We wont have to trade up to land our QB, and here’s why

[Etrius24]

I actually like Hurts, but you've always been that "Let's skimp on the QB" guy. It's in your nature.

Kam

I guess Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson have changed me...

The Broncos stacked their line and ran ball twice as much as they threw it... It was not sexy... but they won football games... with a QB that could barely throw a pass.

Hurts is every bit the runner and leader Tebow was.... Only he can actually throw the ball. No his arm does not compare to Mahomes... But when you can run like he runs... It does not have to be.

The real question remains ... Would Miami Sign Thuney and then Draft Biadasz and Prince Wanogho to build a killer line for Hurts? Would they draft a full back a blocking tight end and a power running back like Dillon? Will they commit to this like the Ravens did?

Hurts threw for 32 touchdowns last year.... He showed he is not just a run QB... Would Miami commit to building an offense where we run the ball 40 times a game and15 of those runs are designed QB running plays?

Forcing a defense to play the QB run all of the time opens up the passing game.... Draft Duvarney... Hope Williams heals... and roll.

I do not think that drafting Hurts is skimping on the QB position at all. I think it is seeing what the Ravens did and deciding it was genius.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Kam

I guess Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson have changed me...

The Broncos stacked their line and ran ball twice as much as they threw it... It was not sexy... but they won football games... with a QB that could barely throw a pass.

Hurts is every bit the runner and leader Tebow was.... Only he can actually throw the ball. No his arm does not compare to Mahomes... But when you can run like he runs... It does not have to be.

The real question remains ... Would Miami Sign Thuney and then Draft Biadasz and Prince Wanogho to build a killer line for Hurts? Would they draft a full back a blocking tight end and a power running back like Dillon? Will they commit to this like the Ravens did?

Hurts threw for 32 touchdowns last year.... He showed he is not just a run QB... Would Miami commit to building an offense where we run the ball 40 times a game and15 of those runs are designed QB running plays?

Forcing a defense to play the QB run all of the time opens up the passing game.... Draft Duvarney... Hope Williams heals... and roll.

I do not think that drafting Hurts is skimping on the QB position at all. I think it is seeing what the Ravens did and deciding it was genius.

Tebow won one playoff game before he was out of the league. Why would you even bother bringing that up as some sort of prototype?

And the Ravens built around Jackson because he's a much better player than Hurts. They might not be different in terms of throwing even though the jury is still out on that, but Jackson is the best EVER at running the ball at QB. You're not getting a special all time talent if you tried to do the same thing with Hurts. You're drafting a poor man's Jackson and expecting to win.

It makes zero sense. All you're doing is being cheap with your draft picks and pretending like it's the "smart" play rather than admitting to yourself that you're the Scrooge of the draft.

 

[Etrius24]

Tebow won one playoff game before he was out of the league. Why would you even bother bringing that up as some sort of prototype?

And the Ravens built around Jackson because he's a much better player than Hurts. They might not be different in terms of throwing even though the jury is still out on that, but Jackson is the best EVER at running the ball at QB. You're not getting a special all time talent if you tried to do the same thing with Hurts. You're drafting a poor man's Jackson and expecting to win.

It makes zero sense. All you're doing is being cheap with your draft picks and pretending like it's the "smart" play rather than admitting to yourself that you're the Scrooge of the draft.

Kam

I mentioned Tebow not because he was amazing... But he did show that you can win football games running the football.

How many playoff victories do the Miami Dolphins have in the last 20 years.

Tebow could NOT throw the football.... He was 23 years old trying to learn how to throw... He even tried to change his arm motion and the way he held the ball... He was not a QB... He was a Hybrid Fullback. That is part of my point. The Broncos still had some success.

Hurts can actually throw the ball... Pretty well. He has proven it... And he has more talent for running the ball than Tebow ever did. The leadership thing... He has that in spades as well.

I mention Tebow as to say.... If a team could make the playoffs with Tebow... Imagine what would be possible with the same roster and Hurts?

 

[Etrius24]

And as for running the football... I think you are selling Hurts short... He is a different type of runner than Jackson... He is incredibly ****ing talented when it comes to running the football

No he is not better... But he does not have to be better to be awesome.

Dan Marino was better than Elway... Elway still won a couple of rings.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Kam

I mentioned Tebow not because he was amazing... But he did show that you can win football games running the football.

How many playoff victories do the Miami Dolphins have in the last 20 years.

Tebow could NOT throw the football.... He was 23 years old trying to learn how to throw... He even tried to change his arm motion and the way he held the ball... He was not a QB... He was a Hybrid Fullback. That is part of my point. The Broncos still had some success.

Hurts can actually throw the ball... Pretty well. He has proven it... And he has more talent for running the ball than Tebow ever did. The leadership thing... He has that in spades as well.

I mention Tebow as to say.... If a team could make the playoffs with Tebow... Imagine what would be possible with the same roster and Hurts?

Again you bring up Tebow, a guy who won ONE playoff game as some archtype to emulate? Why?

It doesn't prove anything whatsoever. Take a look at Allen and Buffalo as the most recent example.

You take your example and I'll give you a plethora of examples of all the playoff games won by QBs that can actually throw the ball.

You're trying to build on an outlier.

 

[Etrius24]

Again you bring up Tebow, a guy who won ONE playoff game as some archtype to emulate? Why?

It doesn't prove anything whatsoever. Take a look at Allen and Buffalo as the most recent example.

You take your example and I'll give you a plethora of examples of all the playoff games won by QBs that can actually throw the ball.

You're trying to build on an outlier.

No Kam I am looking at someone that could not throw the ball... that still had some success in the NFL... and then looking at Hurts who can throw the ball... and is even a better rusher than Tebow.... And then looking at the model of success Baltimore used with Jackson.

If a team could make the playoffs with Tebow imagine what they could do with Hurts.

Miami is a team that has made the playoffs twice in the last 20 years.

I am ready for them to do something different and build around a guy like Hurts... I do not consider that an outlier.

 

[Kamelion4291]

No Kam I am looking at someone that could not throw the ball... that still had some success in the NFL... and then looking at Hurts who can throw the ball... and is even a better rusher than Tebow.... And then looking at the model of success Baltimore used with Jackson.

If a team could make the playoffs with Tebow imagine what they could do with Hurts.

Miami is a team that has made the playoffs twice in the last 20 years.

I am ready for them to do something different and build around a guy like Hurts... I do not consider that an outlier.

The flaw in your logic is looking at Tebow in the NFL and saying he can't throw, but looking at Hurts and saying that he can. Tebow was a better Hurts in college which is why he was the first Sophomore to win a Heisman.

You don't know whether Hurts can throw or not in the NFL.

 

[Kyndig]

You're my boy Blue!

Exactly why I've been bangin' the drum against Tua. He's had two ankle injuries (w/ surgery), some minor leg issues and now a major hip injury. It's all lower half injuries on a QB who likes to scramble or maybe the better term is "extend plays with his legs".

I hope the kid has a brilliant NFL career if Miami does in fact draft him but I'm also not sold that it's going to happen (in fact I think he's more likely to be RGIII 2.0).

I wouldn’t neccessarily bang the drum against Tua, in fact, I am excited about the prospect of drafting him. I just don’t think that we should trade valuable draft assets to draft him and I don’t think we are going to have to, and as BlueFin mentioned, Herbert and Love are both probably ranked a bit higher on many teams draft boards than many people here realize, so I don’t know that anyone is that eager to trade in front of us for anybody, especially when the Chargers for example could sit right behind us and just grab Herbert right after us without giving up any draft capital and they would have a fine, promising, prospect with a pretty high ceiling to go along with the rest of their draft picks.

I think the Raiders have a decent QB. I don’t think the book on Derick Carr has been written yet. They would be much better off drafting him some weapons, especially receiver out of this killer class of WR, (after the Antonio Brown debacle) and maybe an Offensive Tackle. I don’t see it. The Panthers can sit where they are and draft Jordan Love who also has a super high ceiling, and I think the Colts and the Buccaneers would likely go the Free Agent route instead of paying the price to jump in front of us from where they are drafting which would be very expensive. You never know, but if the Draft is Poker, then we should play our winning hand and not get bluffed out of valuable draft capital by trading up.

 

[Kyndig]

Kam

I guess Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson have changed me...

The Broncos stacked their line and ran ball twice as much as they threw it... It was not sexy... but they won football games... with a QB that could barely throw a pass.

Hurts is every bit the runner and leader Tebow was.... Only he can actually throw the ball. No his arm does not compare to Mahomes... But when you can run like he runs... It does not have to be.

The real question remains ... Would Miami Sign Thuney and then Draft Biadasz and Prince Wanogho to build a killer line for Hurts? Would they draft a full back a blocking tight end and a power running back like Dillon? Will they commit to this like the Ravens did?

Hurts threw for 32 touchdowns last year.... He showed he is not just a run QB... Would Miami commit to building an offense where we run the ball 40 times a game and15 of those runs are designed QB running plays?

Forcing a defense to play the QB run all of the time opens up the passing game.... Draft Duvarney... Hope Williams heals... and roll.

I do not think that drafting Hurts is skimping on the QB position at all. I think it is seeing what the Ravens did and deciding it was genius.

Lamar Jackson College Stats

PASSING STATS
SEASON​	TEAM	G	ATT	COMP	YDS	INT	TDS	SACKED	RATING
2015-16​	Louisville​	12​	247​	135​	1840​	0​	12​	26​	126.8​
2016-17​	Louisville​	13​	409​	230​	3543​	0​	30​	46​	148.8​
2017-18​	Louisville​	13​	430​	254​	3660​	10​	27​	29​	146.6​
TOTAL​	​	38​	1086​	619​	9043​	0​	69​	101​	142.9​

RUSHING
SEASON​	TEAM​	G​	ATT​	YDS​	TDS​
2015-16​	Louisville​	12​	163​	960​	11​
2016-17​	Louisville​	13​	260​	1571​	21​
2017-18​	Louisville​	13​	232​	1601​	18​
TOTAL​	​	38​	655​	4132​	50​

Jalen Hurtz College Stats
Passing

• * indicates bowl stats included

�

		Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2016	Alabama	SEC	FR	QB	15	240	382	62.8	2780	7.3	7.4	23	9	139.1
*2017	Alabama	SEC	SO	QB	14	154	255	60.4	2081	8.2	9.3	17	1	150.2
*2018	Alabama	SEC	JR	QB	13	51	70	72.9	765	10.9	11.9	8	2	196.7
*2019	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	237	340	69.7	3851	11.3	12.2	32	8	191.2
Career	Overall					682	1047	65.1	9477	9.1	9.7	80	20	162.6
	Alabama					445	707	62.9	5626	8.0	8.6	48	12	148.8
	Oklahoma					237	340	69.7	3851	11.3	12.2	32	8	191.2

Rushing & Receiving

�

		Rushing	Receiving	Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
*2016	Alabama	SEC	FR	QB	15	191	954	5.0	13	0	0		0	191	954	5.0	13
*2017	Alabama	SEC	SO	QB	14	154	855	5.6	8	1	-1	-1.0	0	155	854	5.5	8
*2018	Alabama	SEC	JR	QB	13	36	167	4.6	2	2	16	8.0	0	38	183	4.8	2
*2019	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	233	1298	5.6	20	2	25	12.5	1	235	1323	5.6	21
Career	Overall					614	3274	5.3	43	5	40	8.0	1	619	3314	5.4	44
	Alabama					381	1976	5.2	23	3	15	5.0	0	384	1991	5.2	23
	Oklahoma					233	1298	5.6	20	2	25	12.5	1	235	1323	5.6	21

So, to compare apples to apples, LJ only played 3 seasons. So Let’s take Jalen Hurtz best 3 college seasons and compare:

Lamar Jackson
Comp % 56.9
Passing yards: 9043
Passing TD 69/INT 10
Rushing Yards 4132, Avg 6.3
Rushing TDS 50

Jalen Hurtz
Comp % 69
Passing Yards: 8712
Passing TD 72/18 int
Rushing Yards 3107
Rushing TDS 1

They played in similar systems only for 1 year. They are both explosive athletes who have good arms, but Lamar Jackson took it to the house with his legs 50 to 1 vs LJ. Jalen Hurtz was a more accurate passer, but threw 3 more TDs and 8 more interceptions.

Combine Numbers;

40 yard Dash
Lamar Jackson 4.34
Jalen Hurtz 4.59

Conclusions? LJ is blistering fast, Hurtz doesn’t quite have his speed which is a big deal. Although he is quite an athlete and a real threat to run, he’s not Lamar Jackson! Out of their college career, Hurtz was slightly more accurate from a completion % standpoint, but he nearly threw twice as many interceptions on only 3 more touch downs. You can see that extra speed reflected in their rushing touchdown totals.

Hurtz could be a real weapon, but he‘s not the fastest player on the field, where Lamar Jackson is every time and that does make a difference. Someone will take a chance on Hurtz, but probably not in the first round? There’s definitely plenty of talent to work with though...

 

[Locke]

The flaw in your logic is looking at Tebow in the NFL and saying he can't throw, but looking at Hurts and saying that he can. Tebow was a better Hurts in college which is why he was the first Sophomore to win a Heisman.

You don't know whether Hurts can throw or not in the NFL.

The flaw in his logic is much deeper than that. His point is he thinks you don’t need an elite passing game to be successful in the NFL. He’s stuck playing Marty-ball when the rest of the NFL is show casing their passing games and winning SBs in the process.

 

[NY8123]

I wouldn’t neccessarily bang the drum against Tua, in fact, I am excited about the prospect of drafting him. I just don’t think that we should trade valuable draft assets to draft him and I don’t think we are going to have to, and as BlueFin mentioned, Herbert and Love are both probably ranked a bit higher on many teams draft boards than many people here realize, so I don’t know that anyone is that eager to trade in front of us for anybody, especially when the Chargers for example could sit right behind us and just grab Herbert right after us without giving up any draft capital and they would have a fine, promising, prospect with a pretty high ceiling to go along with the rest of their draft picks.

I think the Raiders have a decent QB. I don’t think the book on Derick Carr has been written yet. They would be much better off drafting him some weapons, especially receiver out of this killer class of WR, (after the Antonio Brown debacle) and maybe an Offensive Tackle. I don’t see it. The Panthers can sit where they are and draft Jordan Love who also has a super high ceiling, and I think the Colts and the Buccaneers would likely go the Free Agent route instead of paying the price to jump in front of us from where they are drafting which would be very expensive. You never know, but if the Draft is Poker, then we should play our winning hand and not get bluffed out of valuable draft capital by trading up.

Glad you mentioned it. I'd take Care over Tua in a trade scenario.

 

[where's th'fish]

First of all, Tua is too good a prospect and his medical reports are too positive to believe some team won't be willing to jump Miami knowing Miami's need at the position. I also don't understand the logic of letting other teams dictate who you would be stuck with. This front office better have a conviction on one of these guys, but that's what scares me. If they stay where they are and are stuck with who ever they take, they are going to say that's exactly what they wanted all along and how they played the draft perfectly. I just won't buy it.

Re: the medical reports, I honestly don't recall any medical reports from any player ever coming out negative. An example is Andrew Luck, he's fine, he's on target, he's doing great... and then, bam, he retired. It only makes sense, the medical staff work for the player, not for the media. Medical reports will be heavily curated. That's why team doctors need to take a look at the guy... and of course, again, they won't come out and tell the media what they really think. It's one of those things where we fans are left reading the tea leaves.

Another example is you draft what you think is a healthy player and then right after, whoops, he needs surgery. Players lie about their health all the time.

 

[rickd13]

Re: the medical reports, I honestly don't recall any medical reports from any player ever coming out negative. An example is Andrew Luck, he's fine, he's on target, he's doing great... and then, bam, he retired. It only makes sense, the medical staff work for the player, not for the media. Medical reports will be heavily curated. That's why team doctors need to take a look at the guy... and of course, again, they won't come out and tell the media what they really think. It's one of those things where we fans are left reading the tea leaves.

Another example is you draft what you think is a healthy player and then right after, whoops, he needs surgery. Players lie about their health all the time.

Of course the team doctors are going to examine him. That was the whole point of him being at the combine. Every team got to talk to Tua and look at his medical tests. So far, not one negative report about his health and the healing of his hip has come to light.

 

[keller377]

I think some are missing the rise of Herbert and Love.

I think it’s naive to think the Dolphins aren’t jittery about Tua's injury history and unwilling to trade extra draft capital to move up and take that risk.

I think the NFL see’s Herbert as an extremely talented evolving QB who is maturing... was miscast in Cristobal’s overly conservative offense and ground and pound. Who was the star of Senior Bowl week and the best thrower at the combine.

Love is another extremely talented prospect who tore it up in 2018 with a decent supporting cast, in 2019 he lost all his support, changed coaches....and was forced to go up against the likes of LSU with devoid of talent Utah State and forced things trying stay in games. The NFL loves his potential and he will go early!

Bottom line....I think the Dolphins like all 3...I think Chris Grier will not feel the need to risk extra draft picks on a Tua.... will sit there at 5 and see who is still there and make his pick!

Good points. There's 4 QBs and we pick #5. That should work out for us.

 

[where's th'fish]

Of course the team doctors are going to examine him. That was the whole point of him being at the combine. Every team got to talk to Tua and look at his medical tests. So far, not one negative report about his health and the healing of his hip has come to light.

My point still stands, you can't trust what teams say about the matter either. Say you are team X and Tua is off your board because of health issues. It's in your interest for the rest of the league to think Tua is well and healthy so someone will pick him before you, so you would never say anything negative about the health of the player. Players with injury issues are typically among the toughest to project in the draft.