Vernon Carey is our best offensive lineman, right now. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Vernon Carey is our best offensive lineman, right now.

Clumpy said:
Your post is :rofl3:

6th rd steal that has done what in the NFL? Let's see him play a few more games before you annoint him as a steal.

I'll match up Bennie Anderson/ChrisVillarrial against Jeno James/John St Clair ANY TIME.

I'll match up Mike Williams/Mike Gandy vs any tandem y'all can scrap together at T

I'll take Teague at C over anyone y'all have.

Right now, no OL on your roster would be a starter in Buffalo, only depth and that includes Jeno James

That just goes to show you how much you know about our o-line.

RG aint' St. Clair. It's Frank Middleton, who started for the Raiders on their SuperBowl Team.


...and what has Mike Williams done so far that Stockar McDougle hasn't???

...and if you think Mike Gandy is better than Vernon Carey, well, then, that just paints you in "homer."

Sorry, but you are wrong.
 
Ohhhh THAT Frank Middleton?

THE Frank Middleton that was released by the Raiders HOW MANY months ago and was JUST signed by Miami a few days ago? Ohhhh yep....he's a great one

Mike Gandy has actually played in some NFL games....Carey saw how much spot action?

I suspect that most Fins fans would love to have Mike Williams at RT right about now

I noticed that you said nothing about the "steal"

:rofl:
 
Clumpy said:
I'm sorry parrot

I just had to......

Truly, it's not a good sign that Carey is your best OL right now . Clearly, Jeno James would be if he wasn't battling heat problems

Other than Stocker Carey should be the best OL right now. He was a first round pick, that is generally how that works.

However this goes to show one thing and one thing only, you can only make a good observation about a player watching the film and having a decent understanding of the play.
 
Nublar7 said:
That is the exact same starting line I see. Other then Middleton, that is an O-Line for many years.
If McDougle works out at RT, then lets hope we can sign for a long term deal as his contract expires at the eend of this season. He will be coming into his prime and would be good to have him signed to a 3-5 year deal.
 
i would have figured with the bills great OL, QB, RB, defense and all they would have at least done something lately.
 
Thanks CK for the analysis. I'm encouraged by Carey's effort and hope he continues to improve. Another position I am curious about is the battle at center between McKinney and Hadnot. For those who can copy the game or Tivo it, wouldn't it be interesting to have a play by play comparison of them tonight? My money is on Hadnot, but who knows McKinney could prove me wrong.


Steve
 
Clumpy said:
Your post is :rofl3:

6th rd steal that has done what in the NFL? Let's see him play a few more games before you annoint him as a steal.

I'll match up Bennie Anderson/ChrisVillarrial against Jeno James/John St Clair ANY TIME.

I'll match up Mike Williams/Mike Gandy vs any tandem y'all can scrap together at T

I'll take Teague at C over anyone y'all have.

Right now, no OL on your roster would be a starter in Buffalo, only depth and that includes Jeno James

i second that
 
Clumpy said:
Ohhhh THAT Frank Middleton?

THE Frank Middleton that was released by the Raiders HOW MANY months ago and was JUST signed by Miami a few days ago? Ohhhh yep....he's a great one

Mike Gandy has actually played in some NFL games....Carey saw how much spot action?

I suspect that most Fins fans would love to have Mike Williams at RT right about now

I noticed that you said nothing about the "steal"

:rofl:



its not like bennie anderson was snatched right after FA began....
 
DolphinDevil28 said:
...and what has Mike Williams done so far that Stockar McDougle hasn't???

i tell you, he was wally´s biatch, back then
 
SWS84 said:
Thanks CK for the analysis. I'm encouraged by Carey's effort and hope he continues to improve. Another position I am curious about is the battle at center between McKinney and Hadnot. For those who can copy the game or Tivo it, wouldn't it be interesting to have a play by play comparison of them tonight? My money is on Hadnot, but who knows McKinney could prove me wrong.


Steve

the truth is that this is VERY good for us. One of the hardest and most expensive positions to fill and we just might have a warrior. It was not long ago many of us were lamenting the draft and basically giving up until the "bumper crop" from next year becomes available.
 
I'm surprised at Clumpy going Trollish on us. That role is normally handled by the Bills fan who have just registered after being given a used 266 from their Jets cousin.
 
ckparrothead said:
Hey guys. I know I've been promising to take a closer look at the Bears preseason game to see how our offensive linemen did. I have my own system for grading these guys.

The reason I decided to do this was because I had seen various reports that Carey struggled against Alex Brown. That certainly isn't what I remembered seeing during the game, so I checked.

Without a doubt, Vernon Carey was our best and most consistent lineman out there on Monday night. Note that this was just one game, but I am absolutely certain of the results of that game. This could change, no doubt, but at least this Monday night Carey was the best out there.

Two years ago I did the same thing with a preseason game tape against the Jaguars and graded out Wade Smith, who went up primarily against Hugh Douglass that night. Smith graded out bad, even though everyone was clamoring over the fact that Douglass got no sacks and no tackles.

Observations:

1. Zone blocking is perfect for Carey. His power is evident. He's got the power to make two blocks in succession, and actually affect the path of both blockers. What I'm saying is that just a "chip" block from Carey, as the first of successive blocks, can take a guy out of a play when it's Carey doing the blocking.

2. During his quarter and a half of game play, Carey screwed up twice. That includes run blocking and pass blocking. His worst screwup was NOT the A.J. Feeley sack by Brian Urlacher. A few plays before that, on a 3 step drop, Brown succeeded in faking Carey out on an outside-inside move, and blew right past him after Carey barely got hands on him. Brown was on his way straight into the QB when Feeley got rid of the ball (actually I believe it was a complete pass, too). That was not a failure that is as bad as it possibly gets but it was still failure. The other failure was the Urlacher sack. But, it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Urlacher green-dog blitzed on a 7 step drop and Feeley really should have seen it coming. Had Urlacher not done that, Feeley would have DEFINITELY gotten the ball off. Brown did nothing more than get a paw on Feeley's bicep as a result of Carey's blocking (or non-blocking). No doubt he beat Carey to the outside and got Carey off balance, but Carey recovered in time to prevent the sack. This would not have gone down as a sack on Carey under any circumstances...however the other play I was talking about, had it been a 5 or 7 step drop, it would have been a sack and the sack would have been hanging over Carey's head.

3. I was not able to give Carey a failing or even partial-failing grade on any single play. None. Not any run play, not any pass play. He pancaked Alex Brown twice (once on a run play, another time on a pass play). Every other time, he fulfilled his blocking assignment perfectly. And by that I mean the guys he was responsible for blocking were fully locked out of the action on every play. On pass plays, that means the guys he blocked were nowhere near making a play on the passer, and on run plays, he blocked them away from the action by the runningback.

Other notes:

Lamar Gordon sucks so much it's incredible. First run play to the right side, the entire right side is blasted wide open...blockers have their defenders tied up, all Lamar has to do is step to the right and he's got the speed and daylight to maybe even take it to the house. Nope. He cuts inside, to the only spot where there are free defenders unblocked, and gets tackled for a 3 yard gain. Way to go.

In case you were wondering who graded out as our worst linemen among the starters, it was Jeno James and John St. Clair. They got manhandled in general, failing grades like every other play. Jeno was slightly worst than John. I know Jeno was shaking off that dehydration thing a little still, but really the guy was letting DTs blast right up the middle on run plays and pass plays. That's just not acceptable. And Stockar McDougle really did have some struggles against Ogunleye...which just showed me that hey, Ogun really IS pretty good lol.

The important thing to take away is that Carey was our best lineman out there, which is exactly what your LT should be. He shows tremendous power, very quick feet, and the ability to make successive reads and blocks. I never thought I'd be saying this after last year. I had given up hope on him. It makes me so mad at the previous coaching staff for not realizing what we had, especially after we gave up a 1st and 4th to get him!

Thx for the info CK :)
 
ckparrothead said:
Hey guys. I know I've been promising to take a closer look at the Bears preseason game to see how our offensive linemen did. I have my own system for grading these guys.

The reason I decided to do this was because I had seen various reports that Carey struggled against Alex Brown. That certainly isn't what I remembered seeing during the game, so I checked.

Without a doubt, Vernon Carey was our best and most consistent lineman out there on Monday night. Note that this was just one game, but I am absolutely certain of the results of that game. This could change, no doubt, but at least this Monday night Carey was the best out there.

Two years ago I did the same thing with a preseason game tape against the Jaguars and graded out Wade Smith, who went up primarily against Hugh Douglass that night. Smith graded out bad, even though everyone was clamoring over the fact that Douglass got no sacks and no tackles.

Observations:

1. Zone blocking is perfect for Carey. His power is evident. He's got the power to make two blocks in succession, and actually affect the path of both blockers. What I'm saying is that just a "chip" block from Carey, as the first of successive blocks, can take a guy out of a play when it's Carey doing the blocking.

2. During his quarter and a half of game play, Carey screwed up twice. That includes run blocking and pass blocking. His worst screwup was NOT the A.J. Feeley sack by Brian Urlacher. A few plays before that, on a 3 step drop, Brown succeeded in faking Carey out on an outside-inside move, and blew right past him after Carey barely got hands on him. Brown was on his way straight into the QB when Feeley got rid of the ball (actually I believe it was a complete pass, too). That was not a failure that is as bad as it possibly gets but it was still failure. The other failure was the Urlacher sack. But, it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Urlacher green-dog blitzed on a 7 step drop and Feeley really should have seen it coming. Had Urlacher not done that, Feeley would have DEFINITELY gotten the ball off. Brown did nothing more than get a paw on Feeley's bicep as a result of Carey's blocking (or non-blocking). No doubt he beat Carey to the outside and got Carey off balance, but Carey recovered in time to prevent the sack. This would not have gone down as a sack on Carey under any circumstances...however the other play I was talking about, had it been a 5 or 7 step drop, it would have been a sack and the sack would have been hanging over Carey's head.

3. I was not able to give Carey a failing or even partial-failing grade on any single play. None. Not any run play, not any pass play. He pancaked Alex Brown twice (once on a run play, another time on a pass play). Every other time, he fulfilled his blocking assignment perfectly. And by that I mean the guys he was responsible for blocking were fully locked out of the action on every play. On pass plays, that means the guys he blocked were nowhere near making a play on the passer, and on run plays, he blocked them away from the action by the runningback.

Other notes:

Lamar Gordon sucks so much it's incredible. First run play to the right side, the entire right side is blasted wide open...blockers have their defenders tied up, all Lamar has to do is step to the right and he's got the speed and daylight to maybe even take it to the house. Nope. He cuts inside, to the only spot where there are free defenders unblocked, and gets tackled for a 3 yard gain. Way to go.

In case you were wondering who graded out as our worst linemen among the starters, it was Jeno James and John St. Clair. They got manhandled in general, failing grades like every other play. Jeno was slightly worst than John. I know Jeno was shaking off that dehydration thing a little still, but really the guy was letting DTs blast right up the middle on run plays and pass plays. That's just not acceptable. And Stockar McDougle really did have some struggles against Ogunleye...which just showed me that hey, Ogun really IS pretty good lol.

The important thing to take away is that Carey was our best lineman out there, which is exactly what your LT should be. He shows tremendous power, very quick feet, and the ability to make successive reads and blocks. I never thought I'd be saying this after last year. I had given up hope on him. It makes me so mad at the previous coaching staff for not realizing what we had, especially after we gave up a 1st and 4th to get him!

Thanks for the analysis. I'm on he side of the argument that Carey does NOT suck. He was All-World coming out of HS and played under one of the best OL coaches in college, Art Kehoe. Only knock on Carey is he doesn't have a mean streak and needs a little kick in the pants every now and then. I think he will be fine. He should have been playing last year, but that's a dead horse.
 
This is hilarious!! Did you take off for mental mistakes? I guess the other four o-linemen were wrong when they went one linebacker over and Vernon didn't?
 
don't expect much magic from the o-line tonight either. the depth chart has st.clair and mckinney as starters. When are we going to get the right combination!?!?1?1? its gotta be hadnot at center(provided he continues to play better than mckinney) and middleton at right guard. Middleton is a very good run blocker, and while injuries last season and his age made him available for a long time in FA he can definitely contribute something to this team.
 
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