
 
Kistner10 said:
With Jason Taylor on the other side, Ogun doesn't have to face double teams. He gets matched up 1 on 1 every play and doesn't have to deal with the double and triple teams that JT faces. JT had 13 sacks last year with every team game planning against him. Wally does what he is suppose to do, he stops the run and can beat the opposing tackle. But if JT went down than I dont think Wally's production would remain up. He is still a very good player, but he isn't in JT's class yet.
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That's really not true. Wale faces the RT and usually the TE. That slows his rush down by about 1 second. JT did not get double-teamed nearly as much as he did in 2002....and not nearly as much as people seem to think. Also, JT just didn't seem to be as effective with his inside moves as he was in 2002. It was almost as if everyone was prepared for them and he knew it. So he just went outside.

JT is still an elite player and Wale isn't. No disputing that. But the notion that JT got 13 sacks vs double/triple teams while Wale got 15 vs singles just isn't accurate.

Here's something that's kinda ironic (for lack of a better word). Both players benefit from outstanding coverage, but are harmed back the lack of an interior pass rush. So while coverage gives them a greater opportunity for success (when teams aren't using three-step drops), the opportunity for a QB to simply step up and avoid the rush is frustrating. This was especially evident when we faced Tom Brady last year.

Oh and great thread everyone. :up:
 
phinfan77 said:
And DCH has a point about what level to pay our players and the precedent a max deal for Ogun would create. I believe the Jets went through this a few years ago with Coles. He wanted a high contract, but the Jets FO was looking at expiring contracts of Abraham and Pennington. They knew if they gave in to Coles then the cost of the two more important players would increase dramatically
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IIRC (if I recall correctly), the Jets intended to match the offer for Coles. But a clerical error nixed the deal and Coles became a Redskin.
 
Muck said:
IIRC (if I recall correctly), the Jets intended to match the offer for Coles. But a clerical error nixed the deal and Coles became a Redskin.
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I believe that was the kick returner (Chad Morton?) -- not Coles.
 
Muck, are you sure that wasn't the KR Chad Morton? The jets matched the offer except for the last year, it went to moderation, and the Redskins won the right to him.
 
I think you're right in that it was Morton and not Coles.
 
ZOD said:
First, let me say that I highly doubt that Wayne H. has stuck his nose into Bryan Weidemeyer's job. I highly doubt that Weidemeyer would stay with this team if the owner chose to do so. It has been widely reported that Weidemeyer's skills are second to none in the NFL.
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That's not how I read that. My take was that Weidemeyer needs permission to spend large chunks of the boss' money -- and I would think 10M qualifies. I don't know what the exact number is, but I would expect at some point the team staff needs to go to the owner for approval on a large deal.
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Gladsadmad said:
I guess most of the NFL would agree with this assessment. No team was willing to give up 1st & 3rd picks to get him. Just a year earlier the Redskins gave up exactly that for L. Coles...so a precedent, no matter how unusual, has been set.
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Good point. O-gun isn't worth it...
 
I dont buy that arguement.What Wayne knows about football you can fit on a pinhead.Like any good businessman you must learn to control your instincts and delegate.Thats why they have Rick to make personnel decisions.I am sure if Rick decides Wale is worth the contract Wayne would sign off on it.

However I would not be surprised that Rick blames Wayne for the lack of progress.Its all part of negotiations.
 
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