Tua Tagovailoa reportedly doing drills to make himself faster and lose weight says trainer | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua Tagovailoa reportedly doing drills to make himself faster and lose weight says trainer

RastaMan407 said:
I see this as a twofold situation. I think most can agree. There has to be a winner and a loser. Just because a QB has a winning or losing record, doesn’t necessarily highlight the individual play of the QB. When it comes Tua specifically his play hasn’t been good which is the driving factor. We can talk about all the bad playcalling, drop passes, or McDaniel didn’t run the ball enough. When the ball was in his hands for the last opportunity, he always came up short. We’ve had a good sample size for the last two seasons of his play down the stretch, and he didn’t deliver.
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Seems to consistently pull out the game in these situation 2 times per season. But that doesn't correlate to your always comes up short narrative.
 
RastaMan407 said:
What is done is done and you can't come back from it. So you have to move on. As much as we hate drops they are part of the game, just like missing a wide-open receiver, these things happen, it's frustrating but it will happen over and over again. I am specifically pointing to the games, where the ball is in Tua's hands to deliver and he comes up short.

As for Allen getting credit who cares?? I clearly remember during Tua's first 2 seasons when the defense was the identity of the team and making plays putting the offense in good situations, didn't Tua not get the credit for team wins? Look at the Dallas game, where the offense was mediocre and the key player of that game was Jason Sanders but who got the credit? Like you said that is just the way it is.
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Sure, what's done is done when it suits the narrative right?

Like I said, even elite QBS don't make plays all game. In those tough games it's normally 1 or 2 drives that the QB suddenly makes plays.

Again, Mahomes is a perfect example in the SB. He stunk up the joint for 3 quarters. It wasn't until the last couple drives he suddenly looked like Mahomes.

It's comparable to thr 2nd game against the Bills. Tua did not play good for 3 quarters. Then he makes perfect throws. Hill drops a 1st down pass. Perfect throw. Drops it. Phinz punt. Next drive. Tua throws a perfect pass that Hill drops again, that would have been a TD.

Tuas stats would have been similar to Mahomes stats had Hill just caught the ball.

Some of you act like these elite QBS just keep making play after play after play against good teams. It's just completely false.

Tua needs to play better, no doubt. But the #1 WR also needs to catch the dang ball.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Sure, what's done is done when it suits the narrative right?

Like I said, even elite QBS don't make plays all game. In those tough games it's normally 1 or 2 drives that the QB suddenly makes plays.

Again, Mahomes is a perfect example in the SB. He stunk up the joint for 3 quarters. It wasn't until the last couple drives he suddenly looked like Mahomes.

It's comparable to thr 2nd game against the Bills. Tua did not play good for 3 quarters. Then he makes perfect throws. Hill drops a 1st down pass. Perfect throw. Drops it. Phinz punt. Next drive. Tua throws a perfect pass that Hill drops again, that would have been a TD.

Tuas stats would have been similar to Mahomes stats had Hill just caught the ball.

Some of you act like these elite QBS just keep making play after play after play against good teams. It's just completely false.

Tua needs to play better, no doubt. But the #1 WR also needs to catch the dang ball.
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Fine. Tell me what happened in the last Bills game? What ball TD was dropped? Tell me what happened in the Titans game, what TD was dropped? These are games where we had a chance to tie or win the game. The games that you're talking about they were not close, I'm talking about 1-score games.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Sure, what's done is done when it suits the narrative right?

Like I said, even elite QBS don't make plays all game. In those tough games it's normally 1 or 2 drives that the QB suddenly makes plays.

Again, Mahomes is a perfect example in the SB. He stunk up the joint for 3 quarters. It wasn't until the last couple drives he suddenly looked like Mahomes.

It's comparable to thr 2nd game against the Bills. Tua did not play good for 3 quarters. Then he makes perfect throws. Hill drops a 1st down pass. Perfect throw. Drops it. Phinz punt. Next drive. Tua throws a perfect pass that Hill drops again, that would have been a TD.

Tuas stats would have been similar to Mahomes stats had Hill just caught the ball.

Some of you act like these elite QBS just keep making play after play after play against good teams. It's just completely false.

Tua needs to play better, no doubt. But the #1 WR also needs to catch the dang ball.
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This is the point I am making. He stepped up when it mattered the most. It's same reason why half of the fanbase doesn't believe he is worth 50M a season. So you just proved my point.
 
Fins1971 said:
The thing they don’t mention is Mahomes is the about the only QB with winning record against winning teams.

Dak Prescotts 22-25
Josh Allen 17-17
Lamar Jackson 14-14
Aaron Rodgers 41-44
Kirk Cousins 14-43
Justin Herbert 7-14
Desh Watson 7-19
J. Goff 14-17
M Stafford 11-72
B. Mayfield 7-21
M. Ryan 33-63
D. Jones 3-13
K. Murray 3-11
D. Carr. 14-45

Heck even Brady, Brees and Manning had the same issue.

View attachment 166001
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This graphic is not showing that Brady, Manning, Rodgers and Brees had losing records against winning teams. It is showing how many of their wins came against teams with a winning record.

Including playoffs, Brady was 286-97. 113 of those were against winning teams and 173 were against losing teams. If 113 of those were against winning teams, then even if all of his losses were to winning teams (which we know isn't the case), he'd be 113-97 against winning teams. His record against winning teams is much better than that. I would imagine the same goes for the other QB's.
 
RastaMan407 said:
This is the point I am making. He stepped up when it mattered the most. It's same reason why half of the fanbase doesn't believe he is worth 50M a season. So you just proved my point.
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No u missed it. Tua did step up.

The diferrence was Mahomes WR caught the ball.

Tuas didn't.

Tua did not step up, at any point against the Titans.
 
Dolphins3 said:
Marino's statistics had a precipitous dropoff in 1985 compared to 1984 (still very good). I was stating Lawrence had a statistical dropoff in year 3 (as did Marino). That's all.
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I think the difference and disparity with this comparison lays in the fact that Marino put up what was the greatest season for a quarterback in NFL history (at that time) in 1984. Rarely is a record year replicated the year after. I wouldn’t refer to that as “regression.”
 
anthonyvfrancis1989 said:
I think the difference and disparity with this comparison lays in the fact that Marino put up what was the greatest season for a quarterback in NFL history (at that time) in 1984. Rarely is a record year replicated the year after. I wouldn’t refer to that as “regression.”
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I agree. I qualified it in another post by stating 1985 was still a good year for him (though the numbers droped off). It was a regression in statistics, but still very good (I think he had 31 TD and 20 int).

Just to pick on your response a little, you can remove the "(at that time)". It is still the greatest single season in NFL history. I will still argue it is the greatest single season in NFL history statistically when adjusted for eras. For raw statistics, it isn't, but that's another thread for another time.

I do agree overall with your premise-- it was a record breaking year followed by a non-record breaking year. That doesn't make it bad at all by any means. I posted that only to show that Marino had a drop off in year 3 as well . Somebody posted about Trevor Lawrence's dropoff in year 3. I have a 1986 Dolphins media guide. In that, there is a story on Marino and they speak of his statistical dropoff in 1985 from 1984. It wasn't treated like the sky was falling.
 
RastaMan407 said:
Which game are you referring too?
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Specifically, the Philly game and the 2nd Buffalo game ( this game on back to back drives Hill dropped a 3rd down conversion and a perfectly thrown pass that he'd still be running had he caught it. Both in the 4th.

Then for comparisons sake.

Mahomes did NOT play better then Tua in the regular season game. His defense scoring a TD was the diferrence.

In the 2nd Buffalo game, Allen did Not play better then Tua. The diferrence was a punt return for a TD and a helmet bounce TD.

The comparisons are there, other QBS are mentioned simply because some claim Tua did not step up in big games.

Well, in the head to head matchups. Tua performed just as well as Mahomes and Allen. The diferrence was a defensive TD/ SPECIAL TEAMS TD and a lucky bounce. None of that was QB play.

Similarly with the Philly game. If Tyreke catches that TD pass, again Tua pretty much played equal to the other QB.

First Buffalo game
Allen outplayed Tua for sure.
But Tua had a solid game.

3 out of those 4 games, none of them were decided by better QB play.

Baltimore- Again, 2 dropped TDS. Tua didn't have a bad day, but when your team is dropping TD passes, you're not winning many games when the defense gives up 50+.

Those were the 5 of the 7 biggest games this year.

In 3 of them, his WRS let him down when he made the plays or throws.

In 2, he was outperformed by the other QB but Tua still had a solid to good outing.

The Tennessee game, at no point did Tua make any plays to win that game.

Dallas? Tua did what was needed to win that game and had a solid outing.

He diferrence between winning against Buffalo and losing is a dropped TD pass and a punt return TD.

The diferrence between winning and losing against KC is a defensive TD.

The diferrence between Miami taking the East and finishing 2nd was a Toney offsides penalty.

None of those were QB related.

Again, one QBS WRS dropped the pass and the other didn't.

Again, this does no absolve Tua of poor play.

Buy, at the end of the day, these ELITE QBS are not making play after play like some here seem to think they are
They don't play great every game even if they win.

The problem is Tua doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, like others do, because unlike the other QBS, Miami cannot win games, unless their QB plays good
 
Fins1971 said:
View attachment 166597

Seems to consistently pull out the game in these situation 2 times per season. But that doesn't correlate to your always comes up short narrative.
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Okay, I will give him the Dallas game even though it was Jason Sanders who was the key player for that game. Great comeback against the Ravens and he was lights out the Chargers. However, my post specifically mentioned down the stretch, the last 2 seasons the games highlighted above were the 2nd game of 2022 and 1st in 2023.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Specifically, the Philly game and the 2nd Buffalo game ( this game on back to back drives Hill dropped a 3rd down conversion and a perfectly thrown pass that he'd still be running had he caught it. Both in the 4th.

Then for comparisons sake.

Mahomes did NOT play better then Tua in the regular season game. His defense scoring a TD was the diferrence. - S

In the 2nd Buffalo game, Allen did Not play better then Tua. The diferrence was a punt return for a TD and a helmet bounce TD.

The comparisons are there, other QBS are mentioned simply because some claim Tua did not step up in big games.

Well, in the head to head matchups. Tua performed just as well as Mahomes and Allen. The diferrence was a defensive TD/ SPECIAL TEAMS TD and a lucky bounce. None of that was QB play.

Similarly with the Philly game. If Tyreke catches that TD pass, again Tua pretty much played equal to the other QB.

First Buffalo game
Allen outplayed Tua for sure.
But Tua had a solid game.

3 out of those 4 games, none of them were decided by better QB play.

Baltimore- Again, 2 dropped TDS. Tua didn't have a bad day, but when your team is dropping TD passes, you're not winning many games when the defense gives up 50+.

Those were the 5 of the 7 biggest games this year.

In 3 of them, his WRS let him down when he made the plays or throws.

In 2, he was outperformed by the other QB but Tua still had a solid to good outing.

The Tennessee game, at no point did Tua make any plays to win that game.

Dallas? Tua did what was needed to win that game and had a solid outing.

He diferrence between winning against Buffalo and losing is a dropped TD pass and a punt return TD.

The diferrence between winning and losing against KC is a defensive TD.

The diferrence between Miami taking the East and finishing 2nd was a Toney offsides penalty.

None of those were QB related.

Again, one QBS WRS dropped the pass and the other didn't.

Again, this does no absolve Tua of poor play.

Buy, at the end of the day, these ELITE QBS are not making play after play like some here seem to think they are
They don't play great every game even if they win.

The problem is Tua doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, like others do, because unlike the other QBS, Miami cannot win games, unless their QB plays good
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I'm sure we already agreed what's done is done. I only focus on what he can control! In case someone drops a pass, it's not his fault and you can make an argument if the game ended with 1 score. Philly game is frustrating because of the refs one-sided, I rarely make excuses but it has to be acknowledged.

I specifically mentioned one-score games. When the game is coming down to the wire, thinking about what could have been doesn't change the outcome. When you talk about the KC game, did he not miss Cedric Wilson on a wide-open TD pass on the last drive against the Kansas City Chiefs by underthrowing him, and did he not fumble the ball on the last play against the Chiefs? You pointed out the drops in other games but left out the things he did to hurt the team or contribute to the loss.


The defense caused 3 turnovers against Buffalo to help the offense. The only thing that punt return TD did was tie the game up 14-14. Tua had 2 chances to score afterward. When it counted the most, Josh Allen's legs picked up 2 first downs, and the defense saved the day on the third fourth and inches.

Every QB goes through adversity and Tua, just has to do a better job at pushing himself through those times, it only reinforces the narrative that EVERYTHING around him needs to be perfect for him to succeed and until he proves he can get it done will never get the benefit of the doubt.
 
RastaMan407 said:
I'm sure we already agreed what's done is done. I only focus on what he can control! In case someone drops a pass, it's not his fault and you can make an argument if the game ended with 1 score. Philly game is frustrating because of the refs one-sided, I rarely make excuses but it has to be acknowledged.

I specifically mentioned one-score games. When the game is coming down to the wire, thinking about what could have been doesn't change the outcome. When you talk about the KC game, did he not miss Cedric Wilson on a wide-open TD pass on the last drive against the Kansas City Chiefs by underthrowing him, and did he not fumble the ball on the last play against the Chiefs? You pointed out the drops in other games but left out the things he did to hurt the team or contribute to the loss.


The defense caused 3 turnovers against Buffalo to help the offense. The only thing that punt return TD did was tie the game up 14-14. Tua had 2 chances to score afterward. When it counted the most, Josh Allen's legs picked up 2 first downs, and the defense saved the day on the third fourth and inches.

Every QB goes through adversity and Tua, just has to do a better job at pushing himself through those times, it only reinforces the narrative that EVERYTHING around him needs to be perfect for him to succeed and until he proves he can get it done will never get the benefit of the doubt.
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Dude, GRYPHONK is going on day 4 with no sleep. GRYPHONK is tired.

GRYPHONK doesn't really know what he's typing or responding to haha.

I will just address the last part. I think. Tua has proven he doesn't need everything to be perfect.

However, yes, when he has the chances, he needs to do better to push through I'll agree there.

I'm just not worries because prior to last year, it really wasn't an issue.

If he goes another season with that issue, then I'll worry haha. But prior to last year he thrived on those situations.

Hopefully the concussions didn't do an unrepairable mental block to him
 
GRYPHONK said:
Dude, GRYPHONK is going on day 4 with no sleep. GRYPHONK is tired.

GRYPHONK doesn't really know what he's typing or responding to haha.

I will just address the last part. I think. Tua has proven he doesn't need everything to be perfect.

However, yes, when he has the chances, he needs to do better to push through I'll agree there.

I'm just not worries because prior to last year, it really wasn't an issue.

If he goes another season with that issue, then I'll worry haha. But prior to last year he thrived on those situations.

Hopefully the concussions didn't do an unrepairable mental block to him
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I understand what you're saying. However, I just want to mention something about the Baltimore game, even though Tyreek dropped that TD pass we were still leading 10-7 and the game was still manageable right up until the 2-minute mark. Do you know what happened? Tua threw the ball into double coverage which led to an INT that was a pivotal moment in the game.

In fact, in his last 2 regular season games he threw 4 INT and in all 4 instances, he threw the ball into double coverage. These are actions he has full control of and these mistakes Tua is making are a result of his own decisions at crucial times of the game. Hopefully he improves in this area.
 
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