The dismantling of the 43 defense. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The dismantling of the 43 defense.

ZOD

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As some of you may be aware, I'm hooked on "schemes" right now. I'm reading and processing as much as I can. I came across an interesting article about three days ago that peaked my interest in that it linked Zach Thomas and London Fletcher. The article was an explanation of the decision of Brian Billick to change over to the 34 defense in 2003. Imagine my surprise when I read that this change was 6 years in the makings. It seems Marvin Lewis and Brian Billick had the 34 in mind for the upcoming 97 season until Ozzy Newsome hit a "paydirt" in the 97 draft and free agency with defensive stars. The results were one of the best 43 defensive units ever assembled.

The explaination for the change-

Prior to the free agency signings and the draft they felt that the crop of defensive ends coming out of college were undersized for the demands of run support. It's a phenomona that some could link to the developement of the pass rush "specialist". Some have chosen to acquiese to the demands of the pass rush by sacrificing the outsides to athletic linebackers. There is a gaping hole in the developement of this type of defensive end and it's inside the offensive tackle. In this 43 attack on the pass rush teams are sending a 265 pound defensive end upfield and filling that hole with a 245 pound linebacker and they are receiving a pounding for the duration of the year.

That is where the article linked Zach Thomas and London Fletcher. The two inside linebackers are two of the most undersized middle linebackers in the league. The article cited their size as one of the main reasons that their play "tailed off" at the end of the season. I got offended. I thought, "not Zach, he's a tackling machine!". But then I checked the stats. I not only checked the two players mentioned but I also dug a little further for players in the middle of a similar 43 scheme.

London Fletcher
Zach Thomas

The numbers do not look startling at first but then you have to contemplate what is on the table for this player. The 43 flex was set up to feature the talents of the inside linebacker. In short it was set up to put Sam Huff's facemask in Jim Brown's chest. Far be it from me to pass judgement but in Zach's case, I don't think 2 solo tackles against NE, 3 solo tackles against Philly, and 2 solo tackles against Buffalo is what Tom Landry had in mind. Throw on top of that the 2002 year that featured 3 solo tackles against Buffalo, 3 solo tackles versus Minnesota (both losing efforts) and December whoas start to get a little clearer. Need more dismantlment? In 2001 after a heroic effort to stop a bruising fullback at the goal line, Zach didn't play in the playoff game that followed.

Indeed Brian Billick and Marvin Lewis have some reason to be speculative of the success of this defense given the talent available to run it. It's not entirely the players fault. In playoff contenders this year you can find evidence of "floundering" inside linebackers and December losses in this scheme.
Notably-
Al Wilson
Scott Fujita
Dat Nguyen
and this years December victim?Robert Thomas

Edit: Actually KC's middle linebacker (not Scott Fujita) is another injury victim. Fujita is the replacement.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/135440/gamelogs

So what did Baltimore do this year and not "miss a beat"? Essentially they replaced that expensive pro bowl roster of a defense with no names.
DE-Anthony Weaver 300 pounds
DE-Marques Douglas 280 pounds
NT-Kelly Gregg 310 pounds
OLB-Cornell Brown
ILB-Edgerton Hartwell
ILB-Ray Lewis
OLB-Peter Boulware

Presently they are taking a college defensive end (Terrell Suggs) and turning him into a linebacker. "Tiger" defensive scheme with a 260 pound Jason Taylor moving to linebacker sound familiar? Even the "vanilla" Dolphins coaching staff is realizing the down falls of the scheme they stand by.

What hasn't been mentioned is something that we have admired from afar. New England entered into September with 9 starters injured. I think eight of them were on the defensive side of the ball. Why does this team not have many players going to the pro bowl? It's the scheme and everyone should have realized that by now. The scheme allows the coach to put the players (skill level realized) in position to attack the QB in a pass happy NFL. The reads become more difficult and turnovers increase. Most importantly the coach is the most stable feature to a team if successful and he doesn't count against the cap "to boot".

They are doing it in Philly, NE, and now Baltimore and having success. Throw in Houston and Pittsburgh as the only other teams using the scheme and all Dolphin fans should realize that the scheme does at the very least make a team dangerous.
 
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The 3-4 defense allows for your DL to get wedged......PASS.

Nobody really plays a 3-4.......it is really a hybrid.......the 4th Linebacker is always like a DE......McGinest, Suggs.........

Do we use something similar? Yes, In Nickel and Dime....(Tiger)
 
I can't remember where I read it, but Jimmy Johnson's defense (which he brought to Miami) is supposed to be built around, or showcase, a very good weakside LB.
 
Zach sure is missing alot of tackles today...and already has gotten hurt a couple of times...nothing to keep him out of a play but, a few things he had to shake off.

Would Eddie Moore be able to play in the middle with Zach next year? We could let Greenwood go, and move JT into that OLB position.... Wild card: Corey Jenkins could be a good back-up and a possible replacement for Jr in 2005....

If we let Timbo go and put Chester in the middle, would Jay Williams and Jeff Zgonina be the right type of player for the ends??
 
Originally posted by TeeMoney
I can't remember where I read it, but Jimmy Johnson's defense (which he brought to Miami) is supposed to be built around, or showcase, a very good weakside LB.

I think you are confused about that article. Are you sure that article (showcasing the weakside) wasn't about the Tampa defense? From what I've read it's all about giving the offense the short yardage in between the sticks and making the sure tackle.
 
Ya know, maybe it was a thread in which DOLPHANMIKE was discussing his closeness with the Dallas/Miami Defense (he's a coach, and has mentioned coaching under, or discussing strategy with a former Dallas Coach).
 
Oh, and ZOD, check your PM's please.
 
Originally posted by inFINSible
Zach sure is missing alot of tackles today...and already has gotten hurt a couple of times...nothing to keep him out of a play but, a few things he had to shake off.

Would Eddie Moore be able to play in the middle with Zach next year? We could let Greenwood go, and move JT into that OLB position.... Wild card: Corey Jenkins could be a good back-up and a possible replacement for Jr in 2005....

If we let Timbo go and put Chester in the middle, would Jay Williams and Jeff Zgonina be the right type of player for the ends??

InFINS,

Yea, the Zach of September sure wasn't on the field today. He's got no legs left. For that matter he had no arms neither. Tim Ryan, a former Bear (now on radio) once made a statement condemning the rigors that Wannstedt puts his players through once the season has began. He condemned him for full pads/full speed practices. I know Dave has supposedly curbed this practice but I find it hard to believe that he's change his stripes all that much.

As for the changes......Nobody is going to change what this team does on the defensive side of the ball. Instead of focusing on making it better in scheme and by cap standards-most if not all coaches would only make slight changes to the defense. The coaches running the 34 believe in the 34 and those that run the 43 believe likewise. I'm just speculating as usual :rolleyes:.

It just seems weird to me that the 95 steelers, 96 Patriots, 98 Falcons, and the 01 Patriots all reached the Superbowl running this scheme and yet only 5 teams (three of which made the playoffs this year) run it today.
 
Originally posted by ZOD


InFINS,

Yea, the Zach of September sure wasn't on the field today. He's got no legs left. For that matter he had no arms neither. Tim Ryan, a former Bear (now on radio) once made a statement condemning the rigors that Wannstedt puts his players through once the season has began. He condemned him for full pads/full speed practices. I know Dave has supposedly curbed this practice but I find it hard to believe that he's change his stripes all that much.

As for the changes......Nobody is going to change what this team does on the defensive side of the ball. Instead of focusing on making it better in scheme and by cap standards-most if not all coaches would only make slight changes to the defense. The coaches running the 34 believe in the 34 and those that run the 43 believe likewise. I'm just speculating as usual :rolleyes:.

It just seems weird to me that the 95 steelers, 96 Patriots, 98 Falcons, and the 01 Patriots all reached the Superbowl running this scheme and yet only 5 teams (three of which made the playoffs this year) run it today.

I'm not sure if it's the rigors of practice more than the fact that Zach just takes a beating every week. with a defense designed to funnel everything to him, he is involved in alot of heavy weight collisions all season long. Compare that to someone like Ricky on offense. While he may get alot of touches and takes a few good hits a game, his main focus is to avoid contact or hard shots. Zach's main focus is to initiate them. Between fighting off lineman and hitting anything that has the ball, I don't think it's possible for him to be as strong late in the season as he is early.

You don't think the Tiger defense is an experiment?? Maybe the "tiger" symbolizes a changing of our stripes??Maybe our coaches will go to the, If-ya-can't-beat'em-join-em school of coaching in the offseason.:lol:
 
Originally posted by Section126

Nobody really plays a 3-4.......it is really a hybrid.......the 4th Linebacker is always like a DE......McGinest, Suggs.........

I could speculate that the 43 is a hybrid of the 52 or the 52 is a hybrid of the 7 man front but I'm not going to do that.

They send four linebackers out on the field with three downlinemen. Then it becomes the Offensive Coordinator and QB's responsibility to guess which side is playing defensive end.

The defense interchanges in New England. I've seen Mcginest or Harrison play your "hybrid" end on one side and Vrabel on the other. Call your plays on that one coach.

Do we use something similar? Yes, In Nickel and Dime....(Tiger)

There in lies the problem. That is an automatic "read" for the QB. We change personell. I would say that it's an automatic read for the offensive coordinator that can see the "package" change as the players run off and onto the field as he relays the play.

Judging from the rush yardage put on the 43 today, the flexibility of the 34 remains a viable option.
 
It seems that you been doing your reading lately. Anyone who knows about football knows how everything is ran and you can always stop overanalizing the whole idea of your threat. Keep learning my brother :eat:
 
Originally posted by inFINSible

You don't think the Tiger defense is an experiment?? Maybe the "tiger" symbolizes a changing of our stripes??Maybe our coaches will go to the, If-ya-can't-beat'em-join-em school of coaching in the offseason.:lol:

Everyone remembers that article about the "tiger" defense but what most have forgotten about it is that it's origins were borrowed from the remnants of the Bear 46.

There is no way in hell I want to see that defense in Miami.
 
Originally posted by ZOD


Everyone remembers that article about the "tiger" defense but what most have forgotten about it is that it's origins were borrowed from the remnants of the Bear 46.

There is no way in hell I want to see that defense in Miami.

maybe I'm not using the right wording, my understnding of the tiger defense is that we have JT in an upright stance(4 LBs) and three down lineman....essentially a 3-4, right?:confused:
 
No, the Tiger is 3 down linemen, 3 linebackers(Seau/Taylor/Thomas), and 5 defensive backs.

It's technically a "Nickel" package.
 
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