The Josh Rosen Saga: Will It Happen All Over Again With The Miami Dolphins?

39wildman

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I don’t think Darnold will be a franchise QB....Allen doesn’t seem to be accurate enough.
W Allen he is more off cam newton type of qb. I think he will be all right in nfl. Bill's need better wr. Too help him out
 

TedSlimmJr

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we’ll see?

Well, you keep saying we'll see. The problem is - we see - then you just continue to act as if you saw nothing and said nothing. You said we'll see when you kept bumping my thread to tell me what a superstar Ryan Tannehill was going to be. You said we'll see when you kept pumping up Drew Lock. I don't know why you keep running around quoting me just to point out you disagree and acting like you know what you're talking about.

You're about as useful as a sundial during Polar night. You don't fool me.
 

39wildman

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I dont know what going happen w Rosen because it to unknown right now. It was good move getting him but we have to see how it wk out. The bottom line we need qb. So who want it.
 

TannDaMan17

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I don’t think Darnold will be a franchise QB....Allen doesn’t seem to be accurate enough.
Agreed, his elongated release and decision making are butt fugly, time will tell.

All these QB "experts" gush over him just because he's young and mature, but I'm pretty sure throwing mechanics (which Josh Rosen is great at) as well as decision making (he a turnover machine) are kinda important at this level, but what do I know :shrug:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000918852/article/sam-darnold-not-tinkering-with-throwing-motion
 
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djphinfan

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I don’t think Darnold will be a franchise QB....Allen doesn’t seem to be accurate enough.
Darnold came on very strong at the end of the year, this on a dysfunctional team with lame duck coaches, and him being the youngest qb ever to start games..

The reason I had Darnold #1 is because of his vision and his playmaking ability..the combination working together, man, it’s special, Gase lucked out.
 

TannDaMan17

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Darnold came on very strong at the end of the year, this on a dysfunctional team with lame duck coaches, and him being the youngest qb ever to start games..

The reason I had Darnold #1 is because of his vision and his playmaking ability..the combination working together, man, it’s special, Gase lucked out.
Not really, out of their last 10 games they only won 1 of them, to the Bills after losing 41 - 10 to them 3 weeks earlier.

He also threw 15 picks in 16 games last year, and 13 picks in 14 games the year before, some of them are comical like these:


And the 1:10 mark here:


Scam Darnold is overrated.
 
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PhxSunFan34

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Darnold came on very strong at the end of the year, this on a dysfunctional team with lame duck coaches, and him being the youngest qb ever to start games..

The reason I had Darnold #1 is because of his vision and his playmaking ability..the combination working together, man, it’s special, Gase lucked out.
Ya I thought Darnold was up there too. Even after the season I think he has a chance to be good.
 

DANTODUPER

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I see Darnold ceiling in Bledsoe, incredible arm talent but very volatile performance.
I see Allen ceiling in Cunningham, very very srong arm and fast legs, but not top accuracy.
I see Rosen ceiling in Brees, accurate and intelligent.

I am a Dolphin fan, so I may be a little optimistic here!
 

ANUFan

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I think the real dilemma becomes what happens if the team is close to another 8-8 record. What do you do then? Of Course this is assuming Rosen is a good reason for that record.
 

Rowdy1972

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He's not on Darnold's or Josh Allen's level. Those two didn't get traded after their rookie seasons. Both would've drawn more than what Rosen brought in a trade if they had been though.

You can't ignore the fact that Darnold beat out Fitzpatrick as a rookie. Rosen still has a lot of ground to make up to overtake Fitzpatrick. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a smart trade for Miami. It was. Whether Rosen ends up being the quarterback for the next 10 years is irrelevant. What it shows is a change in thinking among the Dolphins organization. They understand how to properly value the quarterback position now, and take calculated risks that make sense. While still maintaining a holding pattern to fire more missiles at better prospects in the future.

I've always liked Rosen to an extent, but not on the level of the other two. The reason is because Darnold and Allen are so much more athletic and mobile - in addition to having better throwing arms. They're both able to deal with pressure a little better than Rosen. Behind the exact same caliber of offensive line, Darnold and Allen will outperform Rosen. This became apparent during their college careers.

When Darnold faced Ohio St.'s defensive line in 2017 - USC got hammered 24-7. But this was the game that sealed Darnold's grade for me. He was facing by far the best defensive line in college football. Equivalent to Clemson's defensive line last year or Mississippi St.'s. Darnold was under constant pressure. Could never set his feet to deliver a pass. Yet he was still able to manage to throw for over 350 yards and maintain nearly an 8/YPA clip. When you watched the film, the performance was far more impressive than the stats, despite not actually throwing a TD pass. The skills, talent, and toughness needed to succeed under heavy fire were on display. His eye level never dropped. And this was from a young Redshirt Sophomore quarterback.

This is the game scouts became convinced, and Darnold was able to receive feedback that urged him to enter the draft. The NFL was higher on him than any other quarterback in that draft, despite also being the most inexperienced - and rightfully so. I was too.

However, if you go back to how the college season unfolded from the beginning that year, Rosen was the one off to the hottest start of the three. Passing for 9 TD's / 0 INT's in his first two games against weak defenses in Hawaii and Texas A&M. Meanwhile, Darnold had a 0 TD / 2 INT game to start the season against Western Michigan - a team that ended up being loaded in the secondary with several NFL DB's. Darnold had throw 4 TD's & 4 INT's through his first 2 games, compared to Rosen's 9 TD / 0 INT start through 2 games. Josh Allen had also struggled in a 0 TD / 2 INT game to open the season against a tough Iowa defense. Rosen had gotten off the hottest start by far.

The narrative at the time was that Rosen was easily the most NFL ready quarterback, and the other two were likely going to need to stay in school unless somehow they were to drastically turn around their seasons.

But I took a closer look at Rosen's game against Texas A&M. The one people like to refer to as the greatest comeback in college football. After I watched the film of that game, I posted in the draft forum in my underclassman QB thread that Rosen was literally a few inches away from having the type of games Darnold and Allen had been having against tough defenses.

Sure enough, Rosen went out and put up a 0 TD, 3 INT game in a loss against Arizona less than 2 weeks later. The evidence was already there. This multiple INT game should've happened against Texas A&M. But they kept dropping all the interceptions. Darnold and Allen were having no such luck.

Furthermore, when the news came out about Rosen's own head coach, Jim Mora Jr. making the comment that he believed Sam Darnold would be a better fit for the Browns with the #1 overall pick than Josh Rosen, I thought he was simply stating the obvious. Just not a politically correct thing to do.

I also commented on this particular situation in the draft forum in my underclassman QB thread. If you knew Rosen's background and where he came from as compared to Sam Darnold, you understand why Mora said what he said. He was absolutely right. Because Darnold came from a background where his parents instilled the value of hard work in him. He just had a different mentality than Rosen when it came to football.

I said I believed Mora's comments point towards what my evaluation was in regards to the two anyway. Basically, Darnold could succeed anywhere. But Rosen's best chance to succeed would be to go a team that coddles their quarterbacks. A team like Miami. A team whose owner, fanbase, and culture align more with all Rosen's millenialistic personality traits and outside interests - and are willing to sympathize. A team that gave a QB like Ryan Tannehill 7 years.

Cleveland don't coddle quarterbacks. This was Mora's point. But I had already established this theory in general in regards to the QB class of 2018 through my preparation. Obviously Arizona isn't interested in coddling QB's either.

I know a lot of people completely sacrificed their own opinion of Rosen the instant he became a member of the Dolphins and flipped - and to those I would simply advise to tread very carefully. You're setting yourself up for massive disappointment if it doesn't work out. Nobody here liked him before and didn't want to trade for him. You all probably still don't if you're honest with yourselves. I said I would trade for Rosen if the price was right back when it was a landslide around here that Miami shouldn't.

But there is hope it can work out to some extent for Rosen and for Miami. More importantly, it demonstrates that Miami's front office gets it now. Whether he does or doesn't work out. But there is no way and no how, Rosen will take Miami out of the QB market in next year's draft. You have to be able to stop looking at things like a fanatic and look at it from a different perspective. Take the emotion thinking out of it.

To me, that's been the biggest issue with the Dolphins for far too long. They've made decisions and ran their organization like fans instead of an organization dedicated to excellence and winning. Always making a move a year late when instead you should've made that exact same move a year or 2 years earlier. That's what I see different with this new regime that was missing with all the previous ones.

Rosen is but a small and potentially insignificant speck in the entirety of it all. It's what it symbolizes that is far more significant.
The bolded part is the reason why I dont particularly like Rosen. I dont know the kid from Adam, but his demeanor/mentality seems off which makes sense because the results havent followed his talent since high school.
 

FSU Truth

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If you are in a spot to take Tua, you take Tua and count your blessing that you have a talented back-up for Tua.

As for ROsen...to repeat myself a thousand times...IF Rosen is the guy, you will not be in a place to draft Tua...it is that simple. I thought he was the 3rd best QB last year and I think he would have been the best QB in this years draft. I still think Allen is more athlete then QB and I just don't see him making the jump Wentz did. Inaccurate QB's typically stay that way. Hopefully the team does not fall into the Tannehill trap...this constant..."give him one more year" just delays in inevitable.

If you ask me right now...I doubt the Dolphins starting QB for 2020 is on the roster.
 

djphinfan

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Not really, out of their last 10 games they only won 1 of them, to the Bills after losing 41 - 10 to them 3 weeks earlier.

He also threw 15 picks in 16 games last year, and 13 picks in 14 games the year before, some of them are comical like these:


And the 1:10 mark here:


Scam Darnold is overrated.
Courtesy of CK’s work on some numbers and what I watched.

“Darnold had a far better passer rating (94) from a clean pocket. From that standpoint, Sam was closer to what Baker Mayfield (100) accomplished that way than he was to Rosen (81), Josh Allen (80), or Lamar Jackson (86).

“That's more important to look at with Darnold and Rosen than it would be for a Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen because you always figured the latter two win more when they're escaping the pocket than when they're clean inside the pocket.”

The question with Darnold is whether you saw a learning curve or not. He had a 73 passer rating in his first four games and a 99 passer rating in his last four games. He was sacked about the same but in his first month he scrambled 3 times for 9 yards, whereas the final month he scrambled 6 times for 61 yards.

Darnold's ***ulative PFF grade in the first month was -12.8 and his ***ulative PFF grade in the final month was +10.2...which is an even larger swing than Josh Allen, albeit on a lower number of games (first four/last four as opposed to first six/last six).

“In fact, over the final four games of the season, Sam Darnold had the #2 passer rating in the NFL from a clean pocket”

End quote.

Saying the youngest starting an ever threw 15 picks in 16 games doesn’t have negative connotation imo..It’s quite expected relatively speaking.

I guess the term of the moment is “we’ll see” and see what level he gets to this year..but calling him a scam seems very excessive..Kid I believe proves worthy.
 
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TannDaMan17

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Courtesy of CK’s work on some numbers and what I watched.

“Darnold had a far better passer rating (94) from a clean pocket. From that standpoint, Sam was closer to what Baker Mayfield (100) accomplished that way than he was to Rosen (81), Josh Allen (80), or Lamar Jackson (86).

“That's more important to look at with Darnold and Rosen than it would be for a Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen because you always figured the latter two win more when they're escaping the pocket than when they're clean inside the pocket.”

The question with Darnold is whether you saw a learning curve or not. He had a 73 passer rating in his first four games and a 99 passer rating in his last four games. He was sacked about the same but in his first month he scrambled 3 times for 9 yards, whereas the final month he scrambled 6 times for 61 yards.

Darnold's ***ulative PFF grade in the first month was -12.8 and his ***ulative PFF grade in the final month was +10.2...which is an even larger swing than Josh Allen, albeit on a lower number of games (first four/last four as opposed to first six/last six).

“In fact, over the final four games of the season, Sam Darnold had the #2 passer rating in the NFL from a clean pocket”

End quote.

Saying the youngest starting an ever threw 15 picks in 16 games doesn’t have negative con nation imo..It’s quite expected relatively speaking.

I guess the term of the moment is “we’ll see” and see what level he gets to this year..but calling him a scam seems very excessive..Kid has a lot of talent..
He's talented no doubt, but he regressed his final season at USC from what I've heard, and he played like dog s*** against the Dolphins which were the only 2 games I watched of his last year.

He may end up being good, but imo turnover prone QB's who don't have great throwing mechanics typically don't turn out to be franchise QB's no matter how young and talented they are, time will tell.

I think Baker, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen are better than Scam Darnold now and will be in the long run as well. Baker because of last year, Allen because of the immense talent and Rosen because of the beautiful mechanics, Darnold just isn't for me.
 
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BlueFin

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Well, you keep saying we'll see. The problem is - we see - then you just continue to act as if you saw nothing and said nothing. You said we'll see when you kept bumping my thread to tell me what a superstar Ryan Tannehill was going to be. You said we'll see when you kept pumping up Drew Lock. I don't know why you keep running around quoting me just to point out you disagree and acting like you know what you're talking about.

You're about as useful as a sundial during Polar night. You don't fool me.
What’s your problem? Ego maybe?
 

BlueFin

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I see Darnold ceiling in Bledsoe, incredible arm talent but very volatile performance.
I see Allen ceiling in Cunningham, very very srong arm and fast legs, but not top accuracy.
I see Rosen ceiling in Brees, accurate and intelligent.

I am a Dolphin fan, so I may be a little optimistic here!
These guys were all rookies last year...to say that getting traded after a regime change puts them on different levels is ridiculous...Rosen has as good or better a chance of succeeding as Darnold or Allen.
 
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