Tua and a SuperBowl

[Trade Viper]

I think he’s way overweight to move at the speed needed and I also think he lost his confidence..

So, the player needs to go to Siberia to train and become a lean mean machine.

And then we can start to redesign some philosophies besides the quick strike offense, we need more balance and diversity from the player and offense and Tua getting Speed and agility is Paramount tp that equation.

Hey d, my biggest fear is that one of the following are in Mikey's head.
They are afraid Tua will get hurt if he runs around freelancing, or he thinks Tua is a pocket passer, or there is no need for a mobile QB with a speed system, or all three. If this is the case, I will have to get the doom meter out again.

Redesigning philosophies may not be in Mikey's book.

If Tua needs to work out, he can go here in the winter.

Fanjingshan Temple, Visit Fanjing Mountain Temple in China

Fanjingshan Temple is the two Buddhist temples sit on the peak of Fanjingshan Mountain in Guizhou, China. Visit by checking the facts, location, transportation, maps, popular tours, etc.!

www.chinadiscovery.com

The Ever Hoping For Improvement VIPER

 

[Trade Viper]

If I were you, I would consider opening this up to more than just Superbowl winners as there are a bunch more QBs who led teams into the Superbowl and didn't win. I don't consider it a huge difference between going to a Superbowl and winning it. For instance, Jim Kelly led the Bills to 4 Superbowls but doesn't make your list. Russell Wilson was in 2 Superbowls but only has 1 ring. It so easily could have concluded differently and now suddenly Wilson is on your short list of QBs with two or more rings.

Hey A, the reason I went with winners is because of some saying the Fins will never win a SuperBowl with Tua. He is certainly better the some of the guys on the list.

The Ever Reasoning VIPER

 

[Mello Yello]

Hey d, my biggest fear is that one of the following are in Mikey's head.
They are afraid Tua will get hurt if he runs around freelancing, or he thinks Tua is a pocket passer, or there is no need for a mobile QB with a speed system, or all three. If this is the case, I will have to get the doom meter out again.

Redesigning philosophies may not be in Mikey's book.

If Tua needs to work out, he can go here in the winter.

Fanjingshan Temple, Visit Fanjing Mountain Temple in China

Fanjingshan Temple is the two Buddhist temples sit on the peak of Fanjingshan Mountain in Guizhou, China. Visit by checking the facts, location, transportation, maps, popular tours, etc.!

www.chinadiscovery.com

The Ever Hoping For Improvement VIPER

Do a little research on QB run rates and yds/carry. You'll quickly find where Tua stacks up. He's not a runner. Period. End of Story. The highlight real of Tua running downfield is about 4 plays and half of them are from 2020.

In fact, Tua's run rate has dropped every year since coming into the NFL. His paltry 3ypc shows why. It's a conscious decision to become more of a pocket-based passer (his strength) which is in line with what works long-term in the NFL anyway. Lesson: don't spend time doing stuff you're bad at.

Tua's numbers fell even further this season such that he essentially didn't run at all which made perfect sense considering that health > production was the priority for both the Dolphins and for the player who was essentially in a contract year.

Don't expect Tua to change more than just a bit. He likely bulked up to ensure he could absorb just a bit more contact. Again, protecting his long-term viability as an NFL starting QB.

The simplest assumption is that he's making decisions (with coaches & trainers) based on what is best for him and the team.

 

[Trade Viper]

Do a little research on QB run rates and yds/carry. You'll quickly find where Tua stacks up. He's not a runner. Period. End of Story. The highlight real of Tua running downfield is about 4 plays and half of them are from 2020.

In fact, Tua's run rate has dropped every year since coming into the NFL. His paltry 3ypc shows why. It's a conscious decision to become more of a pocket-based passer (his strength) which is in line with what works long-term in the NFL anyway. Lesson: don't spend time doing stuff you're bad at.

Tua's numbers fell even further this season such that he essentially didn't run at all which made perfect sense considering that health > production was the priority for both the Dolphins and for the player who was essentially in a contract year.

Don't expect Tua to change more than just a bit. He likely bulked up to ensure he could absorb just a bit more contact. Again, protecting his long-term viability as an NFL starting QB.

The simplest assumption is that he's making decisions (with coaches & trainers) based on what is best for him and the team.

Hey M, I based my observation on his collage success, most of his big plays came from running around and creating chaos, at least from the highlights. I am not saying he is a "running" QB, just mobile enough to create some time and wiggle room.

The Ever Chaotic VIPER

 

[AdamD13]

Good post.

People will always have their opinions. We can all look to plays that if they went a diferrent way everything changes.

Brock Purdy is a perfect example. Some thinks he's great, some thinks he benefits from his team.

Why is Purdy in the SB and Miami was a road team rather then home team in Wildcard round.

Tyreke Hill drops a perfect pass that would have went for a TD against Buffalo

AIYUK makes a once in a lifetime circus catch on what should have been am INT.

Both QBS played poorly. Yet ones WR made the play and the other didn't.

One gets credited for leading his team to a SB. The other gets to spend all off season reading or hearing how he's not clutch and can't win the big game

The TEAM NEEDS their QB to play well. As much as the QB needs his players to make plays.

Why is Josh Allen watching the SB at home? Because Diggs drops a perfect should be TD.

SF is not in the SB because of GREAT QB play. They are there because of a lucky bounce on a should be INT ad a miffed punt.

It's a team game. No 1 player is solely responsible for making the SB

So Miami can absolutely win and get to a SB with a QB like Tua.

The should have been an interception you referred to resulting in SF being lucky would have been pass interference if the defender intercepted the pass giving the 49ers the ball inside the 10. The DB pushed Aiyuk to get the separation. Flag already had been thrown.



SF is in the SB because they earned it. Campbell’s decision-making certainly helped.

 

[brumdog44]

Eli Manning sucked and he won two super bowls.

 

[NBP81]

under 2.5 seconds he can only do what he's currently doing which is dropping and firing, but after that is where the offense bogs down it seems, so collectively they need to diversify the offense to do the things i suggested

Look at the names who took the most snaps on this OL this season... It bogs down after 2.5 seconds because by that time the OL had already collapsed...

Tua lead the league in time to throw with 2.36 seconds right?
He also had the worst pocket time in the league at 2.1 seconds...

Imagine that, the time you have before the pocket collapses on average is 2.1 seconds...

 

[fishfanmiami]

@Tua808 see my PM

 

[Mello Yello]

Hey M, I based my observation on his collage success, most of his big plays came from running around and creating chaos, at least from the highlights. I am not saying he is a "running" QB, just mobile enough to create some time and wiggle room.

The Ever Chaotic VIPER

(1) The NFL is not college.

(2) To run around in the NFL and "create chaos" requires you be able to out-run those chasing you, namely LBs and DEs. Tua can't reliably do that because he's relatively slow. This is the unfortunate reality. Fans must accept it.

Tua is agile enough to buy himself a bit of time escaping the pocket and rolling away from defenders but he must always be careful to get the ball out quickly because defenders will catch him faster than they would other QBs. Often times, we see that Tua can't even beat defenders to the sideline.

(3) Historically, that's also how he's been hurt. His ankle injuries, his hip dislocation and his concussions were all caused by defensive linemen getting near enough to touch him.

(4) Like it or not, his injury history is the #1 knock on Tua as a starting QB. The most likely assumption is that he's going to continue to protect himself just as he did in 2023.

Do not expect that Tua is going to keep flirting with that tiger. He's going to avoid it as much as he can. He is far more likely to continue on his present course considering it has produced 2 consecutive seasons in the Top-5. That type of production is what makes an NFL starting QB and NFL starting QBs get paid a lot of money. So I think it's pretty easy to read between the lines.

 

[Trade Viper]

(1) The NFL is not college.

(2) To run around in the NFL and "create chaos" requires you be able to out-run those chasing you, namely LBs and DEs. Tua can't reliably do that because he's relatively slow. This is the unfortunate reality. Fans must accept it.

Tua is agile enough to buy himself a bit of time escaping the pocket and rolling away from defenders but he must always be careful to get the ball out quickly because defenders will catch him faster than they would other QBs. Often times, we see that Tua can't even beat defenders to the sideline.

(3) Historically, that's also how he's been hurt. His ankle injuries, his hip dislocation and his concussions were all caused by defensive linemen getting near enough to touch him.

(4) Like it or not, his injury history is the #1 knock on Tua as a starting QB. The most likely assumption is that he's going to continue to protect himself just as he did in 2023.

Do not expect that Tua is going to keep flirting with that Tiger. He's going to avoid it as much as he can. He is far more likely to continue on his present course considering it has produced 2 consecutive seasons in the Top-5. That type of production is what makes an NFL starting QB and NFL starting QBs get paid a lot of money. So I think it's pretty easy to read between the lines.

Hey M, much of his game in collage was escapability, it is clear by the highlights, again, not that he was running like Cam Newton, just that he could get away enough to buy a few seconds, in fact, on the championship winning pass he did this. Now if this translates to the NFL, we still don't know, he may not have the fast twitch to do it.

I do not think it wise to build a "special" system to protect your QB from injury, give him an advantage, yes, but to ensure he does not get hurt, not so much.

QB stats are at times like Bernie Madoffs "Book", looks great but...........

The issue is, once a team is able to shut down Waddle and Hill, there is not much left. All the opposing D needs to do is disrupt the timing, the same thing happened to the Fins in XlX when Walsh switched to a dime package, at that point Mia could only score 16 points. Really pathetic, and if we look at this year, against the best of the best, there is much of the same.

For me, if they do not address, and go all in on an Oline that is able to run off center, the team will struggle with the strongest, fastest, and best D coordinators in the league.

Oh, one more thing, his Father forcing him to throw left handed did Tua no favors, a neuroscientist gave me a bit of insight into this, dominant vs non-dominant, you will always "lean" toward the dominant side, the brain is hard wired, to go against this as far as movement, well not a high probability play.

Anyway we hope the whole thing gets better.

The Ever Knowing All Sorts Of People VIPER

 

[Trade Viper]

Look at the names who took the most snaps on this OL this season... It bogs down after 2.5 seconds because by that time the OL had already collapsed...

Tua lead the league in time to throw with 2.36 seconds right?
He also had the worst pocket time in the league at 2.1 seconds...

Imagine that, the time you have before the pocket collapses on average is 2.1 seconds...

Hey N, in my mind the Phins have only 2 OLinemen. My biggest fear, again, is that the thinking is, "we don't need no stinking OLine, we can get the ball out in one Plank Time At least that's what last years draft and free agency looked like.

The Ever Concerned VIPER

 

[toostupidtopost]

Tua is a top 15 NFL QB but I have my doubts that he could ever be a Super Bowl QB (at least not without a ton of help).

I was looking at this graph and Tua essentially always needs to be playing with a lead to be good. He is literally a bottom 3 QB in EPA when down by 1 or 2 scores.

Meanwhile, Allen, Mahomes and Stroud are all top 5 or top 10. That’s a problem when they’re all in your division.

 

[Mello Yello]

Now if this translates to the NFL, we still don't know...

Don't do that. You have 1,638 passing attempts over 53 games in 4 years. I think that's plenty to know what he is/isn't. If that's not enough to see what someone is you're just being indecisive.

I do not think it wise to build a "special" system to protect your QB from injury

I hardly think that's what the Dolphins did. In fact, I don't think anyone has ever done that for a QB. Such an injury-risk would clearly not be a feasible player to build around. This just isn't a legitimate argument to make even in Tua's situation. This is just hyperbole. Asking the QB to try and protect himself is part of the game. Tua wasn't doing it very well and he improved.

Fact is, we all watched it. Sadly, the concussion he suffered in Cincinnati was predictable largely because he refused to get rid of the ball and took an unnecessary hit. He did not sacrifice production for the improvements he made in being smart. Do not suggest as much. What we saw from Tua was not cowardice or conservatism but rather quick-thinking and deliberate action taken to optimize long-term availability. We WANT that. All teams WANT that from their QB.

Miami has never "built a system to protect" Tua. They built a system to feature his quick throws and to help out a struggling OL while asking him to protect himself better in 2023 than he had been doing prior. To draw some equivalence between a that and a system built to "protect" someone is wrong.

QB stats are at times like Bernie Madoffs "Book", looks great but...........

Not sure what stats you're referring to but beware overlooking stats where sample sizes are sufficient and context is provided. In those cases, data is a strong indicator if the particular stat correlates well with what you're looking for (i.e. NFL QB success, longevity, etc.).

The issue is, once a team is able to shut down Waddle and Hill, there is not much left. All the opposing D needs to do is disrupt the timing, the same thing happened to the Fins in XlX when Walsh switched to a dime package, at that point Mia could only score 16 points. Really pathetic, and if we look at this year, against the best of the best, there is much of the same.

For me, if they do not address, and go all in on an Oline that is able to run off center, the team will struggle with the strongest, fastest, and best D coordinators in the league.

I think pretty much everyone is on the same page here that the failure of the Dolphins offense in 2023 came down the lack of productivity from the "#3 option."

Before saying anything it must be understood that a lot of this falls on Mike McDaniel. If Miami adds another weapon to the arsenal they will likely have the greatest armament in the entire NFL. Any lack of production at that point will be a huge knock on McDaniel as an offensive HC, game-planner and play-caller.

I'm of the opinion that Miami is looking for one of a few things:

The 1st choice (the "ideal" or "dream scenario" option) would be a true dual-purpose TE who can both block and catch (e.g. Gronk, Kittle, etc.). That's very hard to find but it'd be the most ideal solution paired with a solid OL. There's no place on the field that such a player wouldn't be a huge advantage. It'd also help eliminate the "tell" associated with bringing a #3 like Berrios on the field who signals a pass play which is Miami's current approach when not using TE Julian Hill who's primarily a blocker. Hill had 6 catches for 48 yards this year, btw. Those expecting him to be the answer are probably dreaming.

The 2nd choice would be to highlight the receiving abilities of the RBs who represent the largest source of yds-to-dollars value on the roster. This is sure to increase anyway but the usefulness of these players depends on other factors. Teams that feature check-down RBs often get a lot out of those players but they also operate conventional drop-back passing games which necessitate better OL play where the passer can hold the ball long enough to let the WRs clear out space for the check-down.

The 3rd choice would be another investment at WR. Of course the hidden benefits of this would also be insurance against a Hill/Waddle injury as well as building in future production when Hill leaves (2026) and Waddle wants big money. This type of player would surely be easier to find in the draft than a truly elite TE (WRs are much more common than dual-threat TEs) but it wouldn't necessarily guarantee better production than what you've already gotten unless the QB can improve his ability to get to the backside and read defenders which is unfortunately kind of a gray area with Tua right now. The film does not let him off the hook when it comes to how he reads the field. I recommend looking at the breakdowns done by O'Sullivan, Warner and even Simms. for this. There's also some real question as to McDaniel's play designs and Tua's ability to get backside (a huge problem when Waddle was consistently open and unfortunately not targeted against Tennessee).

 

[Bretaw131313]

Eli Manning sucked and he won two super bowls.

I think he's one of the most clutch QBs of the last 25 years. There's something to be said for how he got it done, and of course derailing that Parriots team is extra cred as well. He's clearly not as all around great as some of his peers but his level of clutch was noticeable imo.

 

[Arnsy]

I think he's one of the most clutch QBs of the last 25 years. There's something to be said for how he got it done, and of course derailing that Parriots team is extra cred as well. He's clearly not as all around great as some of his peers but his level of clutch was noticeable imo.

Eli is an interesting study. I agree he was super clutch. I’m a fan. There are often debates if he’s H of Fame worthy.

Jim Plunkett won two SBs too