UFC 61: Bitter Rivals | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

UFC 61: Bitter Rivals

Motion said:
Seriously, that was a joke.
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Here is how UFC is hurt. UFC PPV's draw anywhere between 50,000 to 70,000 PPV buys. Their largest PPV buy ever was Ortiz-Shamrock 1 that just broke 100,000 buys. This PPV tonight was supposed to put UFC on the map and break 200,000 PPV buys (and it probably will). If you are Dana White right now, you hit the bar, drink till ya puke, wake up and pray this PPV didn't do 200,000 buys. Because if it did, sure you made a quick buck. But you just aliented every NEW customer who bought this PPV last night. And those NEW customers will never come back after that lackluster and crappy PPV.

UFC's cable deal is solid but not great by any means. This company LIVES AND DIES on PPV. They had passed boxing, and were making waves into McMahon's business on PPV. After tonight, UFC just cumbled to the ground.

It's also a sad state of affairs when you gotta bring in a guy from PRIDE to pop your next PPV. Pretty much telling the world you have nobody in house fans will pay to see!
 
So, when will Sylvia fight Emelianenko? .. ever? Whatever disappointment there was today, the arena (and PPV viewers) would be packed for that one.
 
and for those who don't know how the PPV buys break down and what those numbers mean in comparision and didn't understand my last post. Let me explain.

Esentially 3 things run on PPV in the United States and make money. Boxing. Wrestling. UFC.

A big boxing fight with an Oscar, Roy, Trinidad, Holyfield...etc will get somewhere around 150,000 buys on a consistent basis. If its a super fight add about another 50,000 to 100,000 buys to that depending on the matchup. Although of late those numbers have been on a serious slide, which have led UFC to pass them a couple times a year. And make UFC more profitable for not only the PPV companies but as an entity in general.

Wrestlemania will draw 1 million buys (800,000 nationally and around 200,000 internationally). Off brand; Raw PPV's will do 400,000 and an Off brand Smackdown PPV will do around 250,000. That makes McMahon a monster in the PPV game and lets him call his shots.

Dana White was 2nd ahead of Boxing and even TNA. After tonight though, let's just say the PPV landscape will change drasticly. It's going to take UFC 3-5 years to rebound from tonight dibacle and that is if they rebound.......EVER! Also, expect PPV pricing to change too.

If anyone thinks I am overstating this or making too much of this, just watch and see. You have NO IDEA how big a night this was for UFC and how "worst case scenerio" just took place.
 
ckb2001 said:
Not sure if you have Foxsports, but occasionally they show "PRIDE Fighting Championships". You should take a look at that stuff too. It's (for me) a bit more entertaining to watch.

One reason (that should be implemented in the UFC also) is that the fighters lose a certain percentage of their purse if they are deemed unaggressive enough!!
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Nice thanks for the info. I've heard about PRIDE before but never seen it. I'll have to check it out.
 
MikeO said:
Here is how UFC is hurt. UFC PPV's draw anywhere between 50,000 to 70,000 PPV buys. Their largest PPV buy ever was Ortiz-Shamrock 1 that just broke 100,000 buys.
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This seemed wrong the first time I read it, so I checked (see they said many times the largest draw in UFC history was Liddell-Couture 3. Before that of course Liddell-Couture 2 and before that Liddell Couture 1).

Liddell-Couture 3 drew 350,000 to 400,000 PPV buys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_57

Also, I don't think PPV customers will dump UFC after one disappointing show since quite a few in the past (including Liddell-Couture 1,2,3) were good. It'll take more than one bad show in my opinion.

And as stated before, if they put on a fight between Sylvia and either CroCop (Filipovic), Nogueira, or especially Emelianenko, the house will be packed. Nevertheless, you're right in that Dana White does have a bit to worry about.
 
ckb2001 said:
This seemed wrong the first time I read it, so I checked (see they said many times the largest draw in UFC history was Liddell-Couture 3. Before that of course Liddell-Couture 2 and before that Liddell Couture 1).

Liddell-Couture 3 drew 350,000 to 400,000 PPV buys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_57

Also, I don't think PPV customers will dump UFC after one disappointing show since quite a few in the past (including Liddell-Couture 1,2,3) were good. It'll take more than one bad show in my opinion.

And as stated before, if they put on a fight between Sylvia and either CroCop (Filipovic), Nogueira, or especially Emelianenko, the house will be packed. Nevertheless, you're right in that Dana White does have a bit to worry about.
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No, UFC won't get dumped off of PPV. I never claimed that at all. But it will hurt their business and standing with PPV companies.

I didn't know Coultre-Lindell drew that many for their fights. WOW. Still tonight was a bad night any way you cut it.

Hope it doesn't kill the UFC-HBO deal
 
Ray Finkle said:
Nice thanks for the info. I've heard about PRIDE before but never seen it. I'll have to check it out.
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PRIDE takes place in Japan and attracts the best non-North American fighters. The best lightweights are in PRIDE (obviously, since UFC doesn't have that weight class, though UFC is talking of reinstating it) and the best heavyweights are in PRIDE (Sylvia MAYBE gets to #5 worldwide).

UFC has the best welterweights (PRIDE doesn't have this division) and because of Rich Franklin UFC has the best middleweights.

The big question is who has the best light heavyweights since both are stocked really well. UFC has Liddell, Couture (until recently since he's retired) and Ortiz, but PRIDE has Wanderlei Silva and Mauricio Rua, so this is a toss-up.

Anyway, the best of both worlds would be a merger, but so far these two organizations are quite unfriendly with each other. Case in point: years ago, Liddell and then UFC heavyweight Champ Ricco Rodriguez went to fight a UFC vs PRIDE fight in Japan. Well, Liddell won the first one, and everyone except the judges said Rodriguez won the second one. This is the ONE AND ONLY MMA match I remember where the result was so obviously fixed. PRIDE obviously didn't want to lose both fights!!
 
MikeO said:
and for those who don't know how the PPV buys break down and what those numbers mean in comparision and didn't understand my last post. Let me explain.

Esentially 3 things run on PPV in the United States and make money. Boxing. Wrestling. UFC.

A big boxing fight with an Oscar, Roy, Trinidad, Holyfield...etc will get somewhere around 150,000 buys on a consistent basis. If its a super fight add about another 50,000 to 100,000 buys to that depending on the matchup. Although of late those numbers have been on a serious slide, which have led UFC to pass them a couple times a year. And make UFC more profitable for not only the PPV companies but as an entity in general.

Wrestlemania will draw 1 million buys (800,000 nationally and around 200,000 internationally). Off brand; Raw PPV's will do 400,000 and an Off brand Smackdown PPV will do around 250,000. That makes McMahon a monster in the PPV game and lets him call his shots.

Dana White was 2nd ahead of Boxing and even TNA. After tonight though, let's just say the PPV landscape will change drasticly. It's going to take UFC 3-5 years to rebound from tonight dibacle and that is if they rebound.......EVER! Also, expect PPV pricing to change too.

If anyone thinks I am overstating this or making too much of this, just watch and see. You have NO IDEA how big a night this was for UFC and how "worst case scenerio" just took place.
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All I know MikeO is that you know nothing about boxing PPV numbers. UFC is nowhere near boxing, I mean not even close. Oscar De La Hoya's last fight did 925,000 buys. Read the grey side of this column, the 6th story down. I don't know where the WWF stands but Boxing matches on PPV with any type of big name will draw at least 300,000 buys on a regular basis



http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=2512043



Anyways tonight's PPV stunk, the Main Event dragged on and neither fighter wanted to bring the fight to the ground. Both were content with striking. As far as Shamrock goes. I knew he was done before he walked in the ring and for the 2nd straight PPV UFC tried to sell a PPV based on a washed up old fighter whose a name more then a threat in the sport anymore!
 
ckb2001 said:
PRIDE takes place in Japan and attracts the best non-North American fighters. The best lightweights are in PRIDE (obviously, since UFC doesn't have that weight class, though UFC is talking of reinstating it) and the best heavyweights are in PRIDE (Sylvia MAYBE gets to #5 worldwide).

UFC has the best welterweights (PRIDE doesn't have this division) and because of Rich Franklin UFC has the best middleweights.

The big question is who has the best light heavyweights since both are stocked really well. UFC has Liddell, Couture (until recently since he's retired) and Ortiz, but PRIDE has Wanderlei Silva and Mauricio Rua, so this is a toss-up.

Anyway, the best of both worlds would be a merger, but so far these two organizations are quite unfriendly with each other. Case in point: years ago, Liddell and then UFC heavyweight Champ Ricco Rodriguez went to fight a UFC vs PRIDE fight in Japan. Well, Liddell won the first one, and everyone except the judges said Rodriguez won the second one. This is the ONE AND ONLY MMA match I remember where the result was so obviously fixed. PRIDE obviously didn't want to lose both fights!!
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Nice thanks again for the info. I'll try to check and see if it's on TV around me.
 
FinsNYanksFan13 said:
All I know MikeO is that you know nothing about boxing PPV numbers. UFC is nowhere near boxing, I mean not even close. Oscar De La Hoya's last fight did 925,000 buys. Read the grey side of this column, the 6th story down. I don't know where the WWF stands but Boxing matches on PPV with any type of big name will draw at least 300,000 buys on a regular basis.
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MikeO is pretty much right what he said with WWF/E buys. Like he said Wrestle Mania usually draws 1 million people with RAW doing about 350,000 to 400,000 and Smackdown doing 150,000 to 250,000. The other big PPVs like Royal Rumble, Summer Slam and Survivor Series do about 450,000 to 550,000. Again it all depends on who's fighting and if there's more than 1 WWE PPV going on during the month.
 
LightsOut said:
pride > ufc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riliIXiUT4Y
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I guess you're making this claim only for the Light Heavyweight division and not arguing against the rest of my post above.

Thing is, that fight is only one fight and came at a bad time for Liddell, right after he lost to Couture, which seemed to destroy this guy's confidence for once (he had 10 straight wins before that and seemed destined to take the belt).

But, look what he did right before that. Liddell beat Sobral who beat Rua who beat Jackson who beat Liddell... (one match each).

Also, Liddell beat Tito who beat Silva (a few years before, meaning when Tito was weaker than when he lost to Liddell) who beat Jackson (twice) who beat Liddell...

So, you're just showing one match. No question Jackson is good, but I think with Liddell's current form the only ones that MIGHT be favored against him are Rua and Wanderlei Silva, and even that's not clear. That's why the elites in the light heavyweight divisions in PRIDE and UFC are probably equal enough that it's a toss-up.

Only cases where it's clear PRIDE > UFC are lightweight and heavyweight.
 
FinsNYanksFan13 said:
All I know MikeO is that you know nothing about boxing PPV numbers. UFC is nowhere near boxing, I mean not even close. Oscar De La Hoya's last fight did 925,000 buys. Read the grey side of this column, the 6th story down. I don't know where the WWF stands but Boxing matches on PPV with any type of big name will draw at least 300,000 buys on a regular basis
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Yeah Yanks but that's Oscar. No one in BOXING is close to DLH, let alone UFC. If they did 400k buys, that's pretty solid. How many buys do you think Roy's fight will do in a few weeks? They'd be real happy with 400k, considering they have only sold 700 tickets!!! I don't watch UFC but it sounds like you guys should have just watched the Spinks/Karmazin fight. Good fight. I thought Roman won, but it was close.
 
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