Tua's Next. Be prepared. | Page 74 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua's Next. Be prepared.

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djphinfan said:
I don’t think anyone thinks anything less of Dan because he didnt win a Super Bowl

He’s pretty much universally on mt Rushmore
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I don't think that's really true outside of Phinland.

Sure, everyone acknowledges his records, comebacks, sheer "will", etc., most do not put him in the top four or five all time. I think that would not be the case if he had a couple Championships.

I have read enough "Top QB of All Time" lists and articles, and had enough conversations with fans not affiliated with the Dolphins to recognize the way Dolphins fans perceive Dan is not how a majority of outsiders perceive him. It is also true that much of it comes with disclaimers about not winning a SB.

JMO, and it really makes no difference. He's definitely a first ballot HOF QB.

If he played today with good pass pro, he would own the record books again. Would he win rings? Not so sure about that.
 
Mach2 said:
I have mixed feelings about that. I do think impatiently changing core players and staff every two or three years does not allow for consistency or enough time to really "build" a legitimate perennial contender.

On the other hand, if it becomes apparent you have a buffoon like Gase, or an egomaniac, or a mental midget like Philbin, etc., do we really want to continue the charade?
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Right now I'm good with
Mach2 said:
I have mixed feelings about that. I do think impatiently changing core players and staff every two or three years does not allow for consistency or enough time to really "build" a legitimate perennial contender.

On the other hand, if it becomes apparent you have a buffoon like Gase, or an egomaniac, or a mental midget like Philbin, etc., do we really want to continue the charade?
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Right now we don't have any choice. We arnt perfect but we are the best we have been In awhile.
 
Let's just pay our guy and be done with it . There's like 29 teams out there that would love to have him.
 
Mach2 said:
I don't think that's really true outside of Phinland.

Sure, everyone acknowledges his records, comebacks, sheer "will", etc., most do not put him in the top four or five all time. I think that would not be the case if he had a couple Championships.

I have read enough "Top QB of All Time" lists and articles, and had enough conversations with fans not affiliated with the Dolphins to recognize the way Dolphins fans perceive Dan is not how a majority of outsiders perceive him. It is also true that much of it comes with disclaimers about not winning a SB.

JMO, and it really makes no difference. He's definitely a first ballot HOF QB.

If he played today with good pass pro, he would own the record books again. Would he win rings? Not so sure about that.
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I don’t think so Mach, I’m petty sure he’s top 5 in the majority of boards
 
djphinfan said:
I don’t think so Mach, I’m petty sure he’s top 5 in the majority of boards
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Well, I perused several just prior to posting, as I always try to make sure I'm remembering correctly when I make statements.

Didn't see many top 5.
 
Mach2 said:
Which part is he wrong about?

I disagree with many of that poster's positions, but I don't see glaring inaccuracy in that post.
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I could have added that Marino is my favourite... I love him and think he changed the game all by himself.

But we were talking about everyone else... And the fact that many do not consider Marino the greatest of all time because he does not have rings.

I do not agree with those articles... etc.. But there is no denying they exist and the fact that they eventually all mention superbowl victories.

I could have been more precise in differentiating between what is published about Marino and my feelings on him. Maybe that is what upset him?
 
The flaw in this stupid phrase “ the market is the market” is, I have to follow suit based on other GM’ s ability to evaluate and allocate money.
That’s a serious flaw in the system because, they may be bad at their job.

Following that business model without taking into account my own personal evaluations and variables of my own player, and issues of my Qb is nonsensical .

I mean just think about how ridiculous this is.

Here’s the business model that it’s saying, Well Trevor and Jared got paid 55 so I have to beat that, screw all my own data and context about what value I think my player should have relative to the cap, I’ve got to follow Gm’s that might get fired in a year.

No, screw that stupid phrase, I hope Grier stands by his own personal allocation and tells everyone to **** off.

He’s what we think your value is take it or play out your fifth.

Exactly what he did with Wilkins..
 
djphinfan said:
The flaw in this stupid phrase “ the market is the market” is, I have to follow suit based on other GM’ s ability to evaluate and allocate money.
That’s a serious flaw in the system because, they may be bad at their job.

Following that business model without taking into account my own personal evaluations and variables of my own player, and issues of my Qb is nonsensical .

I mean just think about how ridiculous this is.

Here’s the business model that it’s saying, Well Trevor and Jared got paid 55 so I have to beat that, screw all my own data and context about what value I think my player should have relative to the cap, I’ve got to follow Gm’s that might get fired in a year.

No, screw that stupid phrase, I hope Grier stands by his own personal allocation and tells everyone to **** off.

He’s what we think your value is take it or play out your fifth.

Exactly what he did with Wilkins..
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I get where you're saying but if you are not willing to pay market value for anything, someone else will. That's why it's called the market price. My personal beliefs and evaluations tell me an 1100 square foot ranch shouldn't cost $1 million but if my market is Boulder Colorado, I don't have a choice.
 
Induperator said:
Technically Tua cannot leave until our options on him expire. We control his rights for 2 more years after this season.
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Technically? Yes.

Realistically? No.

The tag is projected at $42M next season, go look at the cap hits for next year and tell me who you are willing to cut and restructure to fit that $42M in before March. For reference, yet again I'm going to tell you that Tua counts as zero next season because he is not under contract.

People can keep burying their heads in the sand and say "let him play out this year and tag him next season" while this is absolutely the worst thing the team can do from a salary cap point of view. Not only does it mean they have to gut the roster just to fit the tag in under the cap by the start of the season they will then very likely have to pay Tua $60M a season to keep him while having gut the roster.

From a roster continuity perspective you either pay him this season or have plans to replace him next season. Either that or they will be in the salary cap hell that some fans think (wrongly) that they are in now.

Induperator said:
Mach, Gryph

Okay here we go...

Digging deep into projections for next year...

www.spotrac.com

2025 Miami Dolphins Cap Table

The Miami Dolphins 2025 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

They have the Dolphins at 12 million over the cap... not 20... I trust them over Mach... Sorry.

So let's look at the 12 million.

Every single off season there are cap cuts... casualties of the cap. Then there are a handful of players that restructure their contracts to lessen their cap number.

So yeah... We can breakdance it down this way if you want. I will reword it and show easily that they can tag Tua and pay for it.

Tons of ways to get there to pay Tua

Cutting Armstead saves 4 million... If he retires... 18 million. One player and boom we are practically there to paying for Tua under the tag.

It would be easy to tag Tua.

you want me to update the math and show examples of massive savings... fine by me.
www.spotrac.com

Terron Armstead | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Terron Armstead contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com
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Ah, cool. I get it now, you have no idea how the cap work, that's why you want to let him play then tag him.

The biggest saving is cutting Tyreek at $11M, then Armstead at $3.6. That $18M if Armstead retires is useless as that is a June 1st cut, you need to be cap compliant by the season start in March to tag someone. You can say "but I'm getting $18M in June, can I not just wait till then?"

So again, what are the Dolphins moves? Cuts aren't going to work unless you are cutting Tyreek and 10 other starters so we are down to restructures. Do you want to give new contracts to Tyreek, Ramsey, Chubb and Sieler until they are in their mid 30's with multiple void years on the end? No? Then guess what, Tua is walking as a free agent.

Holland also counts zero against the cap next year so if you are tagging Tua and cutting half the roster then Holland is walking as well.
 
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