Top Nfl Wrs On Passes Thrown At Or Behind The Line Of Scrimmage

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The Goat, Jul 9, 2018 at 4:41 PM.

  1. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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  2. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Looks like we got a better wide receiver for less money. Nice job front office.
     
  3. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    I wasn't going to go that far. But if they fully intend to use the slot receiver as a screen option, I understand why overpaying for Landry makes no sense if Wilson is an option.
     
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  4. royalshank

    royalshank Not a Game-Changer Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I have to believe we are going to see a ton of those WR screens etc that we saw the last 2 years - just different guys catching them.
     
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  5. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm sure we will see a lot of screen passes. I expect there will be enough other routes opened up by those screen passes to make us a bit less dependent on them.

    I think we'll see at least one play a game where Grant will be sent deep. Because of his speed, it will take less time for the play to develop and if he isn't open, then probably our tight end will be. We would use our wide receivers on slightly deeper routes downfield and keep a RB near the QB for an escape valve. This would give Tannehill a series of prime targets available at different times as the play develops. Grant is going to cause defenses a lot of problems, especially if we occasionally use him as a running back.

    I think we are going to enjoy watching our offence this year. I'm already starting to smile.
     
  6. LoneStarPhin

    LoneStarPhin FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    hence my 11-5 prediction.

    And i think starting out we are going to have a lot of check-down type options for THill as he gets reacclimated. Gase's instructions will probably be just get rid of it if the primary aint there quick. We need to limit the beatings he takes.
     
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  7. ANUFan

    ANUFan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Lots of possibilities! Finally, we have an O on paper that can do everything.
     
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  8. Ruckus45

    Ruckus45 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    With Hill at 3 a lot has to be said for KC’s playbook skewing this list a bit.
     
  9. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So it looks like Landry averaged close to 4.5 yards per target on passes behind the line of scrimmage. That's about the same as a back averaging 4.5 yards per carry.
     
  10. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan

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    Fake screen. Bomb the crap out of 'em baby!

    Dear OL,

    we just need another 900-1200 milliseconds!

    You can do it!
     
  11. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    A little more concise than my paragraphs on the subject, but YES!
     
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  12. dahlmarino

    dahlmarino Hating The Jets With A Passion Since '84

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    Interesting that Landry had 11 more catches on 10 more targets for the 27 fewer yards than Wilson. I saw Hill was #3 on that list as well, and was only 8 yards behind Landry on 11 fewer catches. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was because they were lining up against deeper coverage due to opposing secondaries having to respect the speed on the field, the receiving threat TE, and the game breaking RB. It seems like we have the pieces in place for that. Hopefully we can replicate the YPC in those situations as a result.
     
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  13. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Landry's career yards per target is 7.08... Which isnt even good for top 100(139) for his time in the league... For reference sake, Albert is 79th for the same timeframe...***I filtered for WRs with more than 80 targets during the whole timeframe***


    Albert Wilson individually, was 15th in the NFL last season in average cushion and he was #1 in average separation....
     
  14. Mach2

    Mach2 Active Member

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    I would like to think we won't be doing that as much, and when we do, it's for a different reason.

    You can force the defense into different positioning with that type play, but it's no good when its your bread and butter.

    When's the last time anyone on the team ran an honest to goodness 7 yard slant anyway?
     
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  15. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    The 4.5 average I was talking about was on passes behind the line of scrimage, hitch passes/screens. If you can get that on first down and put your team in 2nd and 5 or 2nd and 6 that's not bad. think you will sdee your share of those types of passes to Wlson, Grant and Amendola.
     
  16. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    Yay more screen passes.


    I'm sure gase has busted a nut of the thought of having Albert and Amendola both is the slot....screen passes for days folks.
     
  17. kevphin

    kevphin Active Member

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    yea we get it you think you know more than Gase
     
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  18. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Oh I know, it wasnt a correction, I was just drawing a bigger picture... But still, you say thats not bad, and it isnt... but there were 5 players listed in the article and out of those 5, 4.5 is dead last...

    Wilson: 160/20= 8 yards/target
    Landry 133/30= 4.43 yards/target
    Hill 125/20= 6.25 yards/target
    Humphries 123/22= 5.59 yards/target
    Tate 198/35= 5.66 yards/target

    Now Im not a subscriber to PFF so I dont know how 4.5 stacks up league wide... Just that its dead last amongst those 5 and that except for total targets and total receptions, Landry dominates nothing...
     
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  19. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I thought he meant that in a positive manner.
     
  20. Sarnics13

    Sarnics13 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    No he didn't
     
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  21. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    As long as the execution is on point, they keep the defense on their heels and gain positive yards, I'm looking forward to them.
     
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  22. royalshank

    royalshank Not a Game-Changer Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Parker has run them but considering his big body / size he hasn’t been particularly effective at them. He needs to step up in a huge way.
     
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  23. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    Aside from the chiefs the other wr. On that list played on really bad teams.
     
  24. Hamhocs

    Hamhocs Well-Known Member

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    We need to trade for Adam Humphries too :rolleyes:
     
  25. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Just don't want Stills to be a blocker.
     
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  26. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Hmmm...I notice they have a pic of Landry, why do I get the feeling if Landry was still in Miami, and Wilson in KC, there would be instead a picture of Wilson up there.
     
  27. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater Not Quite A Shredder Finheaven VIP

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    ...on 3rd and 11. :wall
     
  28. 67Stang

    67Stang FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I still think a big reason why we struggled with screens is because Pouncey gave away a lot of what was going to happen at the line.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018 at 11:30 AM
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  29. DANTODUPER

    DANTODUPER Scout Team

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    And the good news is that you dont need a top 15 QB to make those throws! So it is a genius move by our ofensive guru coach!
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Albert Wilson is excellent as the screen receiver. Jarvis Landry was excellent as the screen receiver. Albert Wilson blocks his *** off when other guys are the screen receiver. Jarvis Landry (generally) blocked his *** off when asked to do the same. A lot of similarities there.

    But here's the difference between the two: Albert Wilson has SPEED, and can run DEEP. Jarvis Landry does NOT, and can NOT.

    Why does that matter?

    The lack of deep speed meant that you could not sub Kenny Stills off the field, because he was the only true speed WR that the team had that they felt they could rely on. They did not start to gain more confidence in Jakeem Grant until much later in the year.

    So we were STUCK with Kenny Stills on the field. Why? Screens are often called by the QB at the line of scrimmage based on a perceived alignment weakness. It's easy to audible into a screen. But that means you don't march your "screen personnel" out onto the field in order to execute a screen. If the defense knows it's coming, it's not hard to snuff out. So whatever personnel you have out there for the screen call has to be the personnel you run a lot of other stuff with.

    Just speaking in broad strokes, with Jarvis Landry lacking speed, DeVante Parker not having the same level of speed or pure running ability as Kenny Stills, there had to be some fear about putting out personnel groupings that didn't include Kenny. And if you don't have Kenny-less personnel out there a whole lot, then you're not going to end up running a lot of Kenny-less screens.

    That changes with Albert Wilson. He can be out there for screen passes. He can be out there to block for others running screen passes. He can be out there to run deep routes. So you can take Kenny Stills off the field. You don't have to live with Kenny's terrible blocking.
     
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  31. DANTODUPER

    DANTODUPER Scout Team

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    How good is Amendola when blocking? Do you see Gase using Drake and Gore as WRs in those screens?
     
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  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Amendola also blocks his *** off.

    Bill Belichick absolutely demands it of a guy like Amendola who plays on the inside. I've talked to O.J. McDuffie about this. It's a must for an inside guy.

    Mind you, both Wilson and Amendola are small. But they block their asses off.
     
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  33. superphin

    superphin close your eyes, see that? no your eyes are closed Finheaven VIP

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    When 2 of the top 5 players in this particular category come from the same team maybe it has more to do with coaching/scheme/play calling no? Andy Reid may not be a great overall coach but he is probably one of the 3 best offensive minds currently in football.

    Maybe you put Landry on the Chiefs and Wilson on the phins and all of a sudden Landry looks as good or better than Wilson as far as yards per target behind the LOS. Maybe Landry's overall yards per target is drastically different had he been drafted by the Chiefs.
     
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  34. where's th'fish

    where's th'fish Scout Team Donator

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    If we want to be a good offense, I doubt speed will make any difference unless we're actually effective at longer passing, like KC were last year. What a year Alex Smith had.
     
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  35. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    This is starting to remind me of previous regimes who can't get out of their own tendencies to take advantage of underutilized talent.

    "We need to get Grant more involved...."

    Screen pass, screen pass, screen pass, lose game......

    "We had some opportunities and we definitely should get Grant more involved..."

    Screen pass, screen pass, screen pass, lose game.

    "He adds a different dynamic to our offense....."

    Screen pass, screen pass, screen pass, lose game...

    "We need to get Grant more opportunities..."

    Finish 8-8.....

    "We need to get Grant more involved in the offense...."

    Let screen pass recipient walk. Sign new screen pass recipient.

    "Grant offers us something unique at WR."

    Training camp.

    "Grant is looking good in our offense."

    Preseason.

    "We are trying to get Grant involved in the offense more...."

    Season.

    "We want to get Grant more touches...."

    Screen pass, screen pass, screen pass.

    Anyone know where this is headed?
     
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  36. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    A number of us, last year, complained about Gase's seeming addiction to screen passes. Worse, screen passes with Stills as a blocker. That will be one of my tests for Gase this year. If he reverts to the screen addiction, I'll have serious questions of him as OC.
     
  37. JahnDho

    JahnDho Well-Known Member

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    Simmer down teapots...Wilson couldn’t play ahead of Chris Conley. He’s averaged 35 catches the past 3 years. He’s behind Stills, Parker and likely Amendola in Miami. I love the possibility of Miami’s offense putting up points like KC did last year and a 10-6 record. The biggest unknown IMHO is KC’s o-line vs Fin’s o line. KC’s was a playoff caliber line while Miami’s was not even close. They were a top 15 line and that’s after circumstances got to them. They started out with a great first month, then injuries started to hit and inconsistent play throughout the year. They had great games but some bad ones too.

    Defense is another thing. Again, KC right there in terms of a playoff caliber defense while Miami was near last.

    I just don’t see enough net positive, if any, change over from year to year to mirror a KC like 2017 season.
     
  38. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This logic makes me dizzy.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    You're going to have some serious questions about him as an OC then.

    He didn't build the unit the way he did this off season so that he could LAY OFF the screen passes. He built the unit the way he did so that they can finally be successful on screens.

    They're paying Albert Wilson about the same amount they're paying Kenny Stills, and Wilson has the same sort of deep speed and deep threat ability as Stills. They will have every reason to rotate the two, make them compete. If Kenny wants to stay on the field as much as he was in 2017 then he will have to block a whole lot better. If not they put Wilson on the field because he can do the same things deep, PLUS be a good screen blocker, PLUS be a good screen ball carrier.

    That also applies to Jakeem Grant, who can also do much of what kept Kenny on the field for 96% of all of Miami's pass plays, and now the coaches have more confidence in him because of the way he finished the year (not to mention all the plays he made in mini camps and OTAs).

    I mean, you said it. Screen passes with Kenny Stills as a blocker were ridiculous because Stills couldn't block his way out of a paper bag. Or maybe I should say, "wouldn't". It's about will and want-to. I noticed that when they called those screens late in the 4th quarter while they're trying to come back, suddenly Kenny Stills would find his blocking ability. It was ridiculous.

    They're trying to change that, and they're not doing it so that Adam Gase can suddenly tear all the screen plays out of the playbook.
     
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  40. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I hope we disagree only by degree. A couple of points. There were times early in the season I could call a screen play 2 of 3 times, and I'm sure others could as well. And I know little about playcalling. Secondly, I don't want to do away with screens. They can be quite effective. But 3rd and 12? And, yes, there was at least one. OK, three points. I wasn't infrequent the D was running to the screen on the snap. That, to me, is an indication of overuse, or, at a minimum, using the same alignment too often. Someone has alluded to Pouncey giving screens away. I can't confirm/refute that and that may be the reason. And, to be fair, the screen seemed to be used less late in the season. Yeah, keep the bubbles, but change the frequency, blockers, alignment, SOMETHING, to make them effective.
     
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