Tua and a SuperBowl | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua and a SuperBowl

Eli is an interesting study. I agree he was super clutch. I’m a fan. There are often debates if he’s H of Fame worthy.

Jim Plunkett won two SBs too
I didn't watch Plunkett myself, little before my time. I grew up in NJ, so I've seen a lot of Manning by default. He's not a true hall of famer to me as far as if that meant really the best of the best, but I wouldn't argue it since there's sort of second level guys in the HoF.
 
It’s nuts that Joe Gibbs went to 4 Super Bowls and won 3 in a 10 year period with 3 different QB’s, none of whom are in the Hall of Fame, or even particularly close to being in it.
 
Don't do that. You have 1,638 passing attempts over 53 games in 4 years. I think that's plenty to know what he is/isn't. If that's not enough to see what someone is you're just being indecisive.



I hardly think that's what the Dolphins did. In fact, I don't think anyone has ever done that for a QB. Such an injury-risk would clearly not be a feasible player to build around. This just isn't a legitimate argument to make even in Tua's situation. This is just hyperbole. Asking the QB to try and protect himself is part of the game. Tua wasn't doing it very well and he improved.

Fact is, we all watched it. Sadly, the concussion he suffered in Cincinnati was predictable largely because he refused to get rid of the ball and took an unnecessary hit. He did not sacrifice production for the improvements he made in being smart. Do not suggest as much. What we saw from Tua was not cowardice or conservatism but rather quick-thinking and deliberate action taken to optimize long-term availability. We WANT that. All teams WANT that from their QB.

Miami has never "built a system to protect" Tua. They built a system to feature his quick throws and to help out a struggling OL while asking him to protect himself better in 2023 than he had been doing prior. To draw some equivalence between a that and a system built to "protect" someone is wrong.



Not sure what stats you're referring to but beware overlooking stats where sample sizes are sufficient and context is provided. In those cases, data is a strong indicator if the particular stat correlates well with what you're looking for (i.e. NFL QB success, longevity, etc.).



I think pretty much everyone is on the same page here that the failure of the Dolphins offense in 2023 came down the lack of productivity from the "#3 option."

Before saying anything it must be understood that a lot of this falls on Mike McDaniel. If Miami adds another weapon to the arsenal they will likely have the greatest armament in the entire NFL. Any lack of production at that point will be a huge knock on McDaniel as an offensive HC, game-planner and play-caller.

I'm of the opinion that Miami is looking for one of a few things:

The 1st choice (the "ideal" or "dream scenario" option) would be a true dual-purpose TE who can both block and catch (e.g. Gronk, Kittle, etc.). That's very hard to find but it'd be the most ideal solution paired with a solid OL. There's no place on the field that such a player wouldn't be a huge advantage. It'd also help eliminate the "tell" associated with bringing a #3 like Berrios on the field who signals a pass play which is Miami's current approach when not using TE Julian Hill who's primarily a blocker. Hill had 6 catches for 48 yards this year, btw. Those expecting him to be the answer are probably dreaming.

The 2nd choice would be to highlight the receiving abilities of the RBs who represent the largest source of yds-to-dollars value on the roster. This is sure to increase anyway but the usefulness of these players depends on other factors. Teams that feature check-down RBs often get a lot out of those players but they also operate conventional drop-back passing games which necessitate better OL play where the passer can hold the ball long enough to let the WRs clear out space for the check-down.

The 3rd choice would be another investment at WR. Of course the hidden benefits of this would also be insurance against a Hill/Waddle injury as well as building in future production when Hill leaves (2026) and Waddle wants big money. This type of player would surely be easier to find in the draft than a truly elite TE (WRs are much more common than dual-threat TEs) but it wouldn't necessarily guarantee better production than what you've already gotten unless the QB can improve his ability to get to the backside and read defenders which is unfortunately kind of a gray area with Tua right now. The film does not let him off the hook when it comes to how he reads the field. I recommend looking at the breakdowns done by O'Sullivan, Warner and even Simms. for this. There's also some real question as to McDaniel's play designs and Tua's ability to get backside (a huge problem when Waddle was consistently open and unfortunately not targeted against Tennessee).
Hey M, Nope, not indecisive. I said that whether his "escapability" translates into the NFL, not his passing. As for the rest, we will see, this permutation has maybe 3 more years to fix "it", whatever "it" is. Remember "one quarter a Whale does not make".

The Ever Statistical VIPER
 
It’s nuts that Joe Gibbs went to 4 Super Bowls and won 3 in a 10 year period with 3 different QB’s, none of whom are in the Hall of Fame, or even particularly close to being in it.
Hey A, I think that is my point, again, I think Tua is good enough to win, but it takes a team. Oh by the way, you should move to SoFla, a predator like yourself would have all the free Iguanas you could eat 😁

The Ever Hoping VIPER
 
So the bottom line here is that Tua is better than many of the Super Bowl winning QBs. Therefore, we can win one with him given the right defense and pieces around him. It's an inescapable conclusion. This thread should open some eyes regarding our QB. I've been more than a little bummed out at the way our season ended and I put a pretty good amount of the blame on Tua. He simply didn't get it done when he had the opportunity. Reading this puts it into perspective and I'm feeling better about Tua going forward. He did get comeback player of the year and lead the league in passing.
 
Hey A, I think that is my point, again, I think Tua is good enough to win, but it takes a team. Oh by the way, you should move to SoFla, a predator like yourself would have all the free Iguanas you could eat 😁

The Ever Hoping VIPER
No doubt. Those Redskins teams were absolutely complete. I’ve brought up the same point you made about the one off Super Bowl QB’s several times over the years, I mean, Rex Grossman started a a SB. I think the biggest issue is that in the salary cap era there’s a lot of luck also required to win without the hall of fame QB, hell, even with one it requires luck, and it requires really nailing the rest of the roster construction. It’s doable, we’ve seen that, but it’s also hard and hasn’t proved sustainable. I think it’s usually one of those, "catching lightning in a bottle" situations.
 
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