The X-factor In The Patriots Super Bowl Win Was... Brian Flores | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The X-factor In The Patriots Super Bowl Win Was... Brian Flores

The one constant of the NY Giants, Cleveland Browns, NY Jets and NE Patriots was that when Belichick was there, they did better. With lots of coaches very highly regarded moving on from the Patriots, and with Brady being injured one year, the team with Belichick keeps winning. I'm thinking the X-factor is … Belichick. Now, I hope you're right. I hope Flores is the exception to the Belichick coaching tree … but I'm not betting on it, just crossing my fingers.

IMHO, Belichick doesn't teach his coaches to duplicate what he does. Here's hoping that Flores is very good at figuring it out from observation, which is a hard way to learn coaching.
 
Digital said:
The one constant of the NY Giants, Cleveland Browns, NY Jets and NE Patriots was that when Belichick was there, they did better. With lots of coaches very highly regarded moving on from the Patriots, and with Brady being injured one year, the team with Belichick keeps winning. I'm thinking the X-factor is … Belichick. Now, I hope you're right. I hope Flores is the exception to the Belichick coaching tree … but I'm not betting on it, just crossing my fingers.

IMHO, Belichick doesn't teach his coaches to duplicate what he does. Here's hoping that Flores is very good at figuring it out from observation, which is a hard way to learn coaching.
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Is it possible to teach someone to be a successful HC? I don't think it is, I don't believe there is a secret sauce. I mean obviously you can learn a lot but there's no way to know what would Bill do in a particular situation because every football game is going to present it's own unique challenges.

If being a successful coach could be taught I gotta assume Don Shula woulda told his son Mike Shula his secret sauce. Mike Shula should right now be a successful NFL head coach since he had/has unlimited access to a top 3 coach of all time. But that's just not how it works all you can do is take what you learned and incorporate it into your own philosophies.
 
Digital said:
The one constant of the NY Giants, Cleveland Browns, NY Jets and NE Patriots was that when Belichick was there, they did better. With lots of coaches very highly regarded moving on from the Patriots, and with Brady being injured one year, the team with Belichick keeps winning. I'm thinking the X-factor is … Belichick. Now, I hope you're right. I hope Flores is the exception to the Belichick coaching tree … but I'm not betting on it, just crossing my fingers.

IMHO, Belichick doesn't teach his coaches to duplicate what he does. Here's hoping that Flores is very good at figuring it out from observation, which is a hard way to learn coaching.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to argue that Belichick is not a good coach. However, without Brady at QB, Belichick has been a below average HC. Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Marty Schotenheimer along with others have fared better with QBs other than Brady that Belichick has coached. And of course Brady has not played under any other HC other than Belichick.

The 2008 season had mostly to do with the AFC East getting to play a cupcake schedule being matched up against the AFC West and NFC West.

Out of those two divisions only the Cardinals had a winning record at 9-7 and that is because they went 6-0 within their division which was horrible. Those two divisions were so bad the NFC West went 13-33 in games outside of their division and the AFC West went 14-32; combined those two divisions went 27-65 outside of their division.

The soft schedule is how Miami went from 1-15 the year before to 11-5 that year. Miami went 7-1 against those two conferences 4-4 against everyone else. The Bills went 6-2 against those two conferences and 1-7 against everyone else.

New England went 7-1 against those two divisions, swept the Bills and split with the Dolphins and Jets to get to 11 wins. Two years later in KC, Matt Cassel put up the same starting record (10-5), made the playoffs and had a much better year passing than under Belichick.

Drew Bledsoe was 5-13 under Belichick at NE and was in his prime. Bledsoe was 32-27 under Parcells and and 26-20 under Pete Carroll in NE previous to Belichick. Bledsoe went to Buffalo and was 23-25 (14-18 under Gregg Williams; 9-7 under Mike Mularkey) as a starter and 12-10 in Dallas (under Parcells) after leaving NE.

Bernie Kosar was 30-17 under Marty Schottenheimer in Cleveland, 12-16-1 under Bud Carson and Shofner, and 11-18 under Belichick.

Vinnie Testaverde went 16-15 over while in Cleveland. Testaverde tenure with Jets that began 3 years after leaving Cleveland was 25-16 (12-2 under Parcells).

As for overall record with and without Brady...

Belichick with Brady at QB
207-60 (18 winning seasons; 0 losing seasons)
30-10 in playoffs (6-3 in Super Bowls)

Belichick without Brady at QB
54-63 (2 winning seasons; 5 losing seasons)
1-1 in playoffs (Wild Card win)

The problem may not be other coaches in Belichick's tree can't duplicate his system. The problem is they can't duplicate his QB, Tom Brady, that has brought him most of his success.
 
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"I'm not going to argue that Belichick is not a good coach."

*proceeds to write a twelve paragraph post explaining why he thinks Belicheck is not a good coach*
 
AdamC13 said:
I'm not going to argue that Belichick is not a good coach. However, without Brady at QB, Belichick has been a below average HC. Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Marty Schotenheimer along with others have fared better with QBs other than Brady that Belichick has coached. And of course Brady has not played under any other HC other than Belichick.

The 2008 season had mostly to do with the AFC East getting to play a cupcake schedule being matched up against the AFC West and NFC West.

Out of those two divisions only the Cardinals had a winning record at 9-7 and that is because they went 6-0 within their division which was horrible. Those two divisions were so bad the NFC West went 13-33 in games outside of their division and the AFC West went 14-32; combined those two divisions went 27-65 outside of their division.

The soft schedule is how Miami went from 1-15 the year before to 11-5 that year. Miami went 7-1 against those two conferences 4-4 against everyone else. The Bills went 6-2 against those two conferences and 1-7 against everyone else.

New England went 7-1 against those two divisions, swept the Bills and split with the Dolphins and Jets to get to 11 wins. Two years later in KC, Matt Cassel put up the same starting record (10-5), made the playoffs and had a much better year passing than under Belichick.

Drew Bledsoe was 5-13 under Belichick at NE and was in his prime. Bledsoe was 32-27 under Parcells and and 26-20 under Pete Carroll in NE previous to Belichick. Bledsoe went to Buffalo and was 23-25 (14-18 under Gregg Williams; 9-7 under Mike Mularkey) as a starter and 12-10 in Dallas (under Parcells) after leaving NE.

Bernie Kosar was 30-17 under Marty Schottenheimer in Cleveland, 12-16-1 under Bud Carson and Shofner, and 11-18 under Belichick.

Vinnie Testaverde went 16-15 over while in Cleveland. Testaverde tenure with Jets that began 3 years after leaving Cleveland was 25-16 (12-2 under Parcells).

As for overall record with and without Brady...

Belichick with Brady at QB
207-60 (18 winning seasons; 0 losing seasons)
30-10 in playoffs (6-3 in Super Bowls)

Belichick without Brady at QB
54-63 (2 winning seasons; 5 losing seasons)
1-1 in playoffs (Wild Card win)

The problem may not be other coaches in Belichick's tree can't duplicate his system. The problem is they can't duplicate his QB, Tom Brady, that has brought him most of his success.
Click to expand...

He was pretty successful with Matt Cassel. I agree it's more Brady than Bellichek, but it's both of them.
 
I'm sorry but if you say Belichick is not a good coach then you lose all credibility instantly. He's been to how many Super Bowls? He was a D coordinator for the Giants for 2 Super Bowl wins as well. He has as many Super Bowl rings as he has fingers.
 
This thread contains a manifesto about why Belichick would be nothing without Tom Brady. Other threads have manifestos about why Brady is a system QB who would be nothing without Belichick.

In the end, nobody can be objective about the Patriots nor have the faintest idea how they’ve been able to dominate the NFL since 2001.
 
AdamC13 killed it with that post. Bravo my friend

Brady is the only thing BB has that no one else has and may never have. Best Quaterback ever and it’s not even close.
 
Adam Strange said:
This thread contains a manifesto about why Belichick would be nothing without Tom Brady. Other threads have manifestos about why Brady is a system QB who would be nothing without Belichick.

In the end, nobody can be objective about the Patriots nor have the faintest idea how they’ve been able to dominate the NFL since 2001.
Click to expand...

He went 11-5 with Matt effing Cassel as his QB. He can clearly win without Brady.
 
AdamC13 said:
I'm not going to argue that Belichick is not a good coach. However, without Brady at QB, Belichick has been a below average HC. Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Marty Schotenheimer along with others have fared better with QBs other than Brady that Belichick has coached. And of course Brady has not played under any other HC other than Belichick.

The 2008 season had mostly to do with the AFC East getting to play a cupcake schedule being matched up against the AFC West and NFC West.

Out of those two divisions only the Cardinals had a winning record at 9-7 and that is because they went 6-0 within their division which was horrible. Those two divisions were so bad the NFC West went 13-33 in games outside of their division and the AFC West went 14-32; combined those two divisions went 27-65 outside of their division.

The soft schedule is how Miami went from 1-15 the year before to 11-5 that year. Miami went 7-1 against those two conferences 4-4 against everyone else. The Bills went 6-2 against those two conferences and 1-7 against everyone else.

New England went 7-1 against those two divisions, swept the Bills and split with the Dolphins and Jets to get to 11 wins. Two years later in KC, Matt Cassel put up the same starting record (10-5), made the playoffs and had a much better year passing than under Belichick.

Drew Bledsoe was 5-13 under Belichick at NE and was in his prime. Bledsoe was 32-27 under Parcells and and 26-20 under Pete Carroll in NE previous to Belichick. Bledsoe went to Buffalo and was 23-25 (14-18 under Gregg Williams; 9-7 under Mike Mularkey) as a starter and 12-10 in Dallas (under Parcells) after leaving NE.

Bernie Kosar was 30-17 under Marty Schottenheimer in Cleveland, 12-16-1 under Bud Carson and Shofner, and 11-18 under Belichick.

Vinnie Testaverde went 16-15 over while in Cleveland. Testaverde tenure with Jets that began 3 years after leaving Cleveland was 25-16 (12-2 under Parcells).

As for overall record with and without Brady...

Belichick with Brady at QB
207-60 (18 winning seasons; 0 losing seasons)
30-10 in playoffs (6-3 in Super Bowls)

Belichick without Brady at QB
54-63 (2 winning seasons; 5 losing seasons)
1-1 in playoffs (Wild Card win)

The problem may not be other coaches in Belichick's tree can't duplicate his system. The problem is they can't duplicate his QB, Tom Brady, that has brought him most of his success.
Click to expand...


Belichick took over a Cleveland team that was outscored by 234 the year before he got there and had a positive 68 point differential while he was there.

Kosar was 3-10 the year before belichick. He was obviously past his prime

Brady did have a lot of drive to be great but belichick is the main driver.

Brady is 5-0 in the playoffs when he doesn’t throw a td pass. I wonder how they won those games.
 
I think it's been a combination of both. Shula had Marino but they didn't win any super bowls together. BB has been a great HC and Brady has been a great QB. In the end it doesn't really matter. We need to stop thinking about the freaking pats and build our team up the right way once and for all.
 
Atila said:
"I'm not going to argue that Belichick is not a good coach."

*proceeds to write a twelve paragraph post explaining why he thinks Belicheck is not a good coach*
Click to expand...
:lol:

Good point. I wrote that way past my bed time.

To expand on my point, Belichick has been a terrific coach with Brady as QB. That's why I am not going to argue he is not a good coach. He has implemented a system and created an environment that has allowed to maximize how great he is. I'm sure there are many coaches that wouldn't have been able do so.

However it is also true that coaches under Belichick have not been able to replicate Belichick's success with Brady when moving on to other teams and Belechick, himself, has not been able to replicate his success without Brady at QB.
 
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