We would be 12-4 If not for our PLAYERS and REFS and yet it is Wanny's fault??

[iceblizzard69]

Originally posted by Prime Time


Okay. Let me get this straight. You are saying both players and Wanny are accountable for our losses. But yet we should dump Wanny and let the players who are accountable for our losses slide? And what happens If we had a new coach, and these players do not perform and blow it, is it the new coach's fault too?? In that case, we should cut the players who blow plays etc. etc. and look elsewhere.

When did I say that the players should slide? You are missing the point. I said we should fire Wanny because he doesn't prepare his team for games, doesn't make in game adjustments, uses poor judgement, and is a bad motivator. That is why Wannstedt needs to go.

As for players, there are some who underperformed and need to be replaced.

Wannstedt is accountable for many things and some players blew it as well. I have listed many times in this thread alone what Wannstedt does poorly.

 

[iceblizzard69]

Originally posted by PhinPhreak


What it comes down to is that the team won 10 with or without Wanny, but could of done better with a better coach.

Problem is you can't cut a whole team but you can replace the guy who is responsible for ther actions. Taht is why people want Wanny out somebody has to pay. Hopefuly him losing GM control will be enough.

I agree. The problem is that we will have the same crappy coach on the sidelines so it won't be enough.

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by Prime Time
If not for a stupid holding call on McMichael against Houston, where RW got down to the 1 yard line, we most likely score a TD, even If we don't we get a FG forcing Houston to score a TD or we win. Then, If Mare doesn't miss a FG, and get another blocked we beat New England. So right there we would be 12-4, up to standards as we should be, and in the playoffs, and yet everyone blames Wanny for our dissapointing season? Get real.

This is very weak post.

If, If, If.....
The team played sloppy and uninspired football much of the year.
They played ultra conservative and many times players have even made remarks about being frustrated about the conservative style of play. You can easily argue that those games you are pointing out should NEVER have even been that close. You can put that on coaching. Penalties show undisciplined football... that you can put on coaching.
A team with a ton of All Pros not making the playoffs shows bad leadership and a lack of being able to maximize the talent on your team.... you can put that on coaching, Knowing your weaknesses in the offseason and then not addressing them at all.... That is unarguably stupid and directly lays on Wanny.

You can go on and on about the problems. Is it all the coaching staffs fault..... no, but a huge percentage of the blame lies directly on Wanny's shoulders. Enough to vallidate people questioning his retainment.

You get real.....

 

[Prime Time]

Re: Re: We would be 12-4 If not for our PLAYERS and REFS and yet it is Wanny's fault??

Originally posted by Trekbiz


You can go on and on about the problems. Is it all the coaching staffs fault..... no, but a huge percentage of the blame lies directly on Wanny's shoulders. Enough to vallidate people questioning his retainment.

That is what I am saying. So let's not just not blame Wanny and Fiedler for them.

 

[Rrodr038]

For me it comes down to one thing. A Wanne coached team always seems to lay an egg when its crunch time. Every team gets their share of bad calls against them. The difference is that a poorly motivated team lets a bad call be the difference in the game while a well coached (bellichek and parcells) team finds a way to pull it out in spite of the call. For example, after McMichael's holding penalty, we still had a shot at winning if the "vaunted" D stops Houston on one of the two or three 3rd downs. The last two years the Phins have just found ways to let big games get away from them in many different ways with FUNDAMENTAL mistakes from many different players. When a whole team gets the "whiffs" (missing tackles), when a team cannot seem to go a whole quarter without commiting a personal foul, when a both units play so inconsistently over the year you cannot just let the blame go past Wanne.

My retort to your "two plays changed the season" stuff, you have to also consider how many games we won that came down to one play. If the Jets score instead of being stopped on that goaline stand in the first game, if Fiedler doesn't scramble for a first on third and 10 or if Marion doesn't pick off Bledsoe in the endzone against the Bills, if Mcknight doesn't break that reverse against the Giants, if Madison doesn't pick off Leftwhich's pass on the final drive against the Jags, if ANYTHING went differently against the Ravens or Redskins in the fourth or in overtime and if the Jets convert a first down on their last drive in this last game we would be 3-13. You see, two plays made the difference in us not being 12-4, three plays kept us from being 7-9.

 

[iceblizzard69]

Re: Re: Re: We would be 12-4 If not for our PLAYERS and REFS and yet it is Wanny's fault??

Originally posted by Prime Time


That is what I am saying. So let's not just not blame Wanny and Fiedler for them.

So you are now saying that a lot of the blame rests on Wanny's shoulders, and that retaining him is questionable? That isn't what you were saying before. :rolleyes2

 

[PhinPhreak]

Originally posted by CirclingWagons
true...and look at Billy B. how many different starters did they have this year...50? Andy Reid starts off 0-2, getting blown out at home twice, yet they end up with the NFC's top spot. Vermeil's in his 3rd year with his team, so you know what that means. I'm jealous of all those teams

Funny thing about the Bills record this year is that the only difference from last year is the two Fins losses. Switch taht around in either year and the Bills produced the same record.

Goes to show how a couple of games can change the whole apperance of a season.

 

[Keypusher]

exactly

Great post rrodr. this "x number of plays would have made us 12-4" or whatever is pure drivel. Any fan can always come up with a few plays that would have made a huge positive difference in his team's record, forgetting that there is an equal number of plays that would have made a huge negative impact.

 

[Prime Time]

Originally posted by Rrodr038
For me it comes down to one thing. A Wanne coached team always seems to lay an egg when its crunch time. Every team gets their share of bad calls against them. The difference is that a poorly motivated team lets a bad call be the difference in the game while a well coached (bellichek and parcells) team finds a way to pull it out in spite of the call. For example, after McMichael's holding penalty, we still had a shot at winning if the "vaunted" D stops Houston on one of the two or three 3rd downs. The last two years the Phins have just found ways to let big games get away from them in many different ways with FUNDAMENTAL mistakes from many different players. When a whole team gets the "whiffs" (missing tackles), when a team cannot seem to go a whole quarter without commiting a personal foul, when a both units play so inconsistently over the year you cannot just let the blame go past Wanne.

My retort to your "two plays changed the season" stuff, you have to also consider how many games we won that came down to one play. If the Jets score instead of being stopped on that goaline stand in the first game, if Fiedler doesn't scramble for a first on third and 10 or if Marion doesn't pick off Bledsoe in the endzone against the Bills, if Mcknight doesn't break that reverse against the Giants, if Madison doesn't pick off Leftwhich's pass on the final drive against the Jags, if ANYTHING went differently against the Ravens or Redskins in the fourth or in overtime and if the Jets convert a first down on their last drive in this last game we would be 3-13. You see, two plays made the difference in us not being 12-4, three plays kept us from being 7-9.

Great post man. Got me stumped. I have no reply to that, but even so. The reason Wanny is still here is because there was noone out there any better.

 

[Rrodr038]

Agreed. I don't feel it was a horrible choice to stay with him given that there are no proven winner coaches out there but I do feel that he needs a big season next year to stay after that.

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by juniorseau55
Here is the thing that primetime's young *** doesn't understand.


Everything starts with the coach and it ends with the coach. The players are like soldiers and they do as they say, the refs can only do so much to regulate the field fairly and the players can only do as much as they are told to do.



We don't need Dave back in this team, we need a different atmosphere and I hope some people agree with that.

I agree totally. Based on many things he has said that go completely against any leadership principles that are taught, I believe he has bred an attitude of mediocrity on this team.
Is everything his fault... of course not, but a large portion of it and I mean large lies directly on him.

The whole argument is pointless now however.
He's back for at least one more year.
I hope we can bring in some players that are the type of leaders that can create the intensity and aggressiveness themselves. We'll need it to overcome Dave's system and leadership style.