Tua is not the issue! | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua is not the issue!

I've been hearing that the Online has been the problem for YEARS...and it has been...but the Qbs we've had haven't been exactly rock stars either....Tannehill did do better but he was also sent to a completely different situation... For the most part everyone else went somewhere else and was the same or worse.

I'm just saying that no one will ever have a super clean pocket 24/7...the Superbowl Mahomes comparison is a good example...so in the end a great QB will find a way to win more than lose...when Henne was QB oh man did we have people dedicated to defending him...Tannehill still did too but holy moly did Henne have some fans going crazy...

In the end we can't control it because unless one of us works within the organization in a personnel capacity its out of our hands...
 
normaniii said:
Agree with most of comments, but my post was not solely based on just the 'clean pocket'. It was this, together with him having no weapons to throw to and still being successful.

My post was more, protecting him should be the priority, over gathering better weapons.

When you consider the started and depth at wr, compared to Oline, surely there can be no argument that Oline should have been prioritised
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Or maybe they thought they had the Oline situation worked out- now we’re back to scouting, drafting, identifying talent, developing players- these issues run deep in this organization- identifying talented players and placing them in systems and situations to succeed- this I think is the bulk of the problem
 
While I certainly think the Tua haters are obnoxiously opinionated about the guy, they are correct in some aspects. That being said, it is absolutely asinine to keep throwing this kid under the bus with less than stellar talent on the oline. And no..Brissett did not look like the better QB no matter how misaligned haters are.

I hate making excuses for Tua. I wish he's shut the loud haters up. But until he does, it'll be what it is.
 
GhostArmOfMarino said:
The NFL really isn't about what you can do with a clean pocket.

1) Almost every QB ever drafted including Ryan Leaf and John Beck has enough talent to play with a clean pocket, Id be willing to bet my life on the fact that most starting QB put up similar numbers with a clean pocket. There will be outliers of course like any statistic.

2) A consistently clean pocket is rare in the modern NFL for most teams. There is almost always some form of pressure on passing downs regardless of which game you watch.

2B) You need an absolutely elite offensive line to ensure a consistently clean pocket, which ties back to #1 because at that point it barely matters who the QB is.

The modern NFL requires either a QB smart enough to read the defense before the snap and right at the snap to get the ball out quickly, think Tom Brady, or the ability to manipulate the pocket consistently, think Mahomes.
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Gotta say this is wrong- there are many QBs that struggle to read a defence as well…. And the fact that you bet your life on it???dude- although you did say there will be outliers… but why would you bet your life if you knew there would but outliers?? Like you know you’re gonna die but you would still bet your life….man…sounds like your playing with fire to me… careful with your future posts
 
gfish24 said:
for sure…. Let’s give up on the kid, eventually trade him for peanuts and watch him go elsewhere with a competent staff and become a Pro Bowler… happened with Tannehill… 7 years to get a decent line and running game put together to help Tannehill succeed, and we couldn’t do it… now he’s putting up great numbers and led his team to the playoffs… coaching is the issue… Tua has more potential than Tannehill… health and durability are significant concerns, but this team has failed to provide him with the tools to succeed… and in turn evaluate- so here we are, flirting with a sex offender to be our QB… couldn’t write the **** for a ****ing movie… it’s ridiculous
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All fans want anymore is instant gratification. If your team drafts a guy in the 1st round that isn’t a pro bowler after 1 year he is a bust. Half the people here (seemingly) wanted us to stay at 3 and draft Wilson, Fields, Jones or Lance.

After 3 games: Lawrence (the most bestest amazing prospect ever) has completed 54% of his passes for 5 TDs and 7 INTs; Wilson has completed 55% of his passes for 2 TDs and 7 INTs; and Jones (ever the game manager) has completed 68% of his passes for 2 TDs and 3 INTs. Oh yea, their teams are a combined 1-8 as well. Fields made his first start and went 6/20 for 68 yards (a game statistically worse than any Tua has had). Lance is riding the bench in SF.

I have no issue with people who don’t like Tua, but it’s crazy to consider him part of the problem when the team does not put him in a position to succeed. By that very idea any QB we start is part of the problem if they can’t carry an entire offense on their back each week.

As for Watson…the dude is a PR nightmare waiting to happen. The NFL just brought female refs and coaches into the league; I can’t imagine they will look favorably on his situation when it’s plastered on the headlines of every news outlet for weeks (if he’s traded).
 
gfish24 said:
Gotta say this is wrong- there are many QBs that struggle to read a defence as well…. And the fact that you bet your life on it???dude- although you did say there will be outliers… but why would you bet your life if you knew there would but outliers?? Like you know you’re gonna die but you would still bet your life….man…sounds like your playing with fire to me… careful with your future posts
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Lol You're being too literal!

What I meant was obviously some QB will perform better or worse and I wouldn't dispute that, but that generally if you take a handful of NFL QBs or just the average starter they are going to have solid numbers in a clean pocket. That isn't what separates a QB from his peers.
 
normaniii said:
Let's not overthink this:-

2020
When Tagovailoa had a clean pocket - 99.3 passer rating with 11 touchdowns and three interceptions.

Herbert had a 97.7 rating with 18 touchdowns and eight interceptions with a clean pocket.

Surprisingly similar, but what also should be noted, Tua for majority of year was throwing to a much weaker set of WRs.

Why then did we overthink the off-season?

Tua has proven to be supcetable to injuries - let's protect him
Tua has proven, with time he can be very good - let's protect him
Quality OT's in the NFL are far more scarce than quality WRs

With all this info in off-season, why did we not then go for a Chiefs style makeover?

This was a strong OT and C draft. It's not like we didn't already have a strong D.

Just with 1st 3 picks, Sewell, Darrisaw, Landon Dickerson.

You can pick your own favourites, but the drafting of a WR, DE and safety with 3 of the first 4 picks is ridiculous.

Protect Tua, keep same D, should have been priority no. 1 2021
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If we would have invested more into the O line instead of drafting Waddle and signing Fuller then we would be complaining about how our WRs can't seperate or just suck. I'm fine with the Waddle pick, the Fuller signing never made sense to me, should have spent money on a veteran O lineman. It seems like Grier has been too frugal with the O line and I'm glad we tried to build through the draft and that's what we all wanted to do.
 
normaniii said:
Let's not overthink this:-

2020
When Tagovailoa had a clean pocket - 99.3 passer rating with 11 touchdowns and three interceptions.

Herbert had a 97.7 rating with 18 touchdowns and eight interceptions with a clean pocket.

Surprisingly similar, but what also should be noted, Tua for majority of year was throwing to a much weaker set of WRs.

Why then did we overthink the off-season?

Tua has proven to be supcetable to injuries - let's protect him
Tua has proven, with time he can be very good - let's protect him
Quality OT's in the NFL are far more scarce than quality WRs

With all this info in off-season, why did we not then go for a Chiefs style makeover?

This was a strong OT and C draft. It's not like we didn't already have a strong D.

Just with 1st 3 picks, Sewell, Darrisaw, Landon Dickerson.

You can pick your own favourites, but the drafting of a WR, DE and safety with 3 of the first 4 picks is ridiculous.

Protect Tua, keep same D, should have been priority no. 1 2021
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I agree with much of this, but the way to have fixed the offensive line was to bring in quality experienced linemen, not to throw youth and more inexperience at it. The line desperately needs a quality veteran presence to stabilize the current mess. They should have brought in at least two middle to high end free agents to fix this thing. You can't have all of this youth and inexperience being coached by inexperienced offensive coaches. It's a recipe for disaster.
 
GhostArmOfMarino said:
The NFL really isn't about what you can do with a clean pocket.

1) Almost every QB ever drafted including Ryan Leaf and John Beck has enough talent to play with a clean pocket, Id be willing to bet my life on the fact that most starting QB put up similar numbers with a clean pocket. There will be outliers of course like any statistic.

2) A consistently clean pocket is rare in the modern NFL for most teams. There is almost always some form of pressure on passing downs regardless of which game you watch.

2B) You need an absolutely elite offensive line to ensure a consistently clean pocket, which ties back to #1 because at that point it barely matters who the QB is.

The modern NFL requires either a QB smart enough to read the defense before the snap and right at the snap to get the ball out quickly, think Tom Brady, or the ability to manipulate the pocket consistently, think Mahomes.
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How many young QBs would be good dealing with the type of chaos Miami has had so far on the offensive line? Hell, even the most talented QB on the planet right now, Patrick Mahomes, melted down in the Super Bowl last year because his offensive line was in such disarray. That's why Kansas City completely overhauled their offensive line this offseason so nothing like that would ever happen again. You are seeing all of the QBs that were drafted in the first round this year self destructing every week and I dare say none of them have a worse situation in front of them than Miami has had since the start of the season. The way to develop a young QB is not to throw him into a tornado of chaos and hope he survives it. The way to do it is to give him stability until he gains experience and learns how defenses are pressuring him and how he has to adjust to it in order to have success.
 
normaniii said:
Agree with most of comments, but my post was not solely based on just the 'clean pocket'. It was this, together with him having no weapons to throw to and still being successful.

My post was more, protecting him should be the priority, over gathering better weapons.

When you consider the started and depth at wr, compared to Oline, surely there can be no argument that Oline should have been prioritised
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The priority should be both.
 
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