Look another Tua hater pushing the long debunked weak arm narrative.
Tua expects to sign extension with Dolphins: 'I believe that will happen'
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The Cardinals game rookie season, Bears/ Lions 2 seasons ago and the Chargers game last year, just to name a few.
Curious. With respect TO QBS like Allen and Mahomes.
How many games did they actually put the team on their back and win the last 2 years?
I'm not talking about games like the SB where a record setting day by the kicker and great defensive play kept them in the game.
But how many games, last 2 years did Josh Allen put the team on his shoulders no matter what the defense did?
Not 1 game did the Bills win last year where they needed to score 30+ to win. The one game they needed to they lost to the Eagles 34- 37.
Not 1 game, this season was Mahomes put in a position where he needed to score 30+ to win a game.
Believe it or not, Tua has shown the ability to put his team on his shoulders more frequently then Allen and Mahomes.
However, Allen and Mahomes have shown to be more clutch the last 2 years.
But, again, when you have a top 5 defense, compared to the 23rd ranked defense, it's a little easier to be clutch.
When your O line gives you less then 2.1 seconds of clean pocket on average, it's a little harder to be clutch
The "knowing the game of football" line is overused IMO. Plenty of people who know the game just fine are still torn on Tua. Is he elite, can he carry the team on deep post season runs? We haven't seen that. Is that because it's other's fault then and he is just fine? Maybe, maybe not. He has put up some monster stats the last two years but is that more because of him or because he plays for an innovative scheme genius in McD and has two of the fastest WR weapons in the league? Hard to say. Jury is still out IMO but that's why I think we need to go all-in on offense this year, build as strong an OL as possible (work in progress), add a playmaker or two (got the TE and WR 3 in progress) and see exactly what this core of Tua, Tyreek, Waddle, Mostert and Achane can really do (hopefully without anymore excuses related to the OL, injuries or refs).
For our #1 offensive ranking and some great stats, when we played playoff teams and a few non-playoff teams (Titans/Raiders) the offense struggled to score. 10 offensive points at Philly, 14 against KC in a game the D threw a shutout in the 2nd half, 19 against the Ravens, 14 at home against the Bills, 20 at the Bills. The #1 offense needs to play more #1 type ball against the better teams if we want to see those deep playoff runs.
I'm all-in building around him this year and our skill talent core but that doesn't mean it will all work out. Time to find out though.
ShuaRino
☠️ Banned ☠️
I don't hate Tua, in fact, I think he's a really good guy. I do not believe he will be anything more than a middle of the road NFL QB. He will consistently lose to Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson and a Harbough coached Justin Herbert. The worst thing the Team can have is a middle of the road QB, especially one that wants to get paid like the Big Boys. We've already been through this with Tannehill. If you've identified QB as the issue, then at least you know what the problem is.
You guys keep bringing up the defense as to why Tua can't score points? They lost both games to KC and the final game to Buffalo, because they could not score points.......the defense was just fine. And I'll ask again, can anyone name a starting NFL QB with a weaker arm? If not, then please do not respond that this a fake narrative.
You guys keep bringing up the defense as to why Tua can't score points? They lost both games to KC and the final game to Buffalo, because they could not score points.......the defense was just fine. And I'll ask again, can anyone name a starting NFL QB with a weaker arm? If not, then please do not respond that this a fake narrative.
ShuaRino
☠️ Banned ☠️
Also, I am not a Troll. I was a long time member of PhinFever, but that has been shut down. Granted it was a smaller forum, but typically folks listened to your posts and did not counter unless they had the facts to back them up. Anyway, I do appreciate those that give my posts some consideration and do not immediately resort to name calling and unsubstantiated claims.
Nobody Said the defense is why Miami can't score points. Nobody
Sure guy. New poster with 3/3 posts talking **** about the owner, QB and defense. We know your kind.
Mello Yello
Club Member
What the Bills woke up to and what the NFL fans will wake to is that Josh Allen is a running QB.
I don't mean he can run. I mean that he is a running QB. He would not be a long-term QB if he couldn't run.
These are his ratings by year:
I'm sorry, but that's Matt Ryan / Ryan Tannehill efficiency and that's not impressive anyone.
These are his rushing totals:
He's a running QB and he needs to be understood in that way. Russell Wilson was a runner. Jalen Hurts is a runner. They don't posses the ability to carry a team as a purely pocket-based passer. They require a team that is strong independent of them and an offense which doesn't explicitly need but can benefit greatly from their mobility.
Josh Allen dominates the AFC East. I don't know how long he'll last being a runner but presumably he'll be producing well for another few years and a thorn in our side until he retires--or until we field a defense that can slow down mobile QBs.
Keep in mind we've historically given running QBs career days: Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields...they all ran wild on our Defense.
The lesson for us when evaluating Tua is that whatever he does, it'd better be something we can win with.
> Pat Mahomes is perfect. That's how he wins.
> Joe Burrow goes on the road and plays the most clutch football ever. That's how he wins.
Running QBs do it by being unstoppable for some short during, usually a great season during which their team is brutally over-powered: Colin Kaepernick on the '12 49ers, Russell Wilson on the '13 and '14 Seahawks, Cam Newton on the '15 Panthers, Jalen Hurts on the '22 Eagles. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson would've both made Super Bowl appearances, too, had it not been for Pat Mahomes--who again--is the perfect QB on the perfect team.
So among that list:
> 4 of those guys got to the Super Bowl.
> 1 won it.
> 2 more were a FG away from winning it.
> The two who didn't make it could've easily had it not been for the greatest ever.
The question for Tua is what makes him special? What can he do and what offense can he be a part of that'll dominate the NFL and beat even the best competition in the toughest environments?
I'm not talking about beating up on some rookie CB in the Baltimore secondary either. I'm not talking about the '22 Bears or '22 Lions. I'm not talking about winning an Opening Day shootout or putting up 70 on Denver.
Can he go on the road like Pat Mahomes and Joe Burrow and beat other Division Champions in front of their screaming fans? Does he have that upside?
Can he at least start winning his Division?
In 5-years as the full-time starter Lamar Jackson has 2 Division Titles, 1 Playoff win at home and 1 Playoff win on the road against the AFC South Champs. While that's not the most utterly amazing record, it is more than respectable and he also has 2 individual NFL MVP awards to his credit which makes him easy to sell to the fans.
Just as a point of comparison >> in 4-years as an NFL starter Tua has 0 Division Titles. His team has finished 2nd and 3rd in each season. He has 1 Playoff appearance--a blowout loss. He is unlikely to ever get something like an NFL MVP. And he certainly doesn't possess the outrageous physical abilities of the NFL's more imposing QBs.
I think it's fine to support whoever you want but at some point you have to make a case for how Tua is going to win. Nothing he's done to this point has made that happen and he's not a Cam Newton type of physical freak that might suddenly lead a team to 15-1 behind an NFL MVP season.
It's not on anyone to refute Tua. It's on him to prove he's the guy. And to his credit, he's been far from bad. But it's still on his advocates to paint a convincing picture of what kind of success we'll get that we haven't yet. How is Tua going to go toe-to-toe with the best in the AFC?
We've got 1 who's perfect (Mahomes), 1 who's clutch as heck (Burrow), 2 more that are physical freaks (Allen & Jackson), 1 young buck making a name for himself (Stroud), 1 with all the physical ability in the world (Herbert) and a bunch of teams who are going to keep drafting in the next couple years.
Nobody thinks Tua is bad but it's getting pretty hard to imagine the Dolphins ever reaching the pinnacle of the AFC continuing with what they're doing now which (no offense) seems to sputter out somewhere around November before being frustratingly unreliable in December and utterly irrelevant in January.
I don't mean he can run. I mean that he is a running QB. He would not be a long-term QB if he couldn't run.
These are his ratings by year:
I'm sorry, but that's Matt Ryan / Ryan Tannehill efficiency and that's not impressive anyone.
These are his rushing totals:
He's a running QB and he needs to be understood in that way. Russell Wilson was a runner. Jalen Hurts is a runner. They don't posses the ability to carry a team as a purely pocket-based passer. They require a team that is strong independent of them and an offense which doesn't explicitly need but can benefit greatly from their mobility.
Josh Allen dominates the AFC East. I don't know how long he'll last being a runner but presumably he'll be producing well for another few years and a thorn in our side until he retires--or until we field a defense that can slow down mobile QBs.
Keep in mind we've historically given running QBs career days: Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields...they all ran wild on our Defense.
The lesson for us when evaluating Tua is that whatever he does, it'd better be something we can win with.
> Pat Mahomes is perfect. That's how he wins.
> Joe Burrow goes on the road and plays the most clutch football ever. That's how he wins.
Running QBs do it by being unstoppable for some short during, usually a great season during which their team is brutally over-powered: Colin Kaepernick on the '12 49ers, Russell Wilson on the '13 and '14 Seahawks, Cam Newton on the '15 Panthers, Jalen Hurts on the '22 Eagles. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson would've both made Super Bowl appearances, too, had it not been for Pat Mahomes--who again--is the perfect QB on the perfect team.
So among that list:
> 4 of those guys got to the Super Bowl.
> 1 won it.
> 2 more were a FG away from winning it.
> The two who didn't make it could've easily had it not been for the greatest ever.
The question for Tua is what makes him special? What can he do and what offense can he be a part of that'll dominate the NFL and beat even the best competition in the toughest environments?
I'm not talking about beating up on some rookie CB in the Baltimore secondary either. I'm not talking about the '22 Bears or '22 Lions. I'm not talking about winning an Opening Day shootout or putting up 70 on Denver.
Can he go on the road like Pat Mahomes and Joe Burrow and beat other Division Champions in front of their screaming fans? Does he have that upside?
Can he at least start winning his Division?
In 5-years as the full-time starter Lamar Jackson has 2 Division Titles, 1 Playoff win at home and 1 Playoff win on the road against the AFC South Champs. While that's not the most utterly amazing record, it is more than respectable and he also has 2 individual NFL MVP awards to his credit which makes him easy to sell to the fans.
Just as a point of comparison >> in 4-years as an NFL starter Tua has 0 Division Titles. His team has finished 2nd and 3rd in each season. He has 1 Playoff appearance--a blowout loss. He is unlikely to ever get something like an NFL MVP. And he certainly doesn't possess the outrageous physical abilities of the NFL's more imposing QBs.
I think it's fine to support whoever you want but at some point you have to make a case for how Tua is going to win. Nothing he's done to this point has made that happen and he's not a Cam Newton type of physical freak that might suddenly lead a team to 15-1 behind an NFL MVP season.
It's not on anyone to refute Tua. It's on him to prove he's the guy. And to his credit, he's been far from bad. But it's still on his advocates to paint a convincing picture of what kind of success we'll get that we haven't yet. How is Tua going to go toe-to-toe with the best in the AFC?
We've got 1 who's perfect (Mahomes), 1 who's clutch as heck (Burrow), 2 more that are physical freaks (Allen & Jackson), 1 young buck making a name for himself (Stroud), 1 with all the physical ability in the world (Herbert) and a bunch of teams who are going to keep drafting in the next couple years.
Nobody thinks Tua is bad but it's getting pretty hard to imagine the Dolphins ever reaching the pinnacle of the AFC continuing with what they're doing now which (no offense) seems to sputter out somewhere around November before being frustratingly unreliable in December and utterly irrelevant in January.
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I suspect they lock Tua up in a long term deal after free agency and prior to the draft.
They could do it sooner if they want to reduce his 2024 cap hit, but they also have the June 1st cap room from the X release which gives them time and flexibility
They could do it sooner if they want to reduce his 2024 cap hit, but they also have the June 1st cap room from the X release which gives them time and flexibility
ShuaRino
☠️ Banned ☠️
This a thread about Tua. For some reason, when making a point about lack of productivity from the offense, the Phin's defense is brought up. Listen harder, before posting.
Again, who stated the offense not scoring points is the fault of the defense?
I see you have become a hypocrite.
You wrote a very moving post about being a victim of others mistreatment and name calling.
Yet here you are. With 1 person who is trying to have a meaningful dialog with you , and youre being a big old meanie.
This is why you may be perceived as a Troll. Just saying
Let’s get this extension done I’m ready for to see lean/jacked making some plays this year. I’m interested in who his QB coach is?? Anyone know yet??
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too bad they couldn't gotten this done before free agency but good things can happen all summer long. I once saw this team sign it's starting QB the 2nd week of training camp and all he did was take them to the playoffs
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This is a great post and I agree with most of it. I think the biggest difference between a Mahomes or Allen and Tua resides in this: the ability to create plays when the play breaks down, ultimately being clutch in critical times. Tua showed massive improvement in 2023 and his future is bright IMO, and when the play was on schedule he was accurate and decisive. Unfortunately it only gets harder to do this in Dec/Jan because:
- stakes are higher
- teams adjust
- players invariably raise effort level
- every game is magnified
The sheer ability of the top QB's to create impact chunk plays when the play breaks down is the difference. Tua is severely limited in this area, and when defenses gameplan to shut down the tendencies, he struggles mightily. This affects Tua's "Clutch Factor", which is the innate ability for a QB to will his team to victory, will his offense to make plays, and win the game in the 4th quarter. While we have seen the occasional times that Tua does this, we haven't seen it consistently especially late in the season. This is the difference between GOOD and GREAT, and Tua needs to find a way to get there.
Can't teach speed...
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